RED RIBBON / BOW DAY

[guyser]

Better check your facts again.

Canada is not a nation. It has no authority even over Treaty Nations.

Both sides better get it together soon. It is getting tiresome to be held hostage on land dispersed of and/or paid for many many years ago. If the FN et al have a problem, go to court and get a ruling. But to hold hostage the rest of us certainly emboldens us to love the FN's. Hey, all of us did not screw you, so dont screw us, go try and screw the gov.

And I have no real problem to native hunting and fishing rights, except..

1) want to fish yr round- put your single line in the water and have fun

2) want to hunt yr round- get your bow and arrow out and have fun,no guns allowed.

3)where hunting and fishing is denied yr round to everyone, then that means everyone.

Why isnt Canada a nation?

[Posit]

The Natives don't use a foreigner's court. If they did they could as easily go to the US and get them to issue an order for Canada to get off Six Nations' land.

You are confused. Technology doesn't belong to you just because we have a dispute which BTW Canada cannot prove ownership. If every dispute cause a party to give up technology then you would be back to throwing stones since gunpowder was invented by the Chinese and metal smelting was discovered here about 3000 years before it was discovered in Europe.

The DoJ has admitted that there is no legal definition of Canada, nor does it have a definition of Canada's boundaries. This essentially reduces Canada to a corporation without a land base and without even the authority over the Provinces. If one reads the BNA, it was clearly intended to form a federation of provinces to protect business and security interests against manipulation by the US. However, when the Queen repatriated the Constitution she did not relinquish authority and still legally holds all authority over the simple corporation of Canada. Canada is not a nation, nor does it have legal authority over the provinces, or First Nations. All First Nation treaties were made with the "Crown" and all legal, parliamentary, or institution authority comes from the Crown. The GG, the Queens representative is not only the Head of State, but also the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces.

[White Doors]

Better check your facts again.

Canada is not a nation. It has no authority even over Treaty Nations.

Canada is a federation. It is legally a Nation. If Canada is not Nation then no country on earth is.

Canada also has jurisdiction on ALL treaty nations. No treaty nations can enact laws that contravene federal laws.

It's quite simple really.

[White Doors]

Canada is not a nation, nor does it have legal authority over the provinces, or First Nations. All First Nation treaties were made with the "Crown" and all legal, parliamentary, or institution authority comes from the Crown. The GG, the Queens representative is not only the Head of State, but also the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces.

Yes, it's called a commonwealth Nation. We have the british parliamentary system. If we are not a nation nor is the UK or India etc etc.

You are either confused or purposefully being obtuse.

[Posit]

Canada being a nation was always assumed. However a recent series of emails between the Department of Justice, some legal professors and the United Nations, whereby it was discovered there is no legal basis for Canada. The research conducted puts the nationhood of Canada into serious question and instead by definition assigns the Provinces individual Sovereign authority under the Crown.

Canada is a legal myth. It has no authority over First Nations, nor the Provinces.

[Riverwind]

Canada is a legal myth. It has no authority over First Nations, nor the Provinces.

Right. You would be laughed out of any court if you showed up with such a claim. Canada exists. It enforces its laws and is recognized as a sovereign nation by all other nations. No court would ever rule otherwise.

You arguments remind me of the people who claim that income tax is unconstitutional. Some academics think their arguments have merit but whenever it goes to court the court always sides with the government because chaos would ensue if it ruled otherwise.

The Six Nation 'sovereignty' is not the same as the soveriegnty of other nations. It is a nation within the nation of Canada that may have certain rights but Canadian laws still do apply on Six Nations land whether you want to deny it or not.

The $160 million in excise taxes that GRE pays to the government of Canada is proof. GRE would never pay that money if it was not legally obligated to do so.

[Posit]

First of all I will accept your argument once you prove:

1. Canada is legally a nation and,

2. Six Nations is subject of that nation.

You must use legal documents that show that the authority of the nation of Canada (not just on the advise that some other nation recognizes Canada) and, you must show where the Confederacy Council was dissolved and the people knowingly and willingly adopted the laws and precepts of that mythical nation.

I can assure you that you cannot prove either. Now go try....

[Riverwind]

You must use legal documents that show that the authority of the nation of Canada (not just on the advise that some other nation recognizes Canada)

What legal authority could issue such documents? The British? I don't think so. There is no legal authority outside a sovereign nation. Nations are sovereign because they can enforce their laws on the territory that they claim. In a democracy, this can only happen because the people living within the territory consent to the rule by the nation. The consent of the people living in the territory makes the claim of sovereignty legitimate.

Obviously, not everyone living in the territory claimed by a nation will consent to be ruled by that nation, however, that does not undermine the legitimacy of the nation. If a sufficient number of people living in a geographically well defined area withdraw their consent then it is possible to create new sovereign nations. However, that does not mean that original nation was not legitimate.

IOW - your argument is irrelevant. Legalities mean nothing. The only measure of the legitimacy of a nation is whether the overwhelming majority of people living in the nation consent to be governed by the nation.

[White Doors]

Canada being a nation was always assumed. However a recent series of emails between the Department of Justice, some legal professors and the United Nations, whereby it was discovered there is no legal basis for Canada. The research conducted puts the nationhood of Canada into serious question and instead by definition assigns the Provinces individual Sovereign authority under the Crown.

Canada is a legal myth. It has no authority over First Nations, nor the Provinces.

Or so you would liek to believe. That does not make it fact.

Sorry.

[White Doors]

First of all I will accept your argument once you prove:

1. Canada is legally a nation and,

2. Six Nations is subject of that nation.

You must use legal documents that show that the authority of the nation of Canada (not just on the advise that some other nation recognizes Canada) and, you must show where the Confederacy Council was dissolved and the people knowingly and willingly adopted the laws and precepts of that mythical nation.

I can assure you that you cannot prove either. Now go try....

Your claim, your burden. Reverse onus of proof is classic conspiracy theory MO.

Congrats.

[Posit]

Nope. Six Nation HAS proven it and the federal negotiators haven't got an answer.

[guyser]

I will wear my Red Ribbon tomorrow. I just have to amend it a bit.

I will put a big " $ " on the front of the Red Ribbon, and when asked why, it is to support the FN's bleeding us dry and holding the common man hostage.

Would that help? It should, and fair as it gets both sides views expressed.

[Riverwind]

Nope. Six Nation HAS proven it and the federal negotiators haven't got an answer.

Probably because the federal negotiators are wondering why Six Nations is wasting time with irrelevant BS.

[geoffrey]

The RCMP can still come arrest your ass if you do anything illegal, until that changes, your not sovereign. Stop playing the little game.

This is almost, but not quite, as halarious and stupid as that one guy telling us that he uses his Six Nation's passport to travel the world.

I never want to see a Six Nation's person in our hospital, they can go to their nation's hospitals or to the States. I think they should all pitch in for their people in our prision system. They should pay international student fees in our universities and be barred from our public schools without paying the full cost.

[jbg]

Grand River Tobacco company 'volunteered' to pay a special corporate tax....

Like I said "One Six Nations' business alone contributed over $160 million to the Canadian tax base last year."

Thanks for your support!

Are you saying $160 million less would have been collected but for the Six Nations? Me thinks an equal amount of cancer sticks would have been sold in any event.

[Posit]

Everyone don your Red Ribbons for Six Nations Solidarity. Today, Feb. 28, 2007 is 1 year anniversary of the reclamation of Six Nation lands in Caledonia.

We'll be celebrating with corn soup, corn bread and traditional singing!

Happy Six nations Solidarity Day!

[geoffrey]

Celebration of criminal activity is a ridiculous move IMO.

[Posit]

The occupation is not illegal. Insofar as the province believes they own it, they have given their permission for its continued occupation. If it is considered anything in the Canadian system (although the natives claim they are sovereign and not subject to Canadian law) it would be a simple civil matter. There is nothing illegal about a civil disagreement concerning property ownership. It happens in Canada every day.

Happy Six Nations Solidarity to you too! Thanks for keeping this thread alive.

[jbg]

The occupation is not illegal. Insofar as the province believes they own it, they have given their permission for its continued occupation. If it is considered anything in the Canadian system (although the natives claim they are sovereign and not subject to Canadian law) it would be a simple civil matter. There is nothing illegal about a civil disagreement concerning property ownership. It happens in Canada every day.

Happy Six Nations Solidarity to you too! Thanks for keeping this thread alive.

I'll remember this when we discuss the Middle East and Israel's buidling of West Bank settlements.

[Catchme]

The occupation is not illegal. Insofar as the province believes they own it, they have given their permission for its continued occupation. If it is considered anything in the Canadian system (although the natives claim they are sovereign and not subject to Canadian law) it would be a simple civil matter. There is nothing illegal about a civil disagreement concerning property ownership. It happens in Canada every day.

Happy Six Nations Solidarity to you too! Thanks for keeping this thread alive.

I'll remember this when we discuss the Middle East and Israel's buidling of West Bank settlements.

Why there is absolutely nothing similar about the the 2 things?

[jbg]

Why there is absolutely nothing similar about the the 2 things?

Six Nations, and Israelis, are allegedly occupying the land of others.

[Posit]

No. It is more like Canada and the Israelis are occupying the lands of others. Palestinians have offered their political support for Six Nation's reclamation.

Six Nations however, is in a better legal position since the British kept meticulous records of their transactions. Six Nations has proven with not only the oral history but with the British records that the Plank Road was never sold, ceded or leased. The feds simply say "we think it was" but have not offered any proof so far.

There are about 3000 acres on the table that the government has offered in exchange for the turn-over of the Plank Road lands. Doesn't make sense to me that a government would make that much of an offer in negotiations if they really believed the lands were sold in 1840. As well they have admitted at the table that they realize that much of the Haldimand tract was never properly deeded and are now thinking up ways to address that problem with Six Nations. It might be a warning to anyone thinking of moving in the area to check their deeds back to the Haldimand proclamation. If they can't trace it back, it is likely not really theirs.

On the last note, a lot of development has been halted in the Haldimand tract, since they must now seek Six Nations approval, and they must be able to prove it is not under land claim. The speed of which development resumes is directly related to the speed at which our government make reasonable and acceptable offers. At the rate we are going it may not be settled for 20 years and I'm not sure the economy of the region can survive either the loss of development or the uncertainty of ownership.

[jbg]

There are about 3000 acres on the table that the government has offered in exchange for the turn-over of the Plank Road lands. Doesn't make sense to me that a government would make that much of an offer in negotiations if they really believed the lands were sold in 1840. As well they have admitted at the table that they realize that much of the Haldimand tract was never properly deeded and are now thinking up ways to address that problem with Six Nations. It might be a warning to anyone thinking of moving in the area to check their deeds back to the Haldimand proclamation. If they can't trace it back, it is likely not really theirs.

On the last note, a lot of development has been halted in the Haldimand tract, since they must now seek Six Nations approval, and they must be able to prove it is not under land claim. The speed of which development resumes is directly related to the speed at which our government make reasonable and acceptable offers. At the rate we are going it may not be settled for 20 years and I'm not sure the economy of the region can survive either the loss of development or the uncertainty of ownership.

Maybe political correctness causes the government's generosity.

[Hydraboss]

No. It is more like Canada and the Israelis are occupying the lands of others. Palestinians have offered their political support for Six Nation's reclamation.

Six Nations however, is in a better legal position since the British kept meticulous records of their transactions. Six Nations has proven with not only the oral history but with the British records that the Plank Road was never sold, ceded or leased. The feds simply say "we think it was" but have not offered any proof so far.

There are about 3000 acres on the table that the government has offered in exchange for the turn-over of the Plank Road lands. Doesn't make sense to me that a government would make that much of an offer in negotiations if they really believed the lands were sold in 1840. As well they have admitted at the table that they realize that much of the Haldimand tract was never properly deeded and are now thinking up ways to address that problem with Six Nations. It might be a warning to anyone thinking of moving in the area to check their deeds back to the Haldimand proclamation. If they can't trace it back, it is likely not really theirs.

On the last note, a lot of development has been halted in the Haldimand tract, since they must now seek Six Nations approval, and they must be able to prove it is not under land claim. The speed of which development resumes is directly related to the speed at which our government make reasonable and acceptable offers. At the rate we are going it may not be settled for 20 years and I'm not sure the economy of the region can survive either the loss of development or the uncertainty of ownership.

Oy Vai!

Hi Tsi Nukanykanun. How's that "Mohawk Warrior of the Mist" thing going for ya?

[Posit]

Oy Vai!

Hi Tsi Nukanykanun. How's that "Mohawk Warrior of the Mist" thing going for ya?

Huh?

I doubt it is generosity since 3000 acres doesn't compare to 50 very well in any reasonable way. I would suggest that maybe our government sees the 50 acres it as valuable development land and can easily give away Dunville where everything is dead. Either that or it is "hush money" being paid to the natives to see if they will keep quiet about our government's culpability.