3,500 City of Ottawa Jobs to be bilingual

[Leafless]

Stop giving them your money. Really simple.

Don't worry I'am quite aware of that one.

I just didn't tell you what I do about it.

It does? How?

It is really self explanatory.

If I walk into a store that advertises in a foreign language that I do not understand, it could mean either either two things.

One being that I am able understand that language and the second I could leave myself wide open for potential abuse, either in the way of discrimination, fraud, poor service etc.

Discrimination is discrimination. Reverse discrimination is an oxy moron.

Minority language speakers use it because it is their first tongue.

Minority language speakers can speak what ever language they choose.

But when it comes to commercial transactions or casual conversation with a stranger, the working language of Canada is the official majority English language, that ALL Canadians should be required to learn.

Reverse discrimination exists because of a preconceived hate concerning culture, language, religion etc. and that is why multiculturalism is gong to eventually fail as minority groups become more intertwined and powerful among their own kind.

I dont get your rants about the Charter either. It seems 28 or 29 Million people dont have a problem with it, but then again I havent asked them all so maybe I am off.

Canadians have never been given the opportunity to be part of the process concerning a very important amendment in their own constitution, so until we have some sort of referendum we will never know the number of Canadians who think the Charter is a corrupt, totalitarian undemocratic document. This of course is outside of federal propaganda polls.

Personally especially living in Ottawa, I have learned from personal experience the discriminatory downside of the Charter and how Quebecers have been multiplying their job fortunes (taken from the English) by the artificial spread, pertaining to unwanted, forced federal style bilingualism into provinces and municipalities out of federal jurisdiction. But with Charter rights that detrimentally override rights in cities and provinces concerning the second minority official language that should never have been given that status without another referendum to establish that status.

Why should English speaking Canadians in their own English majority speaking city and province such as Ottawa be forced to look for work in other Canadian cities because many employers are bound by federal example and undemocratic municipal bilingual policies to hire bilingual Francophone's many from Quebec.

If this condition happened in Quebec whereas English were flooding the Quebec job market, you would have riots in the street, guaranteed. It is almost impossible as it is, for a bilingual English speaking person to get any kind of job in Quebec and this includes trades people from Ontario.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

Simply because they CAN NOT. All other Canadian provinces signed the new constitution and ALL PROVINCES BUT QUEBEC LEGALLY ABIDE BY THE CONDITONS OUTLINED IN THE CHARTER, but got screwed big time because the federal government to this day as not forced Quebec to back off with the discriminatory Bill-101 otherwise known as the French Language Charter. This is what I say, only a CIVIL WAR or revolution will return Canada back to where laws are laws and all Canadians are protected by those laws and not laughed at.

Remember it was only Quebec the only province in Canada that refused to sign the new constitution but our dumb federal government included Quebec regardless (huge mistake) and gave them the same benefits of all other provinces, who did sign the constitution. (What's the reward for dumb English speaking provinces even being part of this corrupt Charter?) Quebec turns around and uses the notwithstanding clause to impose unconstitutional, undemocratic French language laws that discriminate against the English language and spirit of Canadian nationalism.

Yeah, feel free to start Canada's first civil war or revolt. Who would you revolt against? Your own gov't? If the Canadian people attack their gov't over the issue of official language, you probably wouldn't get the Queen's support, so Canada would become a republic. But with what would you revolt? Most firearms are illegal in Canada.

If you were so patriotic yourself, you wouldn't hold such a grudge against minorities.

It certainly does, even French. When I go over to Gatineau, Quebec especially in the Hull sector clerks at stores even like even Walmarts, some clerks pretend they do not understand English and promptly walk away when questioned about a product. Cashiers as soon as they find out your English speaking put their heads down and do not look at you or say anything.

This creates breeding grounds for other levels of discrimination. Do you actually suppose I would walk into a store that has signs posted in only Arabic for instance, my answer to that, stuff your store.

If you go to a Walmart in Hull, you should be culturally sensitive and try to speak French.

I'd go into an Arabic shop despite not knowing any Arabic. If I find something I like, provided I can read the price and can identify the product, I might purchase something there (provided it appeals to me). I'm sure the ethnic shops have really good prices on foreign spices.

If I walk into a store that advertises in a foreign language that I do not understand, it could mean either either two things.

One being that I am able understand that language and the second I could leave myself wide open for potential abuse, either in the way of discrimination, fraud, poor service etc.

Essentially, people working in ethnic shops still can communicate to a certain level in a domestic language (especially the younger ones because they typically do their studies in Canada). Minorities are not out to get you. You seem to not trust people doing things in other languages around you. I've been around people of different backgrounds and they would speak to eachother in their foreign language, yet I did not feel threatened by this. I'd say either become tolerant or learn everyone's language, because you'll only be getting more minorities in Canada in proportion to the population considering the low national birth rate.

You know damn well minority languages who operate sections of a city in minority languages are not doing it for the benefit of the majority but to capitalize with their own kind and gain recognition in the form of a power grab, by isolating their minority away from the majority English. High potential for discrimination again. The reverse kind though, the type that their are not any laws for--reverse discrimination from a minority.

The minorities are not out to get you. They just want to benefit from their segregated communities.

No, there is more to it than that why you were reported, but obviously you are still here and I must say, I am disappointed with the management of this site who are unable to distinguish the characteristics of a troll.

BTW- The only language police in Canada are only in the SINGLE province that incorporates a Nazi type language policy, being Quebec. LOL

I am disappointed in this site for not telling me that I've been reported.

Nazi-type language policy? Is anyone dying because of this language policy? Does anyone get death threats for not agreeing on the provincial language? Seriously, nice laugh though.

Minority language speakers can speak what ever language they choose.

But when it comes to commercial transactions or casual conversation with a stranger, the working language of Canada is the official majority English language, that ALL Canadians should be required to learn.

Reverse discrimination exists because of a preconceived hate concerning culture, language, religion etc. and that is why multiculturalism is gong to eventually fail as minority groups become more intertwined and powerful among their own kind.

I don't think minority language speakers need your permission to speak their prefered language.

Many companies (mostly in Québec and some in Ontariario and Neu-Braunschweig) use French as a working language. As long as they can submit reports to the government in either domestic language, then it's fine.

Why should multiculturalism fail if minority groups become more powerful? What's wrong with a Nation having sub-cultures?

Canadians have never been given the opportunity to be part of the process concerning a very important amendment in their own constitution, so until we have some sort of referendum we will never know the number of Canadians who think the Charter is a corrupt, totalitarian undemocratic document. This of course is outside of federal propaganda polls.

Personally especially living in Ottawa, I have learned from personal experience the discriminatory downside of the Charter and how Quebecers have been multiplying their job fortunes (taken from the English) by the artificial spread, pertaining to unwanted, forced federal style bilingualism into provinces and municipalities out of federal jurisdiction. But with Charter rights that detrimentally override rights in cities and provinces concerning the second minority official language that should never have been given that status without another referendum to establish that status.

Why should English speaking Canadians in their own English majority speaking city and province such as Ottawa be forced to look for work in other Canadian cities because many employers are bound by federal example and undemocratic municipal bilingual policies to hire bilingual Francophone's many from Quebec.

If this condition happened in Quebec whereas English were flooding the Quebec job market, you would have riots in the street, guaranteed. It is almost impossible as it is, for a bilingual English speaking person to get any kind of job in Quebec and this includes trades people from Ontario.

A referendum won't happen because the feds aren't considering agreeing on only one language.

Oh no, a Francophone might steal your job! Seriously, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the Canadian job market thirsts for bilingual candidates. Any monolingual gov't employee should be able to figure that their job will eventually require bilingualism, giving them more than enough time to learn their second domestic language in adult high schools on evenings or weekends.

English were flooding the Québec job market? The people or the language? (because with you I can't be sure). Many important jobs in Québec require bilingualism, so it's just like in Ontariario.

[Argus]

This creates breeding grounds for other levels of discrimination. Do you actually suppose I would walk into a store that has signs posted in only Arabic for instance, my answer to that, stuff your store.

If you go to a Walmart in Hull, you should be culturally sensitive and try to speak French.

Mmm. And if i suggest that a Frenchman should stop expecting service in French and should learn to speak English I'm sure that would go over real well with the language fascists of Quebec. Every time some Quebecer can't get full service in an Ottawa restaurant or on an airplane it makes national headlines and the Quebecers in parliament are thumping desks and bursting into tears, but their answer for Quebec is always to shrug and say, in effect "learn to speak the language of the majority or get out".

Oh no, a Francophone might steal your job! Seriously, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the Canadian job market thirsts for bilingual candidates.

Aside from retail outlets, and customer service reps, there is no requirement for bilingualism anywhere in Canada except an artificial one created by Quebecers in government in order to advance Quebec's interests.

[Leafless]

Yeah, feel free to start Canada's first civil war or revolt. Who would you revolt against? Your own gov't? If the Canadian people attack their gov't over the issue of official language, you probably wouldn't get the Queen's support, so Canada would become a republic.

Who needs the Queen's support to revolt?

Anyway, Canada is well on the way of becoming a republic.

'The Charter of Rights and Freedoms' has effectively allowed judicial supremacy, which undermines meaningful parliamentary politics which is the heart and soul of our monarchical heritage. Even Sec.33, pertaining to the 'the notwithstanding clause' will not and does not reflect our monarchical heritage, because again the courts will define the parameters and validity relating to its application.

We should be embracing embracing republican inspired reforms, including democratization of parliamentary procedures, proportional representation, the curtailment of the concentration of powers in the prime ministers office and a triple E-elected, equal and effective senate.

If you were so patriotic yourself, you wouldn't hold such a grudge against minorities.

I have no grudge against minorities, but I do against those who try to destabilize the unity of the country with outrageous demands and who are constantly demanding more rights from our federal government to bolster the political status of their minority.

If you go to a Walmart in Hull, you should be culturally sensitive and try to speak French.

For what real reason as I am not part of that culture. I am there for business purposes and as far as I know, like any other business if they want my money they should speak to me in the majority commercial language of Canada, English.

It is my decision where I do my business or even where I live in Canada. Everything is a business proposition as far as I am concerned and English is the official mainstream commercial language, a language all Canadians should be familiar with.

Nazi-type language policy? Is anyone dying because of this language policy? Does anyone get death threats for not agreeing on the provincial language?

YES, to both of your assertions and I will not elaborate.

Why should multiculturalism fail if minority groups become more powerful? What's wrong with a Nation having sub-cultures?

Multiculturalism has many flaws including the absence of compelling minorities to conform to the cultural characteristics of Canada and not trying to undermine these characteristics with their own. This is serious buisness.

Most nations do have sub-cultures, no problem.

Many important jobs in Québec require bilingualism, so it's just like in Ontario.

We have already covered this a few times already.

Important jobs or any kind of job in Quebec are mostly all held by Francophone's. Even pertaining to federal employment in Quebec, English speaking employees are denied their proper representation.

It is common knowledge Quebec protects its own job market. Just count the Quebec vehicles pouring over to Ontario every morning compared to the vehicles coming into Quebec at the same time of day.

What a joke!

[Kapitän Rotbart]

Yeah, feel free to start Canada's first civil war or revolt. Who would you revolt against? Your own gov't? If the Canadian people attack their gov't over the issue of official language, you probably wouldn't get the Queen's support, so Canada would become a republic.

Who needs the Queen's support to revolt?

Anyway, Canada is well on the way of becoming a republic.

'The Charter of Rights and Freedoms' has effectively allowed judicial supremacy, which undermines meaningful parliamentary politics which is the heart and soul of our monarchical heritage. Even Sec.33, pertaining to the 'the notwithstanding clause' will not and does not reflect our monarchical heritage, because again the courts will define the parameters and validity relating to its application.

We should be embracing embracing republican inspired reforms, including democratization of parliamentary procedures, proportional representation, the curtailment of the concentration of powers in the prime ministers office and a triple E-elected, equal and effective senate.

You don't need the Queen's support? You and what army will revolt? Without the right to bear arms, you can't take down the government too easily (the most aggressive Canadians become nowadays is by leading strikes).

If you were so patriotic yourself, you wouldn't hold such a grudge against minorities.

I have no grudge against minorities, but I do against those who try to destabilize the unity of the country with outrageous demands and who are constantly demanding more rights from our federal government to bolster the political status of their minority.

Minorities are not demanding more rights, because rights have already been granted. They're simply insisting that Canada live up to its multicultural and bilingual policies.

If you go to a Walmart in Hull, you should be culturally sensitive and try to speak French.

For what real reason as I am not part of that culture. I am there for business purposes and as far as I know, like any other business if they want my money they should speak to me in the majority commercial language of Canada, English.

It is my decision where I do my business or even where I live in Canada. Everything is a business proposition as far as I am concerned and English is the official mainstream commercial language, a language all Canadians should be familiar with.

They are not part of your culture, so why should they speak your language?! A little bit of appreciation towards another's culture goes a long way. This is actually taught in human resources classes in universities, so it seems that according to such experts, you'd make a terrible businessman. If businesses in Québec can make good money without guaranteeing service in the English language, then you cannot expect them to do so.

Nazi-type language policy? Is anyone dying because of this language policy? Does anyone get death threats for not agreeing on the provincial language?

YES, to both of your assertions and I will not elaborate.

Yikes, sounds like you know some dangerous people. These are not the Canadians I know (who are just like Americans, only unarmed and carry public medicare).

Why should multiculturalism fail if minority groups become more powerful? What's wrong with a Nation having sub-cultures?

Multiculturalism has many flaws including the absence of compelling minorities to conform to the cultural characteristics of Canada and not trying to undermine these characteristics with their own. This is serious buisness.

Most nations do have sub-cultures, no problem.

These segregated minorities are becoming of and forming Canadian sub-cultures because they eventually differ from the culture celebrated in the land of their ancestors. I'm for integration, but against assimilation. If a country offers two languages, you can't expect everyone to pick yours.

Many important jobs in Québec require bilingualism, so it's just like in Ontario.

We have already covered this a few times already.

Important jobs or any kind of job in Quebec are mostly all held by Francophone's. Even pertaining to federal employment in Quebec, English speaking employees are denied their proper representation.

It is common knowledge Quebec protects its own job market. Just count the Quebec vehicles pouring over to Ontario every morning compared to the vehicles coming into Quebec at the same time of day.

What a joke!

Most jobs in Québec are held by Francophones because most people in Québec are Francophone.

The reason being for the Québec vehicles coming into Ontariario everyday is because most of the good labor in the Ottawa is government related, and most of the Federal Goverment jobs are in Ottawa. There was an agreed quota for having at least 25% of federal jobs in the NCR in Gatineau, however this agreement has been hardly respected. Regardless, at least 75% of federal jobs are in Ontariario, so of course there will be more people from the other side driving into Ottawa than the other way around. If it were the other way around, say 75+% of Fedral Government jobs were in Gatineau, you'd have plenty of Ontariarian cars pouring into Québec every morning.

[Argus]

They are not part of your culture, so why should they speak your language?!

So why should I speak yours? Why should anyone?

A little bit of appreciation towards another's culture goes a long way. This is actually taught in human resources classes in universities,

There's a laugh. In any large organization, and certainly in government, by far the most incompetent department or group is HR. Government HR is notoriously incompetent, fails to achieve any of its stated goals, consumes endless time, and makes it almost impossible to hire, promote, or get rid of the people you want to hire, promote or get rid of.

If businesses in Québec can make good money without guaranteeing service in the English language, then you cannot expect them to do so.

And yet we have endless whining from Quebecers in government and Francophones in general when some mom and pop shop in the Byward market doesn't serve them in French.

Most jobs in Québec are held by Francophones because most people in Québec are Francophone.

And yet, in some federal departments, agencies and groups more than half the employees are Francophones, even though Francophones only make up about 22% of the population. I'm sure that doesn't bother YOU, of course.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

They are not part of your culture, so why should they speak your language?!

So why should I speak yours? Why should anyone?

My point was that it's a good idea to try to speak to a person in their language as much as possible, even the slightlest effort will be appreciated.

Leafless said that he wouldn't speak French in the QC because he's not of their culture, and I say that this stupid excuse can be used on either side. If someone goes to Québec, they should try to speak French, just as if someone from any multilingual country were to go to a region where a language other than their own is most spoken should try to speak the regional language. Sure, you could stay home and expect to be spoken to in your prefered language at home, but if you go to a place where another language is most spoken, it is best to put some effort in using the other language (even if it's with a phrase book, requiring no studies of the given language).

A little bit of appreciation towards another's culture goes a long way. This is actually taught in human resources classes in universities,

There's a laugh. In any large organization, and certainly in government, by far the most incompetent department or group is HR. Government HR is notoriously incompetent, fails to achieve any of its stated goals, consumes endless time, and makes it almost impossible to hire, promote, or get rid of the people you want to hire, promote or get rid of.

I never said the HRSDC was competent. I was talking about universities, and education is a provincial issue, having nothing to do with HRSDC. University professors advocate being culturally sensitive in the work place (towards people of different sexes, religions, sexual orientation, physical capabilities, and cultural background). Because Canada is a multicultural country, it is important that we respect people of different backgrounds in order to have harmony in the workplace. Not being willing to accomodate others at all makes for terrible managerial skills.

If businesses in Québec can make good money without guaranteeing service in the English language, then you cannot expect them to do so.

And yet we have endless whining from Quebecers in government and Francophones in general when some mom and pop shop in the Byward market doesn't serve them in French.

Actually, I haven't heard any of this whining. If a small scale shop can make good money operating in just one language (whether domestic or foreign), then it's fine. If they can serve clients in other languages, then they'll most likely increase revenue. That's the reason for the private sector's thirst for bilingual candidates.

Most jobs in Québec are held by Francophones because most people in Québec are Francophone.

And yet, in some federal departments, agencies and groups more than half the employees are Francophones, even though Francophones only make up about 22% of the population. I'm sure that doesn't bother YOU, of course.

Well, there's nothing I can do to change that, so I'm not going to get frustrated by this fact. If I get a job with the Federal Government, I would be counted as Anglophone AND Francophone, so I wouldn't really help lever the proportion in your favor. If most skilled applicants are Francophone, then most empoyed candidates will most likely be Francophone. The only thing Anglophones can do is make sure they have the required skills (often including bilingualism) and applying for federal positions. If most applicants are bilingual Anglophones, then most employed candidates will most likely be bilingual Anglophones.

If monolingual Anglophones are not going to persue the required skills for such positions, you might as well stop complaining about the disproportion.

[Leafless]

You don't need the Queen's support? You and what army will revolt? Without the right to bear arms, you can't take down the government too easily (the most aggressive Canadians become nowadays is by leading strikes).

What army did Quebec use in its 'quite revolution'?

Yes, strikes and unions, Quebec leads NORTH AMERICA in this regard.

Minorities are not demanding more rights, because rights have already been granted. They're simply insisting that Canada live up to its multicultural and bilingual policies.

The 'Charter' and the 'Multiculturalism Act' are fraudulent in different ways.

1.- Both were implemented without Canadians being part of the process.

2.- Quebec is a demanding key player and is the culture 'official multiculturalism' accommodates to the highest degree.

3. -But the federal government excludes Quebec from being responsible to Charter requirements. Even Quebec's immigration is handled by Quebec only, with no federal influence like in other provinces, where for instance it allows uncontrolled ethnic immigration to destroy the English cultural face of Ontario's largest city Toronto with Ottawa a close second with not only ethnics but Francophone's, while Quebec remains a PRISTINE, OFFICAL FRENCH province.

COME ON REPUBLIC OF CANADA!!!

They are not part of your culture, so why should they speak your language?

Because English is the 'official majority commercial language of ALL of Canada, that's why.

Is Quebec so far behind the times that they do not know this?

Don't you think it is kind of dumb to expect everyone to speak minority residential French just for the sake of speaking French to be nice, when virtually all of North America relevant to including Canada speaks English?

Yikes, sounds like you know some dangerous people. These are not the Canadians I know (who are just like Americans, only unarmed and carry public medicare).

You mean you never heard of anyone committing suicide over bilingualism and job loss (either in Quebec related to the English purge or the federal government) or being murdered in Quebec's 'quite revolution'?

These segregated minorities are becoming of and forming Canadian sub-cultures because they eventually differ from the culture celebrated in the land of their ancestors. I'm for integration, but against assimilation. If a country offers two languages, you can't expect everyone to pick yours.

No one ever segregated Quebec or the Aboriginals.

They choose to be segregated by their own free choice, by their own hand and have FAILED to build successful societies and in turn whine and complain and blame Canada for their failure. Go figure!

Don't be foolish Quebec has been assimilated and copycat English culture and lifestyle and entertainment into their own LANGUAGE, the only component of culture they kept (apparently) as a weapon to force Canada into supporting their society.

Regardless, at least 75% of federal jobs are in Ontariario, so of course there will be more people from the other side driving into Ottawa than the other way around. If it were the other way around, say 75+% of Fedral Government jobs were in Gatineau, you'd have plenty of Ontariarian cars pouring into Québec every morning.

You talk as if federal jobs are the ONLY jobs Quebecers come pouring into Ottawa everyday, when you know its ALL jobs, including construction and trades and sales, food industry, automotive and all others, spread across the employment spectrum in majority English speaking Ottawa,Ontario. Quebecers take many and put the English on welfare in their own majority English speaking province and you turn around and say Francophone's have not been assimilated.

I don't really know how authorities in Ontario can tolerate the financial rape, pertaining to job loss to another province, especially one that protects and has rules and regulations to protect Quebec jobs from FORIGN CANADIAN'S FROM ANOTHER PROVINCE.

What a joke!!!!

[Kapitän Rotbart]

You don't need the Queen's support? You and what army will revolt? Without the right to bear arms, you can't take down the government too easily (the most aggressive Canadians become nowadays is by leading strikes).

What army did Quebec use in its 'quite revolution'?

Yes, strikes and unions, Quebec leads NORTH AMERICA in this regard.

Québec does have more unions than anyone else, however this has nothing to do with language.

The quiet revolution had a lot to do with Québec's society's secularization. It was not only about language. All in all the quiet revolution was destructive, but socialism and language policies are two seperate things.

Minorities are not demanding more rights, because rights have already been granted. They're simply insisting that Canada live up to its multicultural and bilingual policies.

The 'Charter' and the 'Multiculturalism Act' are fraudulent in different ways.

1.- Both were implemented without Canadians being part of the process.

2.- Quebec is a demanding key player and is the culture 'official multiculturalism' accommodates to the highest degree.

3. -But the federal government excludes Quebec from being responsible to Charter requirements. Even Quebec's immigration is handled by Quebec only, with no federal influence like in other provinces, where for instance it allows uncontrolled ethnic immigration to destroy the English cultural face of Ontario's largest city Toronto with Ottawa a close second with not only ethnics but Francophone's, while Quebec remains a PRISTINE, OFFICAL FRENCH province.

COME ON REPUBLIC OF CANADA!!!

1. A referendum on every detail would drive Canada into debt;

2. Anyone who chooses to benefit from multiculturalism can benefit from it. It's up to the other Canadians to use multiculturalism to their advantage (familiarity with other cultures is good because it's knowledge, history and celebration... if you don't want to be part of the party, no one is forcing you to participate). French Canadians may be greatly benefitting from multicultural policies, because they are the most sizeable minority. The only way this could change is if another minority reaches this size, if this were to happen it would most likely be either the Italian or the Chinese Canadians, or if English Canadians actually become a minority;

3. I believe it was mentioned that Alberta is inviting Germans who work in trades to come to Alberta and continue their profession in Alberta.

There are plenty of Anglophone Caribbean and African blacks in Montréal. It doesn't change Québec's language policies, just like the Francophone Caribbean and African blacks in Ontariario don't change Ontariarian language policies. Oh no! You wouldn't want to lose your job to an immigrated French speaking negroid! Seriously, you're quite bitter.

Republic of Canada sounds nice, but unlike you, most Canadians do not feel that they need their government to be a republic.

They are not part of your culture, so why should they speak your language?

Because English is the 'official majority commercial language of ALL of Canada, that's why.

Is Quebec so far behind the times that they do not know this?

Don't you think it is kind of dumb to expect everyone to speak minority residential French just for the sake of speaking French to be nice, when virtually all of North America relevant to including Canada speaks English?

There is no official majority commercial language. English is one of the two official languages of Canada, and French is also used in Canadian commerce (and always has been). Though this is almost completely limited to Québec, it's still a legitimate commercial language.

I think everyone should try to know one or two phrases in many languages, but if one goes to Québec, it makes sense that they be expected to speak French. Going to Québec and expecting to be served in a language other than French is like doing the same in any French-speaking country. If you're lucky, you'll be served in your language, but you can't expect it.

Yikes, sounds like you know some dangerous people. These are not the Canadians I know (who are just like Americans, only unarmed and carry public medicare).

You mean you never heard of anyone committing suicide over bilingualism and job loss (either in Quebec related to the English purge or the federal government) or being murdered in Quebec's 'quite revolution'?

The Quiet Revolution is one thing, language policies are another. The only thing the Feds did was Trudeau getting involved with the October Crisis, and that was after the Quiet Revolution had ended.

Seriously though, anyone committing suicide over a language policy, I hate to say it, has serious problems beyond languages. Life is much more expensive (well, priceless for that matter) than the cost of learning a language, so anyone throwing their life away over a language policy has serious psychological issues and should get immediate counselling.

These segregated minorities are becoming of and forming Canadian sub-cultures because they eventually differ from the culture celebrated in the land of their ancestors. I'm for integration, but against assimilation. If a country offers two languages, you can't expect everyone to pick yours.

No one ever segregated Quebec or the Aboriginals.

They choose to be segregated by their own free choice, by their own hand and have FAILED to build successful societies and in turn whine and complain and blame Canada for their failure. Go figure!

Don't be foolish Quebec has been assimilated and copycat English culture and lifestyle and entertainment into their own LANGUAGE, the only component of culture they kept (apparently) as a weapon to force Canada into supporting their society.

The Aboriginals have failed at handling their resources, that's why I wish we could come up with a one-time agreement as a permanent solution with the Aboriginals. Throwing them wads of Bordens will not ease their problems.

Québec doesn't seem to be failing at their objectives.

Sounds like you don't know a thing about Québec culture. The most obvious example I can give is there are different foods typical to French-speaking Canadians that are seldom found amongst English-speaking Canadians (if they are found amongst English-speaking Canadians, they've been adopted from the Francophones). There is a lot to "French Canadian" culture, and the fact that you are unaware of this yet somehow have encountered many Francophones in the workplace means that you'd most likely be amongst the worst candidates for an HR position. French Canadians have a different behavior, different styles and different values than English Canadians (the list goes on). You seem to be quite inclusive in terms of this English-speaking world, because only the United States of America matters in terms of the English language (it's because of the USA that the English language is normally the most popular foreign language in non-English speaking countries and it's the USA who exports their culture to the world). American mass media is translated in the French language in Québec, but that is still irrelevant to English Canadian culture (or are you suggesting that American culture is English Canadian culture?).

Regardless, at least 75% of federal jobs are in Ontariario, so of course there will be more people from the other side driving into Ottawa than the other way around. If it were the other way around, say 75+% of Fedral Government jobs were in Gatineau, you'd have plenty of Ontariarian cars pouring into Québec every morning.

You talk as if federal jobs are the ONLY jobs Quebecers come pouring into Ottawa everyday, when you know its ALL jobs, including construction and trades and sales, food industry, automotive and all others, spread across the employment spectrum in majority English speaking Ottawa,Ontario. Quebecers take many and put the English on welfare in their own majority English speaking province and you turn around and say Francophone's have not been assimilated.

I don't really know how authorities in Ontario can tolerate the financial rape, pertaining to job loss to another province, especially one that protects and has rules and regulations to protect Quebec jobs from FORIGN CANADIAN'S FROM ANOTHER PROVINCE.

What a joke!!!!

Are you willing to work in such sectors? Ontario benefits from the labor. Think about all the illegal labor in the United States of America which is fueling the American economy. The illegals are working jobs that the nationals are not willing to do. If Ontario gets this labor from outside, Ontario's economy keeps strong. I've never heard of Ontarian electricians complaining that another Canadian stole their job, and it's thanks to Québécois labor in Ontariario that helps Ontariario stay on top. Besides, at least a third of teachers at Ottawan English language schools live in Québec, so this is not a language issue.

What automotive industry in Ottawa? You mean the garages? No one speaks French in those work-places to my knowledge. I can't think of any auto plants in Ottawa, I thought they were all in Southern Ontario, and if the Québécois take those jobs, they have to move to Ontario and pay Ontarian taxes because of the distance. If I were hiring salesmen at car dealership in Ottawa, I'd prefer bilingual candidates because then they could easily sell cars to a larger segment of the regional population.

There are also people with dual residence (have a foot in both provinces) and would much rather bear Québec plates in order to pay hellaciously less in car insurance, so seeing Québec plates does not tell you everything about the driver, you're just bitter.

[Leafless]

Québec does have more unions than anyone else, however this has nothing to do with language.

The quiet revolution had a lot to do with Québec's society's secularization. It was not only about language. All in all the quiet revolution was destructive, but socialism and language policies are two seperate things.

You should try reading up on the 'quiet revolution' and the FLQ concerning the hate for the British and Americans. It has every thing to do with Quebec trying to destroy Canada, all based on language and culture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLQ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiet_Revolution

1. A referendum on every detail would drive Canada into debt;

You are being of course silly suggesting there would be a referendum on every little detail.

How is that?

The U.S. does it all the time with fair representation with delegates from all independent states.

2. Anyone who chooses to benefit from multiculturalism can benefit from it. It's up to the other Canadians to use multiculturalism to their advantage (familiarity with other cultures is good because it's knowledge, history and celebration... if you don't want to be part of the party, no one is forcing you to participate).

This is not no party.

That's the whole point the federal government is forcing especially English speaking Canadians to participate in the federal view of multiculturalism and the Charter.

This would be okay if Canada was a state controlled communist country.

Sounds to me like it is.

French Canadians may be greatly benefitting from multicultural policies, because they are the most sizeable minority. The only way this could change is if another minority reaches this size, if this were to happen it would most likely be either the Italian or the Chinese Canadians, or if English Canadians actually become a minority;

Or the French who are already a minority would become a micro minority.

[Leafless]

There are plenty of Anglophone Caribbean and African blacks in Montréal. It doesn't change Québec's language policies, just like the Francophone Caribbean and African blacks in Ontariario don't change Ontariarian language policies.

It only changes Quebec's race.

Which reminds of what French radio talk show host have been saying: ' the only babies you see popping out of maternity wards in Quebec are Black and Quebecers only have themselves to blame'.

Oh no! You wouldn't want to lose your job to an immigrated French speaking negroid! Seriously, you're quite bitter.

Or loose my job to a Francophone.

Seriously, you DON'T recognize how serious the situation is, government dictating discriminatory, racist policies.

Republic of Canada sounds nice, but unlike you, most Canadians do not feel that they need their government to be a republic.

The country must become a republic.

It is really strange indeed how Quebec always shows and demonstrates disdain for the Queen and the monarchy, but love the English system for the federal power it provides to allow Quebec to abuse the system.

Our system of being a Constitutional Monarchy and Parliamentary Democracy as been abused to the point where our political system is dysfunctional. A republic would allow real democracy to rule and not by a handful of politicians.

There is no official majority commercial language. English is one of the two official languages of Canada, and French is also used in Canadian commerce (and always has been). Though this is almost completely limited to Québec, it's still a legitimate commercial language.

Obviously you don't know what a official national commercial majority language is.

It's English, get over it.

Seriously though, anyone committing suicide over a language policy, I hate to say it, has serious problems beyond languages. Life is much more expensive (well, priceless for that matter) than the cost of learning a language, so anyone throwing their life away over a language policy has serious psychological issues and should get immediate counselling.

Really doctors and psychiatrist lead the general population in suicides.

In Japan some commit suicide for simply being unemployed as they see it as a great humiliation.

Imagine how poor Canadians must feel when they loose their home, their car, their wife and kids due to a racist language policy implemented unilaterally by their own federal government.

Québec doesn't seem to be failing at their objectives.

I agree but at the expense of the rest of Canada. just check out the transfer payments and equalization payments and the many federal programs that subsidize Quebecers.

American mass media is translated in the French language in Québec, but that is still irrelevant to English Canadian culture (or are you suggesting that American culture is English Canadian culture?).

There is no suggesting at all, it is a fact that Western culture, highly U.S. influenced includes Canada.

Don't you even remember a few years back when Quebecers mocked English Canadians for wearing those boring, dull, brown or grey or black suits.

To-day Francophone's exclusively wear those boring dull, brown, grey or black business suits rather their brightly coloured, patterned clothing that they wore previously. This is only a single example.

There are also people with dual residence (have a foot in both provinces) and would much rather bear Québec plates in order to pay hellaciously less in car insurance, so seeing Québec plates does not tell you everything about the driver, you're just bitter.

No doubt there are some English speaking Ottawan's that use Quebec as a bedroom community and think they are saving money on the Quebec side but forget about the high taxes.

Quebec insurance is a bit of a bargain but then again vehicle plates are expensive.

I really don't care who drives the car, all I am saying is if the flood of cars coming from Quebec means millions of lost dollars are leaving Ottawa in the form of taxes and this should be regulated by Ontario in some form of an inter-provincial user tax. There is no real net gain to Ottawa with all that money going over to Quebec.

BTW- This is the second time you used 'bitter' to describe trying to stand up for my rights and views as an English speaking Canadian citizen. Grow up and don't be so condescending.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

Québec does have more unions than anyone else, however this has nothing to do with language.

The quiet revolution had a lot to do with Québec's society's secularization. It was not only about language. All in all the quiet revolution was destructive, but socialism and language policies are two seperate things.

You should try reading up on the 'quiet revolution' and the FLQ concerning the hate for the British and Americans. It has every thing to do with Quebec trying to destroy Canada, all based on language and culture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLQ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiet_Revolution

Yeah, there were some crazy people in the FLQ, but the FLQ consisted of a few crazy folks. The quiet revolution was a little more inclusive and was largely about religion and socialism.

1. A referendum on every detail would drive Canada into debt;

You are being of course silly suggesting there would be a referendum on every little detail.

How is that?

The U.S. does it all the time with fair representation with delegates from all independent states.

Yes, but I'm sure most Canadians would want their domestic language to be the only official language. You'd have a proportion that would be indifferent, a proportion that would want English as the only official language, a proportion that would want French as the only official language and a proportion who would want things to remain as they are, for Canada to remain "of two languages". For the referendum to pass, you'd probably need a single proportion to be at least 50% of the votes, yet there are few people who feel strongly about abolishing bilingualism alltogether, so the referendum would be a waste of money, just like some of the previous federal elections.

2. Anyone who chooses to benefit from multiculturalism can benefit from it. It's up to the other Canadians to use multiculturalism to their advantage (familiarity with other cultures is good because it's knowledge, history and celebration... if you don't want to be part of the party, no one is forcing you to participate).

This is not no party.

That's the whole point the federal government is forcing especially English speaking Canadians to participate in the federal view of multiculturalism and the Charter.

This would be okay if Canada was a state controlled communist country.

Sounds to me like it is.

The government is not forcing anyone to "participate" in anything. However, there are policies making things easier for others.

Yes, Canada is a communist country, that is why you cannot leave, your consumption is limited by monthly portions, you cannot earn beyond a certain income and you are continuously reminded of how Stalin was a great man. Seriously, sounds like you know nothing about life in a communist country, or about several other things, for that matter.

French Canadians may be greatly benefitting from multicultural policies, because they are the most sizeable minority. The only way this could change is if another minority reaches this size, if this were to happen it would most likely be either the Italian or the Chinese Canadians, or if English Canadians actually become a minority;

Or the French who are already a minority would become a micro minority.

Granted, but that's just as unlikely to happen. My point was that anyone can benefit from Canada's multiculturalism if they choose to.

There are plenty of Anglophone Caribbean and African blacks in Montréal. It doesn't change Québec's language policies, just like the Francophone Caribbean and African blacks in Ontariario don't change Ontariarian language policies.

It only changes Quebec's race.

Which reminds of what French radio talk show host have been saying: ' the only babies you see popping out of maternity wards in Quebec are Black and Quebecers only have themselves to blame'.

Ok, then Québec will be run by Francophones of a different race, due to Québec's incredibly low birth rate outside their immigrant population. By the way, Québec also has a sizeable Hispanic and Arab community. Do you suppose that once the original Québécois are replaced by the immigrant population, that they will continue to fight for bilingualism?

[Kapitän Rotbart]

Oh no! You wouldn't want to lose your job to an immigrated French speaking negroid! Seriously, you're quite bitter.

Or loose my job to a Francophone.

Seriously, you DON'T recognize how serious the situation is, government dictating discriminatory, racist policies.

Oh right, that explains Canada's extremely low unemployment rate, especially in Ottawa where it is a little bellow average the national rate. If it were an issue, the unemployment rate would reflect it, yet Ottawans regarless of how few languages they speak manage to find work. Fancy that!

In that case, if you lose your job to Mahmoud or Eduardo that's fine, but if you lose your job to Jean-François, it's hell on wheels! Seriously, would it bother you less if someone whose first language is not French yet speaks it fluently as opposed to someone whose first language steals your job? Maybe you're the one who is racist.

By the way, if a Francophone is granted your job, it's not him/her to blame.

Republic of Canada sounds nice, but unlike you, most Canadians do not feel that they need their government to be a republic.

The country must become a republic.

It is really strange indeed how Quebec always shows and demonstrates disdain for the Queen and the monarchy, but love the English system for the federal power it provides to allow Quebec to abuse the system.

Our system of being a Constitutional Monarchy and Parliamentary Democracy as been abused to the point where our political system is dysfunctional. A republic would allow real democracy to rule and not by a handful of politicians.

Tell the loyalists that they should no longer remain loyal to the Queen. I personally thought about it, and I'd much rather move to a republic than have Canada become one. Canada's constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy has humongous historic and diplomatic value. I'd much rather my Canadian passport be the property of a parliamentary democracy than of a republic, for instance. I guess it wouldn't matter to you because it seems that you couldn't care less for any country beyond Canada and the United States.

There is no official majority commercial language. English is one of the two official languages of Canada, and French is also used in Canadian commerce (and always has been). Though this is almost completely limited to Québec, it's still a legitimate commercial language.

Obviously you don't know what a official national commercial majority language is.

It's English, get over it.

Tell me what an official national commercial majority language is. Threw the string into Google "between brackets" and generated zero results. You can claim whatever you want, but if it doesn't mean anything, then of course I won't know what it is. By the way, English is the majority commercial language of Canada, granted, but it has never been put in writing by Canadian authorities, therefore it's not official.

Also, I don't have to "get over it", because I don't care which language is most used in the private sector. All I care is that those representing the Federal Government be bilingual.

Seriously though, anyone committing suicide over a language policy, I hate to say it, has serious problems beyond languages. Life is much more expensive (well, priceless for that matter) than the cost of learning a language, so anyone throwing their life away over a language policy has serious psychological issues and should get immediate counselling.

Really doctors and psychiatrist lead the general population in suicides.

In Japan some commit suicide for simply being unemployed as they see it as a great humiliation.

Imagine how poor Canadians must feel when they loose their home, their car, their wife and kids due to a racist language policy implemented unilaterally by their own federal government.

Dentists score number one in suicide. We could go on about the silliest reasons why people end their life... boredom in the workplace, they discover that they're homosexual, they lost a loved one, they listened to heavy metal / industrial music, they watched horror flicks... there is no valid reason for ending one's life, so people ending their lives over losing a job are just as silly for doing such a stupid thing. They clearly need psychological assistance.

Québec doesn't seem to be failing at their objectives.

I agree but at the expense of the rest of Canada. just check out the transfer payments and equalization payments and the many federal programs that subsidize Quebecers.

Yeah, that's costing us to sponsor Québec's socialism, which I don't personally endorse, so we can agree on this much. Has nothing to do with language policies though.

American mass media is translated in the French language in Québec, but that is still irrelevant to English Canadian culture (or are you suggesting that American culture is English Canadian culture?).

There is no suggesting at all, it is a fact that Western culture, highly U.S. influenced includes Canada.

Don't you even remember a few years back when Quebecers mocked English Canadians for wearing those boring, dull, brown or grey or black suits.

To-day Francophone's exclusively wear those boring dull, brown, grey or black business suits rather their brightly coloured, patterned clothing that they wore previously. This is only a single example.

Now I must point out one of your contradictions. Previously you were ranting about how biculturalism did not reflect the Westerners' culture, therefore you were suggesting that there are multiple Canadian cultures even amongst English speaking Canadians. Now you say that there is only one culture in all of North America outside Québec. This is completely false, because there are several fully segregated cultures in both Canada and the United States.

Culture goes beyond attire. There's also the fact that Québécois for the longest time were accountants for the most part in Canadian commerce, yet now there is a larger proportion of entrepreneurs in Québec. If they want to sell big, they have to sell to the majority. If they dress properly according to the majority business culture, then they can make money selling to people like you. This does not mean that they are losing their culture.

There are also people with dual residence (have a foot in both provinces) and would much rather bear Québec plates in order to pay hellaciously less in car insurance, so seeing Québec plates does not tell you everything about the driver, you're just bitter.

No doubt there are some English speaking Ottawan's that use Quebec as a bedroom community and think they are saving money on the Quebec side but forget about the high taxes.

Quebec insurance is a bit of a bargain but then again vehicle plates are expensive.

I really don't care who drives the car, all I am saying is if the flood of cars coming from Quebec means millions of lost dollars are leaving Ottawa in the form of taxes and this should be regulated by Ontario in some form of an inter-provincial user tax. There is no real net gain to Ottawa with all that money going over to Quebec.

BTW- This is the second time you used 'bitter' to describe trying to stand up for my rights and views as an English speaking Canadian citizen. Grow up and don't be so condescending.

Seriously, you have the same rights as any Canadian citizen, so being of a certain language does not grant you any privileges. I think you need to grow up, considering your nonsense arguments about culture and your absurd generalizations.

I'll agree that those living on the other side end up paying more taxes and don't come out ahead (unless they're students, because students don't pay taxes). Ottawa does not need to collect tax money from out of town residents working in Ottawa, because they are not requiring municipal services such as garbage pick up, fire safety and several other services (and if they do use Ottawan services, it's on a much smaller scale because it would only be during their drive in Ottawa to or from work). Same goes for provincial services for those coming from Québec because they are not using our public education.

Ottawa benefits because we get plenty of labor from people not living in Ottawa, therefore Ottawa does not need this tax money. It makes Ottawa a more prosperous city. Mexicans bring home plenty of dollars they earned on the American side of the border, yet it fuels the American economy.

[Leafless]

Oh right, that explains Canada's extremely low unemployment rate, especially in Ottawa where it is a little bellow average the national rate. If it were an issue, the unemployment rate would reflect it, yet Ottawans regardless of how few languages they speak manage to find work. Fancy that!

Your statement reflects your lack of intellect, lack of research and shows how poorly informed you are regarding federal employment statistics. And I am not going to educate you either.

But I will tell you this for what it is worth.

You can have 10,000 or 30,000 unemployed Ottawa residents and it will not show in the national or Ottawa's official unemployment rate.

It is all federal propaganda, smoke and mirrors and allows Francophone's to flood Ottawa filling phony bilingual federal and municipal and private sector jobs, while Ottawa's real English speaking unemployment rate is well HIDDEN.

In that case, if you lose your job to Mahmoud or Eduardo that's fine, but if you lose your job to Jean-François, it's hell on wheels! Seriously, would it bother you less if someone whose first language is not French yet speaks it fluently as opposed to someone whose first language steals your job? Maybe you're the one who is racist.

Well, the point is Mahmoud or Eduardo will not form any type of meaningful statistics in Ottawa's phony bilingual job base, but Francophone's will. Its got nothing to do with ME being racist but I'am simply pointing out FEDERAL RACIST POLICIES and phony bilingualism policies, resulting in a Francophone linguistic attack on Ottawa's majority English job base.

Tell the loyalists that they should no longer remain loyal to the Queen. I guess it wouldn't matter to you because it seems that you couldn't care less for any country beyond Canada and the United States.

There are not very many real loyalist in Canada anymore but simply Canadians that admire our past British history that gave us our constitution.

I care about our monarchy, but not to see it badly abused, for greed and power, starting with Trudeau and his discriminatory Charter to basically carry on the war pertaining to the 'Plains of Abraham' based on language and culture.

I prefer now to see justice administrated by Canada becoming a republic, which will in turn allow Canadians to be masters of their destiny rather than by, a handful of politicians and judges catering to corrupt politics and Quebec political ideologies.

Tell me what an official national commercial majority language is. Threw the string into Google "between brackets" and generated zero results. You can claim whatever you want, but if it doesn't mean anything, then of course I won't know what it is. By the way, English is the majority commercial language of Canada, granted, but it has never been put in writing by Canadian authorities, therefore it's not official.

Maybe just maybe you threw the wrong string into Google. Try languages of Canada.

It doesn't have to be put in writing by Canadian authorities.

All you do is look at the population statistics relating to language and figure it out for yourself.

Yeah, that's costing us to sponsor Quebec's socialism, which I don't personally endorse, so we can agree on this much. Has nothing to do with language policies though.

What do you mean? Language policies are part of the Charter, right.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

Oh right, that explains Canada's extremely low unemployment rate, especially in Ottawa where it is a little bellow average the national rate. If it were an issue, the unemployment rate would reflect it, yet Ottawans regardless of how few languages they speak manage to find work. Fancy that!

Your statement reflects your lack of intellect, lack of research and shows how poorly informed you are regarding federal employment statistics. And I am not going to educate you either.

But I will tell you this for what it is worth.

You can have 10,000 or 30,000 unemployed Ottawa residents and it will not show in the national or Ottawa's official unemployment rate.

It is all federal propaganda, smoke and mirrors and allows Francophone's to flood Ottawa filling phony bilingual federal and municipal and private sector jobs, while Ottawa's real English speaking unemployment rate is well HIDDEN.

No federal propaganda is refering to Ottawa's unemployment rate. There may be a little more than 40 000 unemployed Ottawans, and I doubt removing bilingual policies would lower unemployment in Ottawa.

Your statement lacks intellect because you provide no reason for me to believe you. I am confident that Statistics Canada does a good job at counting unemployment rates. There may be, however a greater rate of monolingual Anglophones who are currently working part time rather than full time or have trouble getting the promotions they want because they refuse to learn French which is clearly in the job description, but that doesn't mean they struggle to find employment.

In that case, if you lose your job to Mahmoud or Eduardo that's fine, but if you lose your job to Jean-François, it's hell on wheels! Seriously, would it bother you less if someone whose first language is not French yet speaks it fluently as opposed to someone whose first language steals your job? Maybe you're the one who is racist.

Well, the point is Mahmoud or Eduardo will not form any type of meaningful statistics in Ottawa's phony bilingual job base, but Francophone's will. Its got nothing to do with ME being racist but I'am simply pointing out FEDERAL RACIST POLICIES and phony bilingualism policies, resulting in a Francophone linguistic attack on Ottawa's majority English job base.

Admit it man, you're racist. Let's say Jean-François just wants a job, he has all the required skills and because he meets the job criteria better than you do they give him your job. Say he's a hard-working guy, has a family and needs the job just as much as you do. You can't blame him for losing your job, only yourself for not meeting the job description. Seriously, losing your job to another is just as unfortunate, regardless of the background of the guy taking your place. You are indeed racist.

Tell the loyalists that they should no longer remain loyal to the Queen. I guess it wouldn't matter to you because it seems that you couldn't care less for any country beyond Canada and the United States.

There are not very many real loyalist in Canada anymore but simply Canadians that admire our past British history that gave us our constitution.

I care about our monarchy, but not to see it badly abused, for greed and power, starting with Trudeau and his discriminatory Charter to basically carry on the war pertaining to the 'Plains of Abraham' based on language and culture.

I prefer now to see justice administrated by Canada becoming a republic, which will in turn allow Canadians to be masters of their destiny rather than by, a handful of politicians and judges catering to corrupt politics and Quebec political ideologies.

Justice or fairness? It is just that the government expect its representatives to be fluent in both domestic languages. It may not be fair, but out of fairness becomes communism. Justice never includes "making policies to proportionally fit the population", it means treating everyone equally, in this case expecting both languages from all applicants for federal employment. That indeed is just. It would not be just if they demanded bilingualism from certain people and not others.

Sounds like you don't care about the monarchy. If you did, you'd prefer to correct the system rather than burn it down. Guess what, the liberals were democratically elected since Trudeau (and before Trudeau as well), therefore these language policies have passed under a democratic system.

Tell me what an official national commercial majority language is. Threw the string into Google "between brackets" and generated zero results. You can claim whatever you want, but if it doesn't mean anything, then of course I won't know what it is. By the way, English is the majority commercial language of Canada, granted, but it has never been put in writing by Canadian authorities, therefore it's not official.

Maybe just maybe you threw the wrong string into Google. Try languages of Canada.

It doesn't have to be put in writing by Canadian authorities.

All you do is look at the population statistics relating to language and figure it out for yourself.

Yes it has to be put in writing to be official. There are two official languages, both being equally official. I don't see the Canadian authorities saying that one language is more official than another.

Population statistics does not make anything official. There are more people who speak Portuguese than Romansh in Switzerland, yet Portuguese is not official and Romansh is official. Unless it's put in writing, it's not official. It's like saying Canadians officially speak --insert foreign language here--. There are many who do, but it's not put in writing by the officials, therefore it has no official recognition.

Yeah, that's costing us to sponsor Quebec's socialism, which I don't personally endorse, so we can agree on this much. Has nothing to do with language policies though.

What do you mean? Language policies are part of the Charter, right.

You said:

The country must become a republic.

It is really strange indeed how Quebec always shows and demonstrates disdain for the Queen and the monarchy, but love the English system for the federal power it provides to allow Quebec to abuse the system.

Our system of being a Constitutional Monarchy and Parliamentary Democracy as been abused to the point where our political system is dysfunctional. A republic would allow real democracy to rule and not by a handful of politicians.

Sure language policies are part of the Charter. This has nothing to do with Québec's socialism and trying to bum as much money as possible from equalization. Québec is only receiving such a large portion due to its important population. Other provinces are receiving more per capita, but have much smaller populations. Equalization has nothing to do with language policies, so hating Québec for costing us tax money and hating Francophones for language policies (which you do because you're racist, I couldn't care less how you justify it) are two totally different issues. Because I am not a resident of Québec, I am not benefiting from equalization, so I too complain about Québec's socialism, yet I think it's fine for the federal government to require bilingualism from those representing a country of two languages.

[Leafless]

No federal propaganda is refering to Ottawa's unemployment rate. There may be a little more than 40 000 unemployed Ottawans, and I doubt removing bilingual policies would lower unemployment in Ottawa.

'Citation please'.

Your statement lacks intellect because you provide no reason for me to believe you. I am confident that Statistics Canada does a good job at counting unemployment rates.

Your just plain dumb and ignorant.

You are justifying claims relating to "stats Canada doing a good job at counting unemployment rate" as the last word, without knowing what they are actually talking about in the ways of Ottawa's or the national unemployment rate.

The number of unemployed in Ottawa or speakig nationally or anywhere in Canada is compiled by unemployed Canadians CURRENTLY RECEIVING EMPLOYMENT INSURANCE BENEFITS.

There could be 500,000 unemployed people in Ottawa, but if you are not currently receiving employment benefits, you are no longer a statistic and are NOT included in official unemployment numbers.

In fact no one really knows what the REAL or ACTUAL unemployment rate is in Ottawa or in fact the country.

Admit it man, you're racist. Let's say Jean-François just wants a job, he has all the required skills and because he meets the job criteria better than you do they give him your job. Say he's a hard-working guy, has a family and needs the job just as much as you do. You can't blame him for losing your job, only yourself for not meeting the job description. Seriously, losing your job to another is just as unfortunate, regardless of the background of the guy taking your place. You are indeed racist.

This site incorporates free speech and for you to label another member 'racist' is against rules of this site.

All I will admit is that Quebec incorporates racist policies making it a racist province and the Charter is a discriminatory racist document that discriminates against the White English speaking Canadian.

Discriminatory racist policies language policies creates an artificial requirement for the use a phony minority official language within a federal public service that only exist because of a tax base created by ALL of Canada's tax payers and its hiring policies should reflect that FACT.

Guess what, the liberals were democratically elected since Trudeau (and before Trudeau as well), therefore these language policies have passed under a democratic system.

Democratically elected. HA-ha-ha-ha-ha, what a joke.

I guess you are not aware that in any federal elction, 50% of the votes are wasted, they don't count for anything.

If you want to continue to support a corrupt political system, I DON'T.

Population statistics does not make anything official. There are more people who speak Portuguese than Romansh in Switzerland, yet Portuguese is not official and Romansh is official. Unless it's put in writing, it's not official. It's like saying Canadians officially speak --insert foreign language here--. There are many who do, but it's not put in writing by the officials, therefore it has no official recognition.

Well, I am saying 'officially' that the English is Canada's mainstream, majority commercial language.

And to prove its official look at Statistic's Canada's own English language numbers.

If you want to insist it is not, please provide a citation.

Sure language policies are part of the Charter. This has nothing to do with Québec's socialism and trying to bum as much money as possible from equalization.

Quebec's nationalistic concerns and the desire to be recognized as 'distinct' is one of the main reasons concerning the creation of the Charter.

You have a hard time understanding Quebec's nationalism is a natural enemy of federalism.

Quebec should practice what they preach and if they want remain aloof and nationalistic let them pay for it with their own money rather than break down our federal political system with corrupt, undemocratic demands.

BTW- Founding nations of Canada has no legal weight as the founding nations were originally Britain and France and has nothing to do with Quebec. Founding nations is only a political courtesy as France gave away all rights to Canada.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

No federal propaganda is refering to Ottawa's unemployment rate. There may be a little more than 40 000 unemployed Ottawans, and I doubt removing bilingual policies would lower unemployment in Ottawa.

'Citation please'.

Say 5% of 800 000 people are unemployed gives 40 000 unemployed people. Ottawa has a really low unemployment rate, and it could not be much lower. DC has an extremely high unemployment rate, yet they only require English as a working language. I quote:

"Full employment" does not mean 100 percent employment. For various reasons, the unemployment rate cannot be reduced to zero, if only because people are always being fired, laid off or moving between jobs. But even granting that unemployment can never be completely eliminated, it still might be possible to ensure that anyone searching for a job can find one reasonably quickly. Economists call this happy state of affairs "full employment."http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-chinairu.htm

Unemployment in Ottawa could not reach a much lower rate. There are few places in this world with unemployments lower than 5% (the odd place reaches as low as 2% unemployment, but there's nothing spectacular about Ottawa's job market that would make it the world leader in unemployment, even without bilingual policies).

Your statement lacks intellect because you provide no reason for me to believe you. I am confident that Statistics Canada does a good job at counting unemployment rates.

Your just plain dumb and ignorant.

You are justifying claims relating to "stats Canada doing a good job at counting unemployment rate" as the last word, without knowing what they are actually talking about in the ways of Ottawa's or the national unemployment rate.

The number of unemployed in Ottawa or speakig nationally or anywhere in Canada is compiled by unemployed Canadians CURRENTLY RECEIVING EMPLOYMENT INSURANCE BENEFITS.

There could be 500,000 unemployed people in Ottawa, but if you are not currently receiving employment benefits, you are no longer a statistic and are NOT included in official unemployment numbers.

In fact no one really knows what the REAL or ACTUAL unemployment rate is in Ottawa or in fact the country.

The unemployment rate includes those not receiving employment insurance benefits yet are over 15 years of age and are actively seeking employment. Those no longer seeking employment, even though they may not have a job, are no longer considered unemployed. If you include disabled people who could work, you'd probably easily hit half a million in Ottawa, but that's for another discussion.

Admit it man, you're racist. Let's say Jean-François just wants a job, he has all the required skills and because he meets the job criteria better than you do they give him your job. Say he's a hard-working guy, has a family and needs the job just as much as you do. You can't blame him for losing your job, only yourself for not meeting the job description. Seriously, losing your job to another is just as unfortunate, regardless of the background of the guy taking your place. You are indeed racist.

This site incorporates free speech and for you to label another member 'racist' is against rules of this site.

All I will admit is that Quebec incorporates racist policies making it a racist province and the Charter is a discriminatory racist document that discriminates against the White English speaking Canadian.

Discriminatory racist policies language policies creates an artificial requirement for the use a phony minority official language within a federal public service that only exist because of a tax base created by ALL of Canada's tax payers and its hiring policies should reflect that FACT.

Yeah, you too broke the rule by using insults and personal attacks towards me. A good example is cited above by calling me plain dumb and ignorant. I identify you as racist because of your racist comments. It would bother you more to lose your job to a person of a given background than of any other background, making you racist.

Oh, you will exclusively 'admit' that someone else uses racist policies... I'll admit that you're racist. We can 'admit' anything about eachother... makes sense *sarcasm*.

How can a language be phony? Sounds like you're losing it. I think it's also important that Federal Government employees know Canadian history, it's a shame such questions are not used in the screening. I'll settle on language.

Guess what, the liberals were democratically elected since Trudeau (and before Trudeau as well), therefore these language policies have passed under a democratic system.

Democratically elected. HA-ha-ha-ha-ha, what a joke.

I guess you are not aware that in any federal elction, 50% of the votes are wasted, they don't count for anything.

If you want to continue to support a corrupt political system, I DON'T.

Then if I don't want to continue to support a corrupt political system, you DO?! Our elections system is ridiculous and I propose volumocracy. Basically votes should be counted by how loud the participants are, in an American football style. Screaming, body-painting, cheering (and cheerleaders) and a zepplin (and more) would determine our future political leaders. That would be awsome and we could be the first country using such a system. Points would be counted and the party having the highest score wins the election. This would be proportional, that way those who care most about politics would go out as loud as they can, making the largest contributions towards their prefered party. I didn't elect those liberal leaders, but I sure benefit from the bilingual policies (and you can too if you want to).

Population statistics does not make anything official. There are more people who speak Portuguese than Romansh in Switzerland, yet Portuguese is not official and Romansh is official. Unless it's put in writing, it's not official. It's like saying Canadians officially speak --insert foreign language here--. There are many who do, but it's not put in writing by the officials, therefore it has no official recognition.

Well, I am saying 'officially' that the English is Canada's mainstream, majority commercial language.

And to prove its official look at Statistic's Canada's own English language numbers.

If you want to insist it is not, please provide a citation.

Ok, let's flip through the dictionary, shall we?

Official (adjective):

1. Having official authority or sanction;

2. Of or relating to an office;

3. Verified officially;

4. Conforming to set usage, procedure, or discipline;

5. (of a church) given official status as a national or state institution

Majority does not mean official.

Granted English is the majority language in pretty much everything in Canada, but it doesn't mean it should be the only language.

Sure language policies are part of the Charter. This has nothing to do with Québec's socialism and trying to bum as much money as possible from equalization.

Quebec's nationalistic concerns and the desire to be recognized as 'distinct' is one of the main reasons concerning the creation of the Charter.

You have a hard time understanding Quebec's nationalism is a natural enemy of federalism.

Quebec should practice what they preach and if they want remain aloof and nationalistic let them pay for it with their own money rather than break down our federal political system with corrupt, undemocratic demands.

BTW- Founding nations of Canada has no legal weight as the founding nations were originally Britain and France and has nothing to do with Quebec. Founding nations is only a political courtesy as France gave away all rights to Canada.

I know seperatism is a national enemy of federalism. I still see seperatism, socialism and language policies as seperate issues. I can't understand why you seem to think that seperatism, socialism and language policies are the same issue. It seems like you want to hate one big enemy and put all your frustrations into one entity. It doesn't work in this case.

I will hate socialism and seperatism with you. However, bilingual policies make sense for a government managing a country of two languages.

France may have given Canada away, yet the people in Canada chose to not change. This is quite interesting, because the 'French Canadians' never renounced being French, despite France abandoning them. Hypothetically, 'French Canadians' should have the right to claim French citizenship, because they never renounced being French. Also, 'French Canadians' have contributed to the founding of Canada, despite no longer belonging to France.

[Leafless]

Your entire above post is composed entirely of BS and incomprehensible unfounded personal opinion.

Your making it up as your going along and refuse to provide citations.

There is no sense in carrying this discussion any further based on your method of debate.

[Rue]

Well, that should ensure at least that the civil servant jobs will be held by people of superior intelligence.....

Lol. You made my day!!!! p.s. don't hold your beath.

[Rue]

[

kapitan I appreciate your well thought out and presented opinion.

[Leafless]

Well, that should ensure at least that the civil servant jobs will be held by people of superior intelligence.....

Lol. You made my day!!!! p.s. don't hold your beath.

Superior intelligence?

Seven million well educated people, controlling a superb geographic location, having access to a treasure trove of natural resources and speaking two of the leading commercial languages of the world; yet it is a "have not" province.

Maybe with a little luck and with the ADQ demanding Quebec autonomy, the ROC should comply with their wishes and allow them to be fully accountable for their own success.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

If you want a source, here's a good read: http://www.acs-aec.ca/Polls/Poll53.pdf

They refer to Stats Canada, so if you have no faith in Stats Canada, there's no point reading, there's no point quoting, there's no point even discussing anything with you. I'd gladly quote Government of Canada statistics of the population's favorable reaction towards having two official languages and so forth and so on and you'll gladly not value such references, so there's no point quoting them.

I'll gladly stop discussing bilingualism with you, Leafless, if this continues as a name-calling game, I think both of us know better than to do that (so no more calling me stupid, dumb or any of that, it's against the rules as you said anyway, so please no hypocrisy).

Also, I do not appreciate your racist inclinations. I want to make it clear that Francophone ≠ Québécois ≠ Seperatist. I am in complete agreement that Québec's socialism is a waste of money and it's costing other Canadians tax-money through equalization, but that has nothing to do with bilingual policies. A lot of Francophones are Québécois, a lot of Québécois are seperatists, yet very few Francophones are Seperatists. There happens to be many Francophones in Québec, and many of them work in Ottawa, but that has nothing to do with bilingual policies. There are plenty of Ontarians commuting to Ottawa for work, but they wouldn't phase you because they don't have different licence plates. People living in Québec and working in Ontario is a completely different issue and again is irrelevant to bilingualism. If a Francophone steals your job, that doesn't mean he's a seperatist, it just means that he's as much of a Canadian as you are, was taught the French language first and met the criteria for the job profile. If you do not see everyone as equal, then you need to learn tolerance. Even if the Francophone who steals your job increases a certain proportion, this does not mean he wrote the bilingual policies, nor does it mean that he advocates them. He may be a normal guy like any other Canadian who just happened to be looking for a job and happens to have learned French as a first language. Your complaint that this would increase a certain proportion does not justify being more frustrated because of losing your job to a Francophone as opposed to anyone of any other language.

If you are willing to consider my source I refer to this time, it shows that bilingual Canadians, especially Ontarians average higher income than their monolingual comrades. Therefore it is wise for Canadians, especially Ontarians to take their language studies in school seriously because it's as much of a good idea to persue post-secondary studies; both increase potential income.

You may not use the French language, but there are tonnes who do, and as long as plenty of people agree to use it, others can increase their potential income if they can work in that language, even if it is a minority language. There clearly is a natural demand for the French language, otherwise the private sector wouldn't demand it (they would not demand a skill if it weren't profitable). The only pressure the government can have on the private sector is the media, and they have no quotas for first language. Only skin color, sexual orientation and possibly physical disabilites. Large CRTC-licenced corporations can choose to hire only people of one language if they wish, but they have to hire enough blacks, natives, gays and maybe people in wheelchairs working for them. The CRTC is in Gatineau by the way. If you can think of a reason why I should believe that the federal government is pressuring the private sector into requiring language skills even though there would be no financial benefit for the company, please let me know.

For the Federal Government to live up to the Official Language Act, they have to require bilingualism in areas where they guarantee that federal employees can work in their prefered domestic language. If there is a Francophone/Anglophne working for the feds in Ottawa/Gatineau/Neu-Braunschweig... and chooses to report in their prefered domestic language, his/her boss has to be bilingual in order to allow this right, otherwise the gov't would have to hire two managers or a manager and a translator, meaning more money is wasted. It makes sense to expect the manager within the gov't to know both languages, in order to comply with the Official Languages Act, which means that all Canadians can request service from the Federal Gov't in their prefered domestic language and that gov't employees can report in their prefered domestic language. I'll agree that the Official Languages Act could use some editing, but now that we have it, we might as well live up to it.

Your entire above post is composed entirely of BS and incomprehensible unfounded personal opinion

Your making it up as your going along and refuse to provide citations.

Incomprehensible? I thought I explained myself clearly. I have had these formed opinions for a long while, so it's not "made up as I go". I'd quote more but the best sources I can get are gov't propaganda, which you don't value as a valid source, so there's no point quoting if you don't value such a source.

kapitan I appreciate your well thought out and presented opinion.

Thanks!

[Argus]

Most jobs in Québec are held by Francophones because most people in Québec are Francophone.

And yet, in some federal departments, agencies and groups more than half the employees are Francophones, even though Francophones only make up about 22% of the population. I'm sure that doesn't bother YOU, of course.

Well, there's nothing I can do to change that,

That, in essence, is your response to everything. To you, all that matters is everyone in all departments and agencies must speak French. No other skills are really required or important. French is all. And the fact that your own province places no importance whatsoever on bilingualism is, to you, utterly without importance. Screw the English Quebecers. You couldn't care less.

so I'm not going to get frustrated by this fact. If I get a job with the Federal Government, I would be counted as Anglophone AND Francophone,

You would be counted as a Francophone. Guaranteed. There is no slightest part of you that is Anglophone.

If most skilled applicants are Francophone, then most empoyed candidates will most likely be Francophone.

Of course, to you, the only skill is French. The fact the lifeguard can't swim is beside the point.

If monolingual Anglophones are not going to persue the required skills for such positions, you might as well stop complaining about the disproportion.

The Anglophones have the skills for the job, they just don't speak the French that the unskilled Francophones require.

[Argus]

A lot of Francophones are Québécois, a lot of Québécois are seperatists, yet very few Francophones are Seperatists

Jacques Parizeau's famous "It was the ethnics" line was actually true, and remains true today. The majority of Francophone Quebecers have always voted in favour of seperatism and continue to support seperatism. It is the Anglos and Ethnics which sway the numbers. Furthermore, polls taken have shown that even among those who vote Non, the majority have no interest or affection or even liking for Canada.

They just want our money.

There happens to be many Francophones in Québec, and many of them work in Ottawa, but that has nothing to do with bilingual policies.

Utter drivel. The requirement for bilingualism has drawn tens of thousands of Francophones from Quebec to Ottawa.

People living in Québec and working in Ontario is a completely different issue and again is irrelevant to bilingualism.

This is again utter drivel. You can go anywhere in Ottawa where there is a (usually artificial) requirement for bilingualism and see the row after row of Quebec licence plates. Without that usually artificial requirement for bilingualism few if any would be working there.

There clearly is a natural demand for the French language, otherwise the private sector wouldn't demand it (they would not demand a skill if it weren't profitable).

I have already pointed out to you there is NO demand for bilingualism in the private sector other than among customer service and retail store clerks. The federal government demands every inside clerk, manager, supervisor, messenger, security guy, IT repair guy and executive be bilingual, but that does not happen anywhere else.

For the Federal Government to live up to the Official Language Act, they have to require bilingualism in areas where they guarantee that federal employees can work in their prefered domestic language.

That is why we need to amend the Official Languages act to remove this ridiculous and artificial requirement. That would allow us to hire qualified, skilled people instead of simply those who are bilingual.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

Most jobs in Québec are held by Francophones because most people in Québec are Francophone.

And yet, in some federal departments, agencies and groups more than half the employees are Francophones, even though Francophones only make up about 22% of the population. I'm sure that doesn't bother YOU, of course.

Well, there's nothing I can do to change that,

That, in essence, is your response to everything. To you, all that matters is everyone in all departments and agencies must speak French. No other skills are really required or important. French is all. And the fact that your own province places no importance whatsoever on bilingualism is, to you, utterly without importance. Screw the English Quebecers. You couldn't care less.

My province is Ontario. I've never lived in Québec (so I don't really care about how residents of Québec or of any province other than Ontario are treated, regardless of first language... I've never lived there, most of my family is in Ontario and those who aren't Ontarian live in other countries, none having French as an official language).

I insist that federal government employees have the language AND non-language skills mentioned in the job description. You seem to think that I want to staff the gov't with incompetent bilingual people, whereas I want to staff the gov't with competent bilingual people. To suggest that bilingual people have no skills beyond languages is discriminating.

so I'm not going to get frustrated by this fact. If I get a job with the Federal Government, I would be counted as Anglophone AND Francophone,

You would be counted as a Francophone. Guaranteed. There is no slightest part of you that is Anglophone.

I'm just as Anglophone as you are. I've been fluent in both domestic languages since age two, and suggesting that someone can only be of one language is proof of ignorance. One language does not take away from another, it only adds to another. If we flip through the dictionary, I quote WordWeb

Anglophone: Someone who speaks English, esp. as their first language

That describes me, because I can speak English and I always could speak English. A language has nothing to do with political intentions and you're wrong for claiming me to not be something that I am.

If most skilled applicants are Francophone, then most empoyed candidates will most likely be Francophone.

Of course, to you, the only skill is French. The fact the lifeguard can't swim is beside the point.

Sounds like you're proving ignorance to me. As I said, I would prefer that the best candidates be hired. If I'm staffing pools in Ottawa, I'll prefer bilingual candidates because it would be a useful skill (amongst other skills). If I find a really good monolingual candidate, I'd try to have the candidate relocated to an area where an insignificant number of swimmers speak the minority language of that region.

If monolingual Anglophones are not going to persue the required skills for such positions, you might as well stop complaining about the disproportion.

The Anglophones have the skills for the job, they just don't speak the French that the unskilled Francophones require.

Then what do the skilled Francophones require? Or do you not consider that to be a possibility?

Seriously, you need to realize that there are skilled Francophones. You should also know that I believe that the government cannot make use of candidates who have absolutely no skills beyond languages and who are terrible learners. There are some government jobs where pretty much all non-language skills could easily be learned on the job. Most government jobs require skills that cannot be learned on the job, therefore it is essential that candidates have these skills before they apply. Yet if they are to represent an institution of two languages, they should properly represent it by knowing both languages.

There's no point continuing this discussion with you if you suggest that Francophones have no skills beyond languages and if you claim that I am any less of an Anglophone than you are. Both are proofs of your ignorance (not to mention that you suggest that I am from Québec, which is also largely inaccurate).