Adam DePrisco & the Ianieros'

[Shakeyhands]

Another death in Mexico that seems odd with questions around what really happened.

With the help of a large and close family, they have made dozens of phone calls to Mexican and Canadian authorities, but still don't believe their son's death is getting the attention it deserves.

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/169535

Edward Greenspan said the only way to move the investigation forward is if Canada's justice minister urges his Mexican counterpart to remove the regional attorney general from the case and personally take on the file. "It's a very frustrating, upsetting kind of investigation that requires some intervention by our federal government," Greenspan said.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/03...1471517-cp.html

These two cases are very interesting, at what point does a government have to step in to a situation like either of these? We know McKay had something to say about the Ianieros' murder investigation -

"We put considerable weight on the co-operation of the Mexican officials and Prime Minister Harper's involvement and that of (Mexican) President Fox demonstrate that both governments are taking the investigation extremely seriously."

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...s_name=&no_ads=

Is there a burden on our Government to demand changes or investigations in a foreign country?

[Riverwind]

Is there a burden on our Government to demand changes or investigations in a foreign country?

It goes two ways. China is not pleased with the Canadian handling of this case. Does that mean they have a right to interfere in our justice process.

The only thing the Canadian gov't can do is threaten to issue a warning to Canadian tourists about Mexico and the apparent incompetence of its police force.

[blueblood]

Is there a burden on our Government to demand changes or investigations in a foreign country?

It goes two ways. China is not pleased with the Canadian handling of this case. Does that mean they have a right to interfere in our justice process.

The only thing the Canadian gov't can do is threaten to issue a warning to Canadian tourists about Mexico and the apparent incompetence of its police force.

Or an ad campaign slamming mexico and its police force. A country like that will only take this issue seriously and fix it when its industry takes a nice hit and is embarrassed on the world stage.

[Fortunata]

I think the Canadian government has been too light on the Mexican government. It doesn't have to be a ball buster but it could have more teeth than, gee, I think the Mexican co-operation has been good and THEY SAY they are taking it extremely seriously. Why do we have to pussyfoot around, just come out and say there are serious concerns about the way this is being handled and they are worried about Canadian tourists going to a country where this kind of police work prevails?

[mikedavid00]

Is there a burden on our Government to demand changes or investigations in a foreign country?

Well I was listening to the aunt on the radio today.

She went to Mexico. The Canadian consulate did NOTHING. They did not meet her at the airport, did not give offer her representation. The Mexican officials did nothing. She happened by luck to know someone someone son and friend of a friend who lived there that was able to take her to the airport.

She is now back here in Toronto, family crying in the background on the phone call on the radio. She has not been contracted by our local police, RCMP, or gov't once. She has not been offered legal representation once. She has not even contacted offiacials yet. It's just a story between family and media at this point with Canadians doing nothing to help.

Basically, in true modern Canadian style of self-hatred, we are letting our own sit and rot just like we do our healthcare system.

We don't look after our own people anymore.

[Fortunata]

We don't look after our own people anymore.

I don't think we ever have consistently, only if it's high profile and/or it could gain the governing party votes.

[mikedavid00]

We don't look after our own people anymore.

I don't think we ever have consistently, only if it's high profile and/or it could gain the governing party votes.

I doubt it was always like this though.

Then I remember the tainted blood scandal with hep a. That was terrible and the gov't didn't want to pay out a dime. Also the HIV victims from tained blood.

But Arar? He's a hero! Let's make him a millionair!

[geoffrey]

You accept the risks travelling in a foreign country. Canada has no right to interfer in the domestic affairs of Mexico. It's not like this was a State planned hit, it was random criminal violence, which isn't our responsibility. I fear it's already cost us way too much money.

Bringing this criminal to justice does nothing for Canada, let the Mexicans deal with their own crime issues, on their own dollar.

[Shakeyhands]

What though Geoffrey if it was your parent or sibling? How much is too much money for justice to be served? Interesting perspective...

No advisory at all for Mexico....

http://www.voyage.gc.ca/main/sos/ci/all-en.asp

Lots of info on trade though.

You'd think at this point there would be some sort of verbage around these situations or crime in general?

[mikedavid00]

You accept the risks travelling in a foreign country. Canada has no right to interfer in the domestic affairs of Mexico. It's not like this was a State planned hit, it was random criminal violence, which isn't our responsibility. I fear it's already cost us way too much money.

Bringing this criminal to justice does nothing for Canada, let the Mexicans deal with their own crime issues, on their own dollar.

I agree. The kid was 19 year old 'Italian' (Canadian born who thinks he's Italian) from woodbridge. Heavily populated Italian area in the GTA. He went to the club district, danced with some local chick who had a husband, then got in a fight on the dancefloor then took it outside where he got killed down the street. The Mexican's are saying it was a 'car accident'. The doctor at the hosptial said it was damage with a metal stick or rocks which were seen close by.

He was being a tough guy looking for trouble and he found it.

Regardless, our embassy should be involved in this issue. It's a death for God sakes. Atleast meet the family at the air port. Our police should be contacting the family at least. It's a death in an international country. Our gov't has done absolutely nothing, yet rewards Arar who is a cheater and liar $37,000,000 of our tax dollars.

I agree, I don't feel our tax dollars should pay for this at all. So far nothing has been spent. And I certainly don't want this to be a political issue. I just want our gov't/police/embassy to give a phone call. That's all.

[mikedavid00]

You'd think at this point there would be some sort of verbage around these situations or crime in general?

There was an isolated incident last year out of a MILLION people from Canada that travel to Mexico.

Now there is another incident.

Both issues are from Italians in Woodbridge looking for trouble.

Go on vacation, stick to your resort, enjoy the free drinks. Don't do dumb things and look for trouble.

Now we're like 'Did you know the police in second and third world countries are corrupt?' Of course they are.

ANd this one person went to the same resort as the Ionaro's last year and said that Canadians were 'well hated.'. That's good, then DON'T GO! Why the hell are you looking for trouble and going to the VERY SAME resort where the Ionaro's were killed.

[Shakeyhands]

Its funny you know, I never for a second thought about it being the fact that they are 'Italian from Woodbridge' and looking for trouble... it all makes so much sense now.

[RTG]

I just want to say that I am utterly disturbed by you, shakeyhands and mikedavids, about your comments regarding the Adam De Prisco case. I am Italian-Canadian and am extremely offended by your last replies to this topic. So what if he's from Woodbridge? Even if he was dancing with someone's girlfriend? Did he deserve to die? Consider the fact that this little guy, 5'3" in height, at the last moments of his life was alone, surrounded and beaten by 15 people. Have some compassion, regardless of his cultural background or where he may live in Canada. It goes to show that racism in this country is not on its way out and a good example is people like you two. Although I do not wish this on anyone, if it was your brother, son or best friend that wasn't coming home, I'm sure you'd feel the same way. The topic of this forum deals with the way the case is being handled, not about him dancing with a local, being Italian, or being from Woodbridge. What if your friend was killed and you knew he was beaten, not hit by a car. What if the doctor's laughed in your face?

You should be ashamed of yourselves for your comments. A good analogy would be the discussion of who committed a particular crime and saying, "oh, it was a black person from a rough neighbourhood, now it makes sense". You think because you're talking about Italians it's ok to say stuff like that? You should go get yourself checked out and talk to a professional because you two are racists and frankly, you disgust me.

[Fortunata]

I think you people are missing the point. Well, two points. Mexico has shown with the Ianeiro murders that they are willing to blame innocents, or whatever they have to do, to cover up Mexican culpability to keep their tourist count up. This case is no different. The other point is that Canadian governmental authorities do not help by giving cudos to the Mexican system, a system that has shown itself to be corrupt and flawed.

Yes, you need to take responsibility for your own safety in foreign countries but sh*t happens sometimes no matter where you are. How much does it cost for a phone call from an embassy or a visit? Should the Canadian government not take seriously two coverups in a place where Canadians flock? Should there not be concerns about this? When should they be concerned; maybe when it's YOUR relative or friend or even you?

[Shakeyhands]

I just want to say that I am utterly disturbed by you, shakeyhands and mikedavids, about your comments regarding the Adam De Prisco case. I am Italian-Canadian and am extremely offended by your last replies to this topic. So what if he's from Woodbridge? Even if he was dancing with someone's girlfriend? Did he deserve to die? Consider the fact that this little guy, 5'3" in height, at the last moments of his life was alone, surrounded and beaten by 15 people. Have some compassion, regardless of his cultural background or where he may live in Canada. It goes to show that racism in this country is not on its way out and a good example is people like you two. Although I do not wish this on anyone, if it was your brother, son or best friend that wasn't coming home, I'm sure you'd feel the same way. The topic of this forum deals with the way the case is being handled, not about him dancing with a local, being Italian, or being from Woodbridge. What if your friend was killed and you knew he was beaten, not hit by a car. What if the doctor's laughed in your face?

You should be ashamed of yourselves for your comments. A good analogy would be the discussion of who committed a particular crime and saying, "oh, it was a black person from a rough neighbourhood, now it makes sense". You think because you're talking about Italians it's ok to say stuff like that? You should go get yourself checked out and talk to a professional because you two are racists and frankly, you disgust me.

RTG I think you missed my sarcasm, I was pointing out what an incredibly stupid point that was. Responses like that are typical of MikeDavid, he is a true racist in my opinion. Sorry you missed it.

[Santino]

You accept the risks travelling in a foreign country. Canada has no right to interfer in the domestic affairs of Mexico. It's not like this was a State planned hit, it was random criminal violence, which isn't our responsibility. I fear it's already cost us way too much money.

Bringing this criminal to justice does nothing for Canada, let the Mexicans deal with their own crime issues, on their own dollar.

I agree. The kid was 19 year old 'Italian' (Canadian born who thinks he's Italian) from woodbridge. Heavily populated Italian area in the GTA. He went to the club district, danced with some local chick who had a husband, then got in a fight on the dancefloor then took it outside where he got killed down the street. The Mexican's are saying it was a 'car accident'. The doctor at the hosptial said it was damage with a metal stick or rocks which were seen close by.

He was being a tough guy looking for trouble and he found it.

...

Mikedavid... I must say that im disgusted and deeply angered by the racist views evident in your comments.

I'm not quite sure what your problem is, with Italians, or Italians from Woodbridge in particular, but I must inform you that your views are deeply misguided. Please explain to me how a happily married couple enjoying their stay at a popular tourist destination, having their throats slit the day before their daughters wedding , is "looking for trouble" ? Or how a 19 year old boy vacationing in Mexico with his best friend, being beaten to death in the prime of his life, for apparantly dancing with a woman, is looking for trouble? You seem so sure from your comments that these people got what was coming to them, may I inquire as to where you get your information. Considering you cannot even spell "Ianiero" im guessing your not familiar with the case at all. Perhaps you knew Domenic and Nancy Ianiero personally? Did you know Adam DePrisco personally? If not, then perhaps you should stay away from your overgeneralizations about Italians, your racist comments are unwelcome, and unappreciated. In a country with approximately 1.5 million Italians, it's a wonder that you yourself havent gotten into any trouble, because with comments like those, you seem to be looking for it. Perhaps you would change your tune, if it were your son, or parents, murdered in a foreign country.

Ill put it to you plainly...You are a racist, insensitive prick. **** off, and have a nice day.

[blueblood]

Personally I believe that the mexicans should conduct their investigation with RCMP oversight. If the RCMP find something wrong or corrupt, they can make a public report and the powers that be in Canada can slam the Mexican police and government which in turn might hurt tourism. Other than that there's not a heck of a lot we can do. I will say this, if that bar was in Canada, they would be in some hot water.

Now look at it this way, what if a Mexican who was vacationing at Lake Louise was killed at a nightclub in Calgary? I wonder what the response would be to that?

Now I don't care if your pink blue purple or brown, one thing I learned growing up in Small town Canada is that when you go to a place that's out of your ''Territory" you better be ready for anything and treat the locals with respect. I've seen time and again back in the day young punks from across the border coming to the local bar, acting like tough guys, hitting on local girls with local boyfriends and time and again the young punks get their clocks cleaned out. Don't get me wrong, killing somebody is just plain wrong. I've also seen people from my town go somewhere else and the same thing happens to them. Just because you are a patron in a bar doesn't give you any special rights.

Now I don't know enough of this case to put down any concrete judgement. Was the girl alone when he "picked her up" or was he being a smart ass and doing it in front of her husband? I don't know. Could the kid have realized he was in hot water off the bat and got the hell out of there or was he being tough? I don't know.

The point I'm trying to make is that your safety at a bar or in another country is not guaranteed. It doesn't take much to cause trouble in a bar, trying to pick up someones wife is a good way to start trouble. How many people have been seriously hurt or killed at Canadian bars? Should we get all wound up because it happened in Mexico? I know for sure it could have just as easily happened here. I think Geoffrey has got it bang on here.

[Shakeyhands]

I think you are missing the point to a certain extent. I do not necessarily have an issue with the fisticuffs portion of the scenario (nor do I condone that for any reason), but rather with the incompetent** police force and attorneys who would rather sweep it under the rug instead of risking an impact to tourism.

** In the DePrisco case, this isn't proven, I think in the Ianieros' case it is.

[mikedavid00]

You think because you're talking about Italians it's ok to say stuff like that?

Italians themselves will be the first to point out that the young kids full of testosterone are known to cause trouble at bars and clubs downtown Toronto. It was a concern by their city council saying 'people from outside Toronto from area's like WOODBRIDGE are coming to downtown Toronto clubs and starting fights. Making it unsafe.

It's a know thing here in Toronto and with Italians.

I'm from a Lebanese background. When me and my leb friends went out clubbing at that age in Ottawa, we caused trouble and got in fights. We were punks. The saying 'crazy Leb' doens't come out of the thin air. Those from the Ottawa area that go to clubs know what I''m talking about. Groups of Italians taht age from Woodbrige who go clubbing downtown are known to cause trouble.

I've been to clubs more times than I can count. You don't go hitting on women and grabbing them - ESPECIALLY when you are in another country. You are asking for trouble.

You don't go down to Mexico, meet with drug cartel, and say that you are interested in buying property to setup hotels. That is a sure fire way to get you killed.

And in early posts, if ANYTHING, *I* was the one who was defending his family and critisizing our gov't for not even making a phone call to the family. It was *me* who has supported this guy the most.

But does it suprise me that it was an Italian (wannabe) from Woodbridge who would do this outrageous things in another country at 19 years old? Of course not. I was one of them at one time so know a bit about these things.

And as a side note, you aren't Italian, he was not Italian. You are Canadian with Italian bloodlines. Get used it. I have a Lebanese background, but am Canadian. I'm not racist for any people of Italian decent. I like them. They are hard working people that helped build Canada (unlike south asians and other immigrant-only groups who are just utilizing an over easy system (fact)).

[blueblood]

I think you are missing the point to a certain extent. I do not necessarily have an issue with the fisticuffs portion of the scenario (nor do I condone that for any reason), but rather with the incompetent** police force and attorneys who would rather sweep it under the rug instead of risking an impact to tourism.

** In the DePrisco case, this isn't proven, I think in the Ianieros' case it is.

CTV

Not sure what "fisticuffs" means but if it means getting your ass kicked for screwing around then I definetely condone it.

From the look of things their police force is a joke and its up to the Canadian MSM and government to call on it for the joke it is. There are many places to go and vacation at, if a message is sent that since your police force is a joke so your tourist industry will suffer, maybe they will fix their police force.

Also one can't make the Mexicans stop commiting crime, if they want to live like wild animals there isn't much we can do about it. Just because we are Canadians in another country doesn't make us entitled to anything, we aren't diplomats.

[mikedavid00]

Mikedavid... I must say that im disgusted and deeply angered by the racist views evident in your comments.

They were not racist, just stereo types. Big difference.

I'm not quite sure what your problem is, with Italians, or Italians from Woodbridge in particular

Nothing. I was pointing out that Italians that are young from that area are known to look for trouble and cause fights in Toronto clubs. It's generally accepted as a fact.

, but I must inform you that your views are deeply misguided. Please explain to me how a happily married couple enjoying their stay at a popular tourist destination, having their throats slit the day before their daughters wedding , is "looking for trouble" ?

Well. When you go around a cartel controlled area of Mexica asking around on the streets for property to build a resort, it's as good as a death wish. He should have went as a tourist, enjoyed the weddings, and came home. He should not be doing business with Mexican's or any poor country for that matter. If he does, those can be the consequences.

Or how a 19 year old boy vacationing in Mexico with his best friend, being beaten to death in the prime of his life, for apparantly dancing with a woman, is looking for trouble?

I'm sorry. That was definately looking for trouble. Thinking that your invincable. People get killed for similar things in CANADA all the time. I'm sure the Mexican's didn't really mean to kill him. Mexican's of the worst kind are big believers in God and faily religious as a people. Just like the kid got carried away, so did the people who attacked him. Both were mistakes. One isn't alive though.

Don't expect justice.

You seem so sure from your comments that these people got what was coming to them, may I inquire as to where you get your information.

No one deserves to die over these littel disputes. But it's not a great suprise under all the circumstances. Even here in Canada it's not unconceavible that someone dies over the very same thing happening. And it does happen each year in Canada.

Considering you cannot even spell "Ianiero" im guessing your not familiar with the case at all. Perhaps you knew Domenic and Nancy Ianiero personally? Did you know Adam DePrisco personally?

I am familiar with both cases. Naturally both parties are being screwed over by Mexican officials. My stance is, "what do you expect?". I mean that respectfully. Really, waht do you expect from Mexico? A fair and just investigation? When you visit these corrupt countries, and put yourself in harms way, like both Ianiero and DePrisco did, it's just not suprising what happened did.

If not, then perhaps you should stay away from your overgeneralizations about Italians

I consider the Ianiero's Italian Canadians, but I certainly don't consider the 19 year old Italian.

, your racist comments are unwelcome, and unappreciated. In a country with approximately 1.5 million Italians, it's a wonder that you yourself havent gotten into any trouble, because with comments like those, you seem to be looking for it.

Lol.. Is that a threat? Italians in Ottawa were afraid of the Lebs. We outnumbered them easily but they were friends with us and cool.

Perhaps you would change your tune, if it were your son, or parents, murdered in a foreign country.

I would not change my tune. When my son joins the army, it won't be a 'shock' if he dies. If I have a kid that obviously thinks he's invincible, is a trouble maker, and let him go to Mexico while he's at a club causing trouble and trying to pick up some locals wife, then again, I won't be 'schocked'.

Ill put it to you plainly...You are a racist, insensitive prick. **** off, and have a nice day.

Oh the anger. Oh the rage.

"One of our own died". I feel strongly about this not becuase he was a Canadian, because he was "one of our own!". He was part of a.. family..... an.. ITALIAN FAMILY. Because "I'm ITALIAN!" Canadians who die waiting for ogan transplants? Meh.. I don't care. But by God, don't say anything about...

Italians!

We ain't Canadians, We are Italians!

My origional response to the topic supporting the family:

Well I was listening to the aunt on the radio today.

She went to Mexico. The Canadian consulate did NOTHING. They did not meet her at the airport, did not give offer her representation. The Mexican officials did nothing. She happened by luck to know someone someone son and friend of a friend who lived there that was able to take her to the airport.

She is now back here in Toronto, family crying in the background on the phone call on the radio. She has not been contracted by our local police, RCMP, or gov't once. She has not been offered legal representation once. She has not even contacted offiacials yet. It's just a story between family and media at this point with Canadians doing nothing to help.

Basically, in true modern Canadian style of self-hatred, we are letting our own sit and rot just like we do our healthcare system.

We don't look after our own people anymore.

What I WILL NOT DO, is turn this into a MULTI-CULTURAL TRUDEAU ISSUE OF JUSTICE. Our gov't let the family down.

But the fact that these were Italian background Canadians should have NOTHING to do with the issue which you TWO HAVE TURNED THIS ISSUE INTO.

[Argus]

Is there a burden on our Government to demand changes or investigations in a foreign country?

It goes two ways. China is not pleased with the Canadian handling of this case. Does that mean they have a right to interfere in our justice process.

China is a shit-hole country with no real law, justice or integrity. It's run by murderers and thieves. Comparing their sniveling about something in Canada to our legitimate interest in the well-being of our citizens abroad is ridiculous.

The only thing the Canadian gov't can do is threaten to issue a warning to Canadian tourists about Mexico and the apparent incompetence of its police force.

Everything in Mexico is incompetent. It is the ultimate shit-hole country, with incompetent and corrupt officials and workers at every level. I think that Canadians should be made aware that when they go to these kinds of countries they are going to lawless, barbarous areas where anything can be done to them. I think all travel agencies should be required to warn travelers who want to go to places like Mexico of the dangers of traveling in shit-hole countries where there are basically no laws to protect them.

[blueblood]

You think because you're talking about Italians it's ok to say stuff like that?

Italians themselves will be the first to point out that the young kids full of testosterone are known to cause trouble at bars and clubs downtown Toronto. It was a concern by their city council saying 'people from outside Toronto from area's like WOODBRIDGE are coming to downtown Toronto clubs and starting fights. Making it unsafe.

It's a know thing here in Toronto and with Italians.

I'm from a Lebanese background. When me and my leb friends went out clubbing at that age in Ottawa, we caused trouble and got in fights. We were punks. The saying 'crazy Leb' doens't come out of the thin air. Those from the Ottawa area that go to clubs know what I''m talking about. Groups of Italians taht age from Woodbrige who go clubbing downtown are known to cause trouble.

I've been to clubs more times than I can count. You don't go hitting on women and grabbing them - ESPECIALLY when you are in another country. You are asking for trouble.

You don't go down to Mexico, meet with drug cartel, and say that you are interested in buying property to setup hotels. That is a sure fire way to get you killed.

And in early posts, if ANYTHING, *I* was the one who was defending his family and critisizing our gov't for not even making a phone call to the family. It was *me* who has supported this guy the most.

But does it suprise me that it was an Italian (wannabe) from Woodbridge who would do this outrageous things in another country at 19 years old? Of course not. I was one of them at one time so know a bit about these things.

And as a side note, you aren't Italian, he was not Italian. You are Canadian with Italian bloodlines. Get used it. I have a Lebanese background, but am Canadian. I'm not racist for any people of Italian decent. I like them. They are hard working people that helped build Canada (unlike south asians and other immigrant-only groups who are just utilizing an over easy system (fact)).

And I used to be one of the crazy locals at a bar who would chase guys like yourself and the woodbridge boys out of town for starting trouble. I can justify with the locals wanting to beat up DePrisco, beating him up. They should not have killed him that was low. The cops should not have covered it up that's not good either. This must not have been that big of a bar if the boyfriend had that much pull over there and could muster that much back up that fast. The small bars are the ones you DON'T mess around in.

[mikedavid00]

And I used to be one of the crazy locals at a bar who would chase guys like yourself and the woodbridge boys out of town for starting trouble. I can justify with the locals wanting to beat up DePrisco, beating him up. They should not have killed him that was low. The cops should not have covered it up that's not good either. This must not have been that big of a bar if the boyfriend had that much pull over there and could muster that much back up that fast. The small bars are the ones you DON'T mess around in.

I'm sure the killing was an accident. There could have been a group at some larger clubs. I understand that there's some super huge clubs there.

I wouldn't know though, I don't travel to those places and go outside the resort for safety reasons. If I did, I know the rules of the game.

We all know the types that think their invincible and start trouble. When I heard the story, I honestly thought, man that kid did it to himself.

Again, I'm sure they didn't MEAN to kill him. They probably thought they would beat him with a stick and kick him on the ground. If they wanted to kill him they just would have shot/stabbed him.

And no, it's no suprise that the corrupt mexican's are covering up the story saying it was a car accident.

But what did you expect?

(PS - the reason why I don't go sky-diving or white water rafting, or even on low budget amusement rides anymore is because I decided I have bad luck and it's not good to put myself in harms way on purpose. People die every year from one of the above, so why should I play that lottery of death?).

On My honey moon, I'm going to France, not Brasil like I always dreamed. My safety comes first.

[denloden]

I have a Lebanese background, but am Canadian. I'm not racist for any people of Italian decent. I like them. They are hard working people that helped build Canada (unlike south asians and other immigrant-only groups who are just utilizing an over easy system (fact)).

Mikedavid00, my friend... and exactly what were the great Lebanese contributions to Canada? LOL