Elizabeth May, The Green Party Grabbing into CPC Territory?

[Catchme]

Though Elizabeth May lost her seat bid in the recent London North by-election, her campaigning showed that perhaps the Green Party are trying to move into the CPC camp to steal votes from the social -conservatives. As they have certainly stepped out of the "progressive veneer" they had adopted.

One wonders though if there are enough social -conservatives that believe in environmental issues to make it worth their while? Because Progressives will be leaving the Green Party in droves.

http://tinyurl.com/t8xal

http://www.breadnroses.ca/forums/viewtopic...t=19154&start=0

http://blog.greenparty.ca/en/node/406#comment

[Canadian Blue]

Surprising to say the least. I'm glad that she is atleast open about her opinion's, and to be honest it makes me more likely to vote for her knowing that she stands up for what she believes in.

[Catchme]

Si is that a yes the Greens are trying to move into CPC territory?

I am not sure, from what May said, if I know what she stands for, what do you think she does?

[Ricki Bobbi]

Si is that a yes the Greens are trying to move into CPC territory?

I am not sure, from what May said, if I know what she stands for, what do you think she does?

The Greens had similar social policy positions in the last election.

Interesting how one of the articles you posted supporting your contention that *Progressives* will be leaving the Green Party in droves has the following quote in it.

Ms. May's policy position, as far as it goes, is the one that the broad Canadian middle supports, and I regard it as the right one.

So the vast majority of the Canadian middle supports her stance on abortion but *Progressives* will be leaving the greens in droves as a result of that stance?

Please explain the contradiction.

[Catchme]

Please explain the contradiction.

You quoted an opinion of someones, that the vast majority were in the middle, so what contradiction are you speaking of? An opinion of the "mushy middles" opinion?

Plus, there is NO "mushy middle" on the matter of rights with progressives.

[Ricki Bobbi]

You quoted an opinion of someones, that the vast majority were in the middle, so what contradiction are you speaking of? An opinion of the "mushy middles" opinion?

Plus, there is NO "mushy middle" on the matter of rights with progressives.

Who are these *progressives* in you opinion?

How have you defined them?

What percentage of the electorate do they make up?

Most importantly, how did they vote in January?

[Catchme]

You quoted an opinion of someones, that the vast majority were in the middle, so what contradiction are you speaking of? An opinion of the "mushy middles" opinion?

Plus, there is NO "mushy middle" on the matter of rights with progressives.

Who are these *progressives* in you opinion?

How have you defined them?

What percentage of the electorate do they make up?

Most importantly, how did they vote in January?

In order, though it is a tad off topic, but for the interest of speaking from the same page on what means what I will answer:

Progressives = Environmental concerns are a priority, equality rights are not up for debate and are a priority to acheive, woman's right to self determination is not up for debate on any level, good governance that is responsible to the people it represents, misogyny, racism and bigotry are societal ills that need to be addressed, anti-war, and I suppose in this day and age electoral reform when combined with the above.

At least 50%

Bloque, Liberal, NDP and Green.

[madmax]

Surprising to say the least. I'm glad that she is atleast open about her opinion's, and to be honest it makes me more likely to vote for her knowing that she stands up for what she believes in.

That is the intent isn't it.

[madmax]

Si is that a yes the Greens are trying to move into CPC territory?

I am not sure, from what May said, if I know what she stands for, what do you think she does?

May has said, as clear as mud, that she supports those who speak out against abortion. That she supports her parties position of choice.

Ta Da.

[madmax]

Who are these *progressives* in you opinion?

Progressives are often fiscally conservative minded individuals without the Social Conservative Values. When the PCs and CA joined together, those that felt they had no home, joined all other parties, and also fringe parties that don't get alot of attention. These can be women, who like to work, like to do corporate business, and are pro choice, pro immigrant, pro business, social safety nets, pro social health care.

What is the percentage?

In a nutshell, the difference to give the Conservatives a Majority vs a Minority, and too take as many votes away from each other Party whom has received there votes by defaults.

[madmax]

This is such a nonsense piece that May has given, it will be forgotten soon or she will get tripped up over it should she continue with such double speak.

There is only One Party that is Anti Abortion and really means it.

That is the Christian Heritage Party.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Progressives are often fiscally conservative minded individuals without the Social Conservative Values. When the PCs and CA joined together, those that felt they had no home, joined all other parties, and also fringe parties that don't get alot of attention. These can be women, who like to work, like to do corporate business, and are pro choice, pro immigrant, pro business, social safety nets, pro social health care.

Interesting definition. I'm not sure how many of these women you refer to at the end ever really voted PC.

[geoffrey]

Again, social issues are not worth making your voting decision over. None of them really have an impact on the average person's life.

I'd say the 60-70% of politicans time these issues take up impacts less then 10% of the population.

[Canadian Blue]

Progressives = Environmental concerns are a priority, equality rights are not up for debate and are a priority to acheive, woman's right to self determination is not up for debate on any level, good governance that is responsible to the people it represents, misogyny, racism and bigotry are societal ills that need to be addressed, anti-war, and I suppose in this day and age electoral reform when combined with the above.

How likely is it that people fit into that description perfectly, I figure 90% don't. Many have differing issues, and in the end votes will come down to those who present a viable platform.

[Catchme]

Again, social issues are not worth making your voting decision over. None of them really have an impact on the average person's life.

Are you kidding? No I do not suppose you are, however social issues determine what a vast majority ofpeople vote for, like health care accessability, equality issues, environment and believe me the imapct upon everyones life.

[madmax]

Are you kidding? No I do not suppose you are, however social issues determine what a vast majority ofpeople vote for, like health care accessability, equality issues, environment and believe me the imapct upon everyones life.

Well, Geof can correct me if I am wrong. But I believe he was stating that fiscal conservatism is more important amongst voters than Social Conservatism. Also listening to him talk about Health Care and the Environment, shows me that these were not the issues he was commenting on.

May is providing false hope for die hard anti abortionists.

[Catchme]

Are you kidding? No I do not suppose you are, however social issues determine what a vast majority ofpeople vote for, like health care accessability, equality issues, environment and believe me the imapct upon everyones life.

Well, Geof can correct me if I am wrong. But I believe he was stating that fiscal conservatism is more important amongst voters than Social Conservatism. Also listening to him talk about Health Care and the Environment, shows me that these were not the issues he was commenting on.

May is providing false hope for die hard anti abortionists.

I am not sure you are correct about that, a good many Canadians are very concerned about soc-cons, and are getting much more concerned.

May providing false hope, in order to try and grab CPC voters who are upset about the CPC's denial of the of the environment issues facing us?

Personally, I feel then her her actions are even more reprehensible. Playing cutsey with peoples rights, is never righteous under any circumstance.

[geoffrey]

Are you kidding? No I do not suppose you are, however social issues determine what a vast majority ofpeople vote for, like health care accessability, equality issues, environment and believe me the imapct upon everyones life.

People that vote for equality issues and stuff like that are already either Green or NDP anyways. You'll find that portion of Canadians marginalised even more now that the economy is putting pressure on people's jobs.

You'll find 10 out of 10 people will vote for their job over whether Jim and Bob can get hitched. If they don't, they desperately need to seek psychological help.

Well, Geof can correct me if I am wrong. But I believe he was stating that fiscal conservatism is more important amongst voters than Social Conservatism. Also listening to him talk about Health Care and the Environment, shows me that these were not the issues he was commenting on.

May is providing false hope for die hard anti abortionists.

They aren't the issues I'm commenting on [environment and health]. Those two can bother be economical issues. I'm talking about silly little issues like abortion, same-sex marriage, ridiculous wastes of time like that. I'm a practicing Catholic, I'm very against these issues morally, but I couldn't be bothered to really waste my time voting on them. Issues like this are all fine and dandy when the economy is strong, but now it's not that way. We've got to worry about returning Canada to a respectable level on the international stage economically before we can worry about ridiculous little rights to hand out to a few people here and there. Gays make up what, 1% of the population... why are we wasting so much time on them?

Anyone that votes for social issues is really wasting their time... you can only have social justice when the bills are paid.

[Catchme]

People that vote for equality issues and stuff like that are already either Green or NDP anyways. You'll find that portion of Canadians marginalised even more now that the economy is putting pressure on people's jobs.

Oh I am sure many Liberals vote for equality and social issues. The point being they should not be marginalized in the first place is it not?

You'll find 10 out of 10 people will vote for their job over whether Jim and Bob can get hitched. If they don't, they desperately need to seek psychological help.

It really isn't an either or thing is it? Funny that you would think so.

They aren't the issues I'm commenting on [environment and health]. Those two can bother be economical issues.

Well, I was certainly commenting on them and seeing as how neither the CPC nor the Liberals take either seriously, we should be focusing on those that do.

I'm talking about silly little issues like abortion, same-sex marriage, ridiculous wastes of time like that.

Well, too bad more did not think like that and we would not have to be dealing with it every 2 minutes. Plus I guess you must be a hetrosexual, wealthy white middle aged male.

I'm a practicing Catholic, I'm very against these issues morally, but I couldn't be bothered to really waste my time voting on them. Issues like this are all fine and dandy when the economy is strong, but now it's not that way.

Funny you keep hitching rights to economy. And rights issues are fine and dandy all the time, a poor economy has no bearing on them.

We've got to worry about returning Canada to a respectable level on the international stage economically before we can worry about ridiculous little rights to hand out to a few people here and there. Gays make up what, 1% of the population... why are we wasting so much time on them?

Funny priorities. But anyway, what do you mean restoring Canada to a respectable level on the international stage?

Rights are never ridiculous and only someone that enjoys full comfort of them would say so.

Anyone that votes for social issues is really wasting their time... you can only have social justice when the bills are paid.

Again, it is not an either or, they are not mutally exclusive things, why you would think so escapes me!

[geoffrey]

Well, I was certainly commenting on them and seeing as how neither the CPC nor the Liberals take either seriously, we should be focusing on those that do.

They aren't social issues, they are economics issues.

I'm talking about silly little issues like abortion, same-sex marriage, ridiculous wastes of time like that.

Well, too bad more did not think like that and we would not have to be dealing with it every 2 minutes. Plus I guess you must be a hetrosexual, wealthy white middle aged male.

We're dealing with it every two minutes because both sides of highly organized lobbies, often funded by the government. Not because average Joe worries every 5 minutes about gays getting married.

Average income, white, 20-something.

Funny you keep hitching rights to economy. And rights issues are fine and dandy all the time, a poor economy has no bearing on them.

Sure it does. When people worry more about putting food on their table, they worry less about frivilous policies, programs and declarations.

Funny priorities. But anyway, what do you mean restoring Canada to a respectable level on the international stage?

Our country has fallen considerably in terms of economic performance, we're near the bottom of the OECD in growth, enterprise and small-business. Why is 13th or 14th best ok for everyone in Canada? We have more resources than any other country in the world, we should be number one without any excuses.... anything less is poor policy.

Rights are never ridiculous and only someone that enjoys full comfort of them would say so.

I disagree. I don't have half the rights of certain minorities in this country, say the Indians. Rights are overextended today anyways, most should be deemed privledges and people should be able to lose them. There is no right to free health care (that's just stupid)... there are fundamental rights like voting and speech that are essiential to freedom, but all these special interest rights are just money grabs by powerful lobbies.

Again, it is not an either or, they are not mutally exclusive things, why you would think so escapes me!

Are you one of those people that thinks NDP or Green economics are sound?

[Catchme]

They aren't social issues, they are economics issues.

Apparently, Harper does not agree with that fact that the environment is an economic issue, nor did the Liberals, because both have given token notice to it.

We're dealing with it every two minutes because both sides of highly organized lobbies, often funded by the government. Not because average Joe worries every 5 minutes about gays getting married.

No, we dealt with it because it was an inequality in rights. The lobby against people's equal rights was the waste of time money and energy.

Sure it does. When people worry more about putting food on their table, they worry less about frivilous policies, programs and declarations.

As I said you speak from a position of priviledge, you notion of frivolous, is not the majority of others notion.

Our country has fallen considerably in terms of economic performance, we're near the bottom of the OECD in growth, enterprise and small-business. Why is 13th or 14th best ok for everyone in Canada? We have more resources than any other country in the world, we should be number one without any excuses.... anything less is poor policy.

The number 1 what of the world?

Perhaps the Majority Canadians would rather be number 1 in others ways than "economic growth"?

I disagree. I don't have half the rights of certain minorities in this country, say the Indians. Rights are overextended today anyways, most should be deemed privledges and people should be able to lose them. There is no right to free health care (that's just stupid)... there are fundamental rights like voting and speech that are essiential to freedom, but all these special interest rights are just money grabs by powerful lobbies.

Oh, you have more rights, you just do not allow your position of priviledge in society see that you do. Equality rights are NEVER over extended. No one has said we have a right to free health care, most Canadians are fully aware that we pay for our health care through taxation. It is our money no matter which way it gets paid.

The most powerful lobby in Ottawa is BIG BUSINESS.

Are you one of those people that thinks NDP or Green economics are sound?

I am one of those people who believe equality and human rights come before economic right to extreme profits.

The Greens have no economic policy, and yes, the NDP's has been very consice and well thought out in both minority governments.

[Ricki Bobbi]

I am one of those people who believe equality and human rights come before economic right to extreme profits.

Do you believe in the right to any profits at all?

At what point do profits become extreme?

Do you believe in property rights?

[geoffrey]

Catchme's belief in freedom and rights appears to end at economic freedom. Who needs that anyways... people in Canada apparently care more for homosexual marriage than their paycheques.

[Catchme]

Interesting development, regarding our not so progressive feminist Elizabeth May. Green Party Italy has picked up on the leader of the Green Party in Canada's descent from favour and noted strongly why.

Canada: Green Party Slammed after Leader Elizabeth May Suggests Personal Dislike of Abortion

Green World Press Review

If I've got a pay check, and no rights to do, or be, anything else at all, I am a pretty poor person am I not?

[Canadian Blue]

Oh I am sure many Liberals vote for equality and social issues. The point being they should not be marginalized in the first place is it not?

All human life must be respected, unless that human life is living off a placenta.

Well, too bad more did not think like that and we would not have to be dealing with it every 2 minutes. Plus I guess you must be a hetrosexual, wealthy white middle aged male.

Hold on, every wealthy, white, heterosexual, middle aged male, have the exact some politicial view's. I never knew that, thank's for your insight. If I were to say every middle aged native held the exact same view's I have a feeling you would call me racist.