Harper's foreign and social policy vs. fiscal

[Ricki Bobbi]

But ... but.... you said you had already put out the effort and reached a conclusion. Why not just share your efforts with us.

Unless .... unless ... you're ... full of crap???

I'll share my efforts when somebody else shares theirs.

Hmmm, I should put out the effort because you say I'm full of crap?

Seems like you are embarking on a path of self-destruction of credibility.

[Figleaf]

But ... but.... you said you had already put out the effort and reached a conclusion. Why not just share your efforts with us.

Unless .... unless ... you're ... full of crap???

I'll share my efforts when somebody else shares theirs.

Saturn did.

Hmmm, I should put out the effort because you say I'm full of crap?

But you said you've already put out the effort, all you need to do now is reveal it.

[Ricki Bobbi]

I'll share my efforts when somebody else shares theirs.

Saturn did.

But you said you've already put out the effort, all you need to do now is reveal it.

Saturn provided links to two reports on health care spending.

Here is one from the Canadian perspective.

Here is one by Dr. David Gratzer from the US perspective comparing the two countries.

Now I have done exactly what Saturn did. I posted two data heavy links that, yet again, prove his 60% figure is fallacious.

Do the analysis and we'll talk.

[Figleaf]

I'll share my efforts when somebody else shares theirs.

Saturn did.

But you said you've already put out the effort, all you need to do now is reveal it.

Saturn provided links to two reports on health care spending.

Here is one from the Canadian perspective.

Here is one by Dr. David Gratzer from the US perspective comparing the two countries.

Now I have done exactly what Saturn did. I posted two data heavy links that, yet again, prove his 60% figure is fallacious.

You need to review posts 122 and 140, because Saturn not only provided links, s/he also provided excerpts with explicative emphases added.

Face up to it, Ricki, we know you didn't read the materials, let alone analyze them. Just admit it and you'll feel a lot better.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Face up to it, Ricki, we know you didn't read the materials, let alone analyze them. Just admit it and you'll feel a lot better.

So you aren't going to read the articles I linked to.

Looks like you are doing a great job destroying your own credibility!

Trim your posts while you are at it!

We *all* know you are just here to attack. So I'll end this little feud they way I always end it when you feel the need to follow me around like a puppy.

I've said my piece. Dealt with the minor point you brought up. I'm finished with you this time. You'll come back with another attempt at baiting me. I'll ignore it and you will crawl back into your little cave.

[Figleaf]

Face up to it, Ricki, we know you didn't read the materials, let alone analyze them. Just admit it and you'll feel a lot better.

So you aren't going to read the articles I linked to.

What makes you think that?

We *all* know you are just here to attack.

Please stop being ridiculous. You said you had read thru something and made an analysis. I simply asked you for that analysis and you went ballistic.

You'll come back with another attempt at baiting me. I'll ignore it and you will crawl back into your little cave.

So, you won't share this vaunted analysis you alleged you made? If not, I would suggest that we are free to assume you made it up.

[Saturn]

http://secure.cihi.ca/cihiweb/dispPage.jsp...AR31_2006high_e

Highlights

*Total health expenditure, in current dollars, was estimated at $131.4 billion in 2004, and is forecast to have reached $139.8 billion in 2005 and $148.0 billion in 2006.

* After adjusting for inflation, health care spending grew at an average annual rate of 3.8% between 1975 and 1991. From 1991 to 1996 total spending on health care edged up by the rate of 0.8% per year. It increased by 5.0% from 1996 to 2004. Real growth is expected to have been 3.7% in 2005 and 2006.

* Total health expenditure per capita was estimated at $4,109 in 2004 and is expected to have been $4,333 in 2005 and $4,548 in 2006.

* Total health care spending as a percentage of Gross Domestic Product was 10.2% in 2004; the ratio is forecast to have remained to be 10.2% in 2005 and is expected to have been 10.3% in 2006.

* The private sector share peaked in 2002 at 30.4%. It is expected to decrease to 29.7% in 2006.

* The category of drugs ranks second after hospitals in terms of its share of total health expenditure. In 1997, expenditure on drugs overtook spending on physician services. The share of total spending accounted for by drugs grew from a low of 8.4% in the late 1970s to 16.6% in 2004. In 2006, drugs are expected to remain ranked second with a share of 17.0%.

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

In 2004 (the latest year data are available), total national health expenditures rose 7.9 percent -- over three times the rate of inflation (1). Total spending was $1.9 TRILLION in 2004, or $6,280 per person (1). Total health care spending represented 16 percent of the gross domestic product (GDP).

US health-care per capita in 2004 cost 52.8% more than health-care in Canada. Now, factor in the exchange rate and you are looking at a difference of 70%. You should read the two websites thoroughly and carefully before you come back with any comments.

At $1C=$1US

($6,280/$4,109)-1=52.8%

At $1C=$0.9US

($6,280/$4,109*0.9)-1=69.8%

At $1C=$0.8US

($6,280/$4,109*0.8)-1=91.0%

[Ricki Bobbi]

At $1C=$1US

($6,280/$4,109)-1=52.8%

At $1C=$0.9US

($6,280/$4,109*0.9)-1=69.8%

At $1C=$0.8US

($6,280/$4,109*0.8)-1=91.0%

Using the Purchasing Power Parity model based on the March 25, 2006 calculations of the Economist $1 US = $1.03 CAD. The difference is 54.4%

5.6% on $148 Billion in annual spending is $8.3 Billion dollars.

That sir is a huge difference....

That proves you wrong without going into the issues of the methodology in the studies you linked to.

Given the fluctuations in exchange rates most economists agree PPP is the best way to compare spending in countries which use different currencies. Did you simply ignore PPP because it didn't support your false conclusions?

PS. Figleaf I told you I'd refute Saturn's facts as soon as i had something to deal with.

[Saturn]

Saturn provided links to two reports on health care spending.

Here is one from the Canadian perspective.

Here is one by Dr. David Gratzer from the US perspective comparing the two countries.

Now I have done exactly what Saturn did. I posted two data heavy links that, yet again, prove his 60% figure is fallacious.

How ridiculous can you get?

The two links I provided are among the few most authoritative sources of information on health care spending. The data is for the same year (2004) and is easily comparable.

A blog is nothing reliable.

The only study from the Fraser Institute you provided that provides international comparison specifically states that the US is excluded from this comparison:

As a consequence, in this study we primarily compare Canada to other countries that also have universal access, publicly funded, health care systems. Because the United States and Mexico

do not, they are not included in the comparisons presented below.

That a blog and a study that specifically states that it does NOT compare Canadian health-care costs to US health-care costs provides a comparison of health care costs in the two countries would be a mystery to anyone except apparently your confused mind.

[Ricki Bobbi]

That a blog and a study that specifically states that it does NOT compare Canadian health-care costs to US health-care costs provides a comparison of health care costs in the two countries would be a mystery to anyone except apparently your confused mind.

So your silence implicitly accepts my refutation of your facts?

[Saturn]

Using the Purchasing Power Parity model based on the March 25, 2006 calculations of the Economist $1 US = $1.03 CAD. The difference is 54.4%

5.6% on $148 Billion in annual spending is $8.3 Billion dollars.

That sir is a huge difference....

That proves you wrong without going into the issues of the methodology in the studies you linked to.

Given the fluctuations in exchange rates most economists agree PPP is the best way to compare spending in countries which use different currencies. Did you simply ignore PPP because it didn't support your false conclusions?

PS. Figleaf I told you I'd refute Saturn's facts as soon as i had something to deal with.

There is no end to your BS, is there?

http://www.oecd.org/document/47/0,2340,en_...l#historicalppp

At PPP, in 2004: $1.25C=$1US implying $1C=$0.8US

($6,280/$4,109*0.8)-1=91.0%

Even if PPP were 1:1.03 and you looked at the age-adjusted health-care spending, you'd be at 60%. Even if the difference were 54.4%, how does that back up your claim that the US health-care system is not more expensive than Canada's? Don't respond, I'm done with your nonsense.

[Saturn]

That a blog and a study that specifically states that it does NOT compare Canadian health-care costs to US health-care costs provides a comparison of health care costs in the two countries would be a mystery to anyone except apparently your confused mind.

So your silence implicitly accepts my refutation of your facts?

You're so full of it.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Even if PPP were 1:1.03 and you looked at the age-adjusted health-care spending, you'd be at 60%. Even if the difference were 54.4%, how does that back up your claim that the US health-care system is not more expensive than Canada's? Don't respond, I'm done with your nonsense.

My claim was the 60% figure was wrong. Nice strawman.

$8.3 billion is a huge difference.

Never said the US system wasn't more expensive.

Sorry for ignoring your order, but I proved your 60% figure was wrong.

Cling falsely to it all you want...

"Don't respond" ... control issues.

[madmax]

Here is one from the Canadian perspective.

Here is one by Dr. David Gratzer from the US perspective comparing the two countries.

Do the analysis and we'll talk.

Thanks for providing the links. However, I am having difficulty finding the figures on Health Care Spending in the US and Health Care Spending in Canada, in these two threads?

The one thread, appears to be a blog of sorts, and I don't see any government data on the spending.

The other one is a Fraser Institute Page, but again, I see commentary but the numbers aren't easy to find. My Computer is taking a very long time to load the PDF file for some reason.

If anyone can get the data found in these web pages and post it here, I would be very appreciative.

Thanks in advance.

[Saturn]

My claim was the 60% figure was wrong. Nice strawman.

Your claim is bull. PPP of 1.03 is a product of your imagination or you got it here.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Your claim is bull. PPP of 1.03 is a product of your imagination or you got it here.

Just go to the Economist web site.

No link, it's a paysite...

[Saturn]

Your claim is bull. PPP of 1.03 is a product of your imagination or you got it here.

Just go to the Economist web site.

No link, it's a paysite...

A paysite because that will make it difficult to verify your claims? Listen, there is NO way the Economist would have claimed that PPP is 1.03 because it simply isn't true and the Economists is not exactly a publication that makes up completely false statistics. The only thing in there about PPP is their Big Mac index, which isn't a PPP index by any serious means (and even then BM PPP is 1.10). Now stop being ridiculous - US health-care costs roughly 70% more than Canadian health-care. No ends, buts, or false statistics.

[Ricki Bobbi]

A paysite because that will make it difficult to verify your claims? Listen, there is NO way the Economist would have claimed that PPP is 1.03 because it simply isn't true and the Economists is not exactly a publication that makes up completely false statistics. The only thing in there about PPP is their Big Mac index, which isn't a PPP index by any serious means (and even then BM PPP is 1.10).

If the Economist information makes it difficult to verify my claims how do you already know what the Economist posted as therir Big Mac PPP? Seriously, look at the contradiction.

Now stop being ridiculous - US health-care costs roughly 70% more than Canadian health-care. No ends, buts, or false statistics.

I am trying to debate and all you can provide is an insult about my *ridiculous* behaviour?

There is nothing *false* about my claims.

In your last post you just state that US health care costs are 70% more than Canada and the BM PPP is 1.10. Using that inflated PPP figure you have US health care costs being 58% higher than Canada. That 12% difference represents $18 Billion CAD annually.

Now don't get angry. Don't insult me. Just look at the *facts* you stated and deal with my refutation.

[mikedavid00]

Something tells me that you and Saturn both lack the technical skills necessary to even go through those numbers accurately.

Yes. I noticed that on a quick look and just disregarded the numbers.

Atleast for once in his life he gave a cite though. Incorect of course.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Yes. I noticed that on a quick look and just disregarded the numbers.

Atleast for once in his life he gave a cite though. Incorect of course.

It is curious how the numbers he fnally did give ended up proving him wrong.