Story from work! lol!

mikedavid00 · December 20, 2006

So nice of you to flick off the immigrant as one who wants to leave it to Canadians to donate. They may be coming from a country that does not do donations, may have cultural or religious reasons for not wanting to donate or a myriad of other reasons. Ahh ...but it is all selfishness isnt it ? Oh please.........

What are you talking about?

This is a recognized problem even by your Libearl party.

" What's more, the gap between transplant patients on waiting lists and numbers of available organs is widening. "

Gee, I wonder why. Here's what your cite says:

"Most religions support organ donation as an act of kindness." (read between the lines)

And then check out this 82 page study on the issue regaring Chinese Canadians and organ donation. I guess they did this study for the fun of it: http://qhr.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/15/1/82.pdf

And then after you read that, you can read about south asians who do not donate orgarns:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...9&dopt=Abstract

"There is concern that a disproportionately high number of people of South Asian origin await transplantation in Canada. The donation rate is low in this population".

On every post it's almost apprant that you guys simply don't understand issues at hand. You guys have done no research and base everything off your personal emotion and anecdotal opinions.

For once though, it's nice to see you two cite some research. Keep it up and maybe you'll learn something.

Also good for everyone to note:

"Transplants can save health care costs: the cost of a kidney transplant averages $20,000 plus $6,000 per year thereafter ($50,000 over five years). Maintaining a kidney patient on dialysis costs $50,000 per year ($250,000 over five years). "

mikedavid00 · December 20, 2006

Is there any evidence that Arar's wife applied for social assistance, or is this just a drive by smear?

See my new signature.

You are just grasping at straws now.

See the signature.

Saturn · December 20, 2006

Is there any evidence that Arar's wife applied for social assistance, or is this just a drive by smear?

From the November 6, 2003 Globe and Mail. Page A1. Sorry no link, pay access only.

[Arar] is unable to work. The family's savings are depleted and they are on social assistance.

After you spent a year in jail where you were psychologically and physically tortured, you wouldn't be able to work and your savings would be depleted too. The fact that you were accused of being a terrorist wouldn't help you get a job even if you were capable and wanted one either. Monia started working afterwards and even Arar has been offered a part-time job even though he's been looking for a full time job long and hard.

mikedavid00 · December 20, 2006

That is your reply? You are shown to be spreading falsehoods, or lies, your call , and the best you come back with is "Big deal?" Well, perhaps a few others and I will refrain from debating you on anything.

Yes they get more cancer and gain wait when they come here like the rest of us..

I don't see the relevance behind that.

Saturn · December 20, 2006

Is there any evidence that Arar's wife applied for social assistance, or is this just a drive by smear?

See my new signature.

You are just grasping at straws now.

See the signature.

Deport Mikedavid to Syria!

Saturn · December 20, 2006

Or Baffin Island! Whichever he prefers! Chao MD!

mikedavid00 · December 20, 2006

Arar has been offered a part-time job even though he's been looking for a full time job long and hard.

Maybe he can work for the NDP like his wife.

Either way, his family has cost us tax payers huge and I don't feel they contribute to our country so I would like to send them back home.

Does This look like a terrible place to live? Come on guys be honest with yourselves

mikedavid00 · December 20, 2006

Deport Mikedavid to Syria!

Life there isn't so bad at all.

Have you ever spoken to someone from Syria? It's not a dirt hole like you think it is. It's very liberal and modern in many ways. Anyone from Syria coming to Canada is lying if they say they're refugees.

I just need to hold my other Canadian citizenship so I can come to Canada incase I need I need a triple bypass.

Saturn · December 20, 2006

Maybe he can work for the NDP like his wife.
Either way, his family has cost us tax payers huge and I don't feel they contribute to our country so I would like to send them back home.

Does This look like a terrible place to live? Come on guys be honest with yourselves

Great! I hope you like it. Adieu!

Melanie_ · December 20, 2006

See the signature.

So she applied for social assistance after the deportation. As Saturn pointed out, she had a lot of other pressing issues at the time. However, you implied that the reason she didn't change her name when she got married was so that she could engage in welfare fraud - do you have any evidence of that? If not, I'll repeat - you are grasping at straws.

*Edited to add* I have seen the signature. It is mean spirited and petty. Do you really find joy in others' tragedy?

madmax · December 20, 2006

So she applied for social assistance after the deportation.

The family had to apply for social assistance when Arar came back and they had depleted their savings, is the story in the Globe. Torture, time and energy to clear ones name, and job offers and interviews aren't going to be the 1st thing on an employers mind. I believe Arar held a good job, until the holiday in wonderful Syria, where they are pretty modern, except for the torture part.

This thread has been very fun to read.

mikedavid00 · December 20, 2006

*Edited to add* I have seen the signature. It is mean spirited and petty. Do you really find joy in others' tragedy?

No I don't. I find joy in proving myself right, which I have a history of doing here on this forum.

I wish I lived in your province. It seems that you guys enjoy a happy, normal existance over there with a functioning economy and natural growth.

Melanie_ · December 20, 2006

*Edited to add* I have seen the signature. It is mean spirited and petty. Do you really find joy in others' tragedy?

No I don't. I find joy in proving myself right, which I have a history of doing here on this forum.

Well, you certainly convince yourself that you are right, anyway.

Saturn · December 20, 2006

No I don't. I find joy in proving myself right, which I have a history of doing here on this forum.

Have you booked your trip to Syria yet? Or Baffin Island? Don't miss the X-mas deals!

Ricki Bobbi · December 20, 2006

So she applied for social assistance after the deportation. As Saturn pointed out, she had a lot of other pressing issues at the time. However, you implied that the reason she didn't change her name when she got married was so that she could engage in welfare fraud - do you have any evidence of that? If not, I'll repeat - you are grasping at straws.

So there is no credence to your "drive by smear" *implication* but you can neither admit your mistake nor give up the partisanship long enough to refrain from becoming shrill. tsk tsk tsk

M.Dancer · December 20, 2006

That is your reply? You are shown to be spreading falsehoods, or lies, your call , and the best you come back with is "Big deal?" Well, perhaps a few others and I will refrain from debating you on anything.

Yes they get more cancer and gain wait when they come here like the rest of us..

I don't see the relevance behind that.

bUT DO THEY LERAN TO RED AND RITE?

mikedavid00 · December 20, 2006

That is your reply? You are shown to be spreading falsehoods, or lies, your call , and the best you come back with is "Big deal?" Well, perhaps a few others and I will refrain from debating you on anything.

Yes they get more cancer and gain wait when they come here like the rest of us..

I don't see the relevance behind that.

bUT DO THEY LERAN TO RED AND RITE?

Hey I was at the top of my English class

Curiouscanuck · December 20, 2006

Don't ask if health care is ruined. It is, it's already finished beyond repair. It was ruined because people were using it that didn't pay in. End of story. Now we need private hospitals. If something happens to me and I need an organ, I cannot get one and could die on a waiting list.

I agree that health care must be privatized in one form or another. I do also strongly believe that the well being of society is much better off if everyone does have access to health care. But your reasons (or your only one reason) is a drop in the bucket to why it is not succeeding. Ill provide more reasons along with yours, and make it a respectable list.

Government-Owned firms have much higher costs than private firms b/c:

1. Red tape.

2. operating above efficient scale (making national choices rather than regional).

3. Telling consumers/doctors what they want/need (single uniform quality of product, minority tastes and interests ignored).

4. No one knows what the actual cost (or what the market price would be) is of getting treated because there is no market.

5. special interests (gov, important people jumping lines).

6.hospitals are not rewarded if they succeed, not punished if they fail, and will never go bankrupt.

7. no reward for innovation.

8.Monopoly (power tends to corrupt)

9.Tragedy of the commons (its free, so I use more of it)

10. cheaters (immigrants)

mikedavid00 · December 20, 2006

Government-Owned firms have much higher costs than private firms b/c:

I agree. We need hospital corporations coming into Canada and healtch insurance companies.

We need new hosptials built desperately.

Ricki Bobbi · December 20, 2006

The abuse of the system at the start of this thread is evidence of the need for changing the system and creating a set of rules that aren't open to abuse. It is not a call for complete privatization of the system.

Government should have some role to play in our lives. Not as much as many dippers would like, for me. But the tradeoff with complete privatization of the system is that many, many innocent people would be left without access to even basically adequate health care.

mikedavid00 · December 20, 2006

The abuse of the system at the start of this thread is evidence of the need for changing the system and creating a set of rules that aren't open to abuse. It is not a call for complete privatization of the system.
Government should have some role to play in our lives. Not as much as many dippers would like, for me. But the tradeoff with complete privatization of the system is that many, many innocent people would be left without access to even basically adequate health care.

I agree.

Also, when you say 'dippers' do you mean south asians? All my old co-op student friends from BC would them 'dippers' or 'dips'

Melanie_ · December 21, 2006

So she applied for social assistance after the deportation. As Saturn pointed out, she had a lot of other pressing issues at the time. However, you implied that the reason she didn't change her name when she got married was so that she could engage in welfare fraud - do you have any evidence of that? If not, I'll repeat - you are grasping at straws.

So there is no credence to your "drive by smear" *implication* but you can neither admit your mistake nor give up the partisanship long enough to refrain from becoming shrill. tsk tsk tsk

I'm completely open to admitting a mistake. But I haven't seen any evidence yet that supports this statement

It's odd how Arar's wife has another last name than Arar. Common people may not give that a second though. But this is a common, common practice used to cheat welfare payments.

If she applied for social assistance while concealing her marriage in a deliberate attempt to cheat the system, I'll happily apologize to MikeDavid for doubting him.

Ricki Bobbi · December 21, 2006

I'm completely open to admitting a mistake. But I haven't seen any evidence yet that supports this statement

But you have seen evidence about your *drive by smear* comment? Smooth attempt at changing the subject. :rolleyes:

Melanie_ · December 21, 2006

I'm completely open to admitting a mistake. But I haven't seen any evidence yet that supports this statement

But you have seen evidence about your *drive by smear* comment? Smooth attempt at changing the subject.

Yes, I was wrong when I suggested she hadn't applied for social assistance. She obviously did, as has been pointed out. But I don't think it had anything to do with her last name, or with a deliberate attempt to cheat the system by not disclosing her marital status. Her situation was irrelevent to the discussion of abuses of the system.

Ricki Bobbi · December 21, 2006

Yes, I was wrong when I suggested she hadn't applied for social assistance. She obviously did, as has been pointed out. But I don't think it had anything to do with her last name, or with a deliberate attempt to cheat the system by not disclosing her marital status. Her situation was irrelevent to the discussion of abuses of the system.

Where did you come by this insight into her motivations?