Same-sex motion defeated by wide margin

[normanchateau]

Private insurers can deny you auto coverage in Nova Scotia.

No they cannot.

Written reasons must be given as to why you were denied insurance and you can in fact dispute the reasoning with the Superintendant of Insurance.

I know they must give you written reasons for denying you insurance.

I'd want written reasons when I was denied insurance.

Perhaps the issue is you feel that a private industry should provide you without limitations?

There are several issues here for me.

(1) Private insurers can legally discriminate against people on the basis of age and sex. It strikes me as unfair that all young males, including those who've never had and will never have an accident, should be financially penalized because of peer-based, statistical data. I can understand paying more because I drive more but not paying more merely because I have a Y chromosome.

(2) What's to prevent private insurers from eventually collecting and using statistical data to discriminate against people based on race, religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation? If race Z has a higher accident rate, should everyone belonging to race Z pay more?

(3) ICBC delivers auto insurance without discriminating on the basis of age and sex. Why does this option not exist in most other provinces where all young males continue to pay for the sins of some young males?

BC does have private insurers but they have to compete with public insurance which has successfully existed here since the early 70's.

[guyser]

AGE

SEX (IF UNDER 25)

MARITAL STATUS (IF UNDER 25)

I am not sure where the violation per the Charter is . Can you inform me?

Lol.

You can honestly sit here in say that that you don't know where they are using sexism, agism, and the oh so trendy marital status.

Your a little misguided Mike. The Charter doesn't protect you from anything other than the government. The Charter doesn't prevent me from hanging a big sign on my door that says "No Black Unmarried Gay Women under 32.5 from another Nation with a Criminal Record allowed."

There is provincial legislation that protects people from discrimination for goods open to sale. This is where you'd find your protection.

Is there a possibility that you'd win a case on discrimination because your a younger-20's male. I certainly hope so, women my age pay 30% less despite having traffic convictions. I've got a clean record for 5 years of driving and I pay much more. Is that bullshit? Absolutely.

But it ain't the charter helping you.

Sorry , that would be one case you would lose.

As for women paying less even with tickets , there is some untruth in that. Depending of course on the tickets and when they got them and for what.

Statistically speaking, and of which the entire business is built on, male drives are more of a hazard and therefor charged more.

It really is simple. Want to drive, pay the bill.Or shop around

[guyser]

[

I know they must give you written reasons for denying you insurance.

I'd want written reasons when I was denied insurance.

Perhaps the issue is you feel that a private industry should provide you without limitations?

There are several issues here for me.

(1) Private insurers can legally discriminate against people on the basis of age and sex. It strikes me as unfair that all young males, including those who've never had and will never have an accident, should be financially penalized because of peer-based, statistical data. I can understand paying more because I drive more but not paying more merely because I have a Y chromosome.

(2) What's to prevent private insurers from eventually collecting and using statistical data to discriminate against people based on race, religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation? If race Z has a higher accident rate, should everyone belonging to race Z pay more?

(3) ICBC delivers auto insurance without discriminating on the basis of age and sex. Why does this option not exist in most other provinces where all young males continue to pay for the sins of some young males?

BC does have private insurers but they have to compete with public insurance which has successfully existed here since the early 70's.

Well let me answer.

(1) Private insurers must validate rates based on sex and age.Young males actually GET a break as the insurers charge slightly more to the rest of the general insurance population to make up for it.Add in the fact the very liberal accident benefits for the young, and the legal requirement to pay for the rest of a young persons life , well then you see the issue. Young people pay because they claim a ton of money.

(2) Sine this is where the charter comes in do I really have to answer? There is something called the Privacy Act too......you are well protected.

(3) When you have a virtual monopoly, the luxury of amending the system can be achieved. Good for ICBC

[normanchateau]

(1) Private insurers must validate rates based on sex and age.Young males actually GET a break as the insurers charge slightly more to the rest of the general insurance population to make up for it.Add in the fact the very liberal accident benefits for the young, and the legal requirement to pay for the rest of a young persons life , well then you see the issue. Young people pay because they claim a ton of money.

(2) Sine this is where the charter comes in do I really have to answer? There is something called the Privacy Act too......you are well protected.

(3) When you have a virtual monopoly, the luxury of amending the system can be achieved. Good for ICBC

(1) It still strikes me as unfair that all young males must pay a penalty for the sins of some young males. Sure it's legal but that does not change the fact that it's a sexist and ageist policy.

(3) There are private auto insurers in BC who I assume skim off only the lowest risk drivers from ICBC or they'd have more than a handful of clients. The one time I checked on what my rates would be with a BC private insurer, it became apparent why ICBC has what you refer to as a virtual monopoly.

[guyser]

(1) It still strikes me as unfair that all young males must pay a penalty for the sins of some young males. Sure it's legal but that does not change the fact that it's a sexist and ageist policy.

(3) There are private auto insurers in BC who I assume skim off only the lowest risk drivers from ICBC or they'd have more than a handful of clients. The one time I checked on what my rates would be with a BC private insurer, it became apparent why ICBC has what you refer to as a virtual monopoly.

Fair enough. But if you were to check around or stop and think , this occurs everyday with many businesses.(sorry, I dont mean you arent thinkning, how about realizing)

Think about....movie tickets , admission to any event is age specific for pricing, senior days at Sears or Shoppers , Senior benefits , the list goes on and on

[normanchateau]

Think about....movie tickets , admission to any event is age specific for pricing, senior days at Sears or Shoppers , Senior benefits , the list goes on and on

True but I think the list would be much shorter for gender-based pricing.

Sure there are establishments where women get in free but I don't think men oppose that policy if it gets women into those establishments.

[mikedavid00]

Statistically speaking, and of which the entire business is built on, male drives are more of a hazard and therefor charged more.

It really is simple. Want to drive, pay the bill.Or shop around

Well statistically speaking, preople who come from Samolia go on welfare. This is a proveable fact. Now these stats are hidden because of all the uproar in ottawa it caused 15 years back when they started to air commercials in Samolia about how you can come to Canada and get free money for doing nothing.

But of course, these two things are.... different.

[Melanie_]

Well statistically speaking, preople who come from Samolia go on welfare. This is a proveable fact.

Prove it.

[jbg]

Well statistically speaking, preople who come from Samolia go on welfare. This is a proveable fact.

Prove it.

A proof is a proof is a proof is a proof is a proof is a proof.

[jdobbin]

A proof is a proof is a proof is a proof is a proof is a proof.

"We know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know."

[mikedavid00]

Well statistically speaking, preople who come from Samolia go on welfare. This is a proveable fact.

Prove it.

Why? I've proven each time I'm right. It's very time consuming for me to do this... but here we go:

I can't give exact numbers because of the controversy that happened in Ottawa around 15-20 years back.

From nowhere it seems, all these Samoli's came in the thousands to Ottawa as refugees. There was more crime and a new 'alien' like culture of people roaming the streets of Ottawa. It seemed to be tens of thousands. Those on this forum from Ottawa will no what I'm talking about.

Back then, things weren't as politically correct. A news report put out a study showing that 93% or so of Samolies in Ottawa were on welfare and maybe we needed to do something about this. Then there was issues of welfare fruad, having 6 kids and collecting thousands in payments were happening. A story broke where they aired TV specials in Samolia basically saying that you can claim refugee status and take advantage of our system get paid money to do nothing. There was backlash from Canadians such as yourself who have no pride in Canada and are self-hating. Canadians that don't understand the concept of unity, having our taxes wisely spent, and self hatred.

So basically to make a long story short they will no longer give stats on ethnic groups and welfare. You can do a survey for instance, but the gov't will not release these stats. Now this was before the internet so it would be very hard to find this peice of history. Here's the closes I can find from that time:

"The Somali

population in Canada is estimated at between 60,000 and 70,000 with the

largest group -- about 35,000 -- in metropolitan Toronto. ... Somali sources

estimate that between 80 to 90 per cent of their community are on welfare."

More from that time:

"Ontario Opposition Leader and Liberal Party head Lyn McLeod found herself

under attack for "racism" when she demanded to know why Ontario NDP leader

Bob Rae seemed to be so lax when faced with a confidential federal

immigration department report on welfare fraud by Somali "refugee"

claimants. Organized criminals are engaged in a 'systematic pillaging' of

Ontario's welfare system to fund Somali warlords, provincial Liberals say,

citing a confidential federal report. The report said: 'This group is

importing refugees to systematically pillage our vulnerable and exposed

social welfare system in an attempt to raise funds to support clan interests

in the struggle for power in Somalia.' ... A single individual, using

multiple names, can easily collect $100,000 yearly and could get up to

$300,000, McLeod said. 'The report states that the fraud is over tens of

millions of dollars annually. We believe the report is credible,' she said."

(Toronto Star, October 28, 1993) The report suggests Canadians "run the risk

of having our social net damaged beyond repair. ... "

Other things worth noting:

"Whenever I read a story of containing references to Somalis, the immediate picture that pops into my mind are 'welfare indolents'. Since the collapse of their country during the '80's, hundreds of thousands of Somalis have spread into western countries including our own generous welfare state.

In their own country, there's a Somali practice referred to as 'sahan' or sending scouts in the wilderness to find rain. In the U.S., for example, in place of rain water, these Somali scouts are sent out to find the best state welfare rates"

Other notes:

"A brother and two sisters of Somali warlord Mohammed Farrah Aidid's chief

military adviser have been arrested in a $53,000 welfare fraud. Metro Police

said the fraud stretched from Toronto to Alberta and British Columbia.

Police said the fraud was committed over a two year period and $26,700 was

taken in Toronto alone."

From 1992

"Within 5 years, the Somali population in Ontario has increased by 613 percent. There are no 70,000 Somalis living in Canada, 13,00 of whom live in Ottawa...Families on welfare are asked to provide the name of a co-signer who has an income of $50,000 or over. This criteria cannot be met by many Somali single mothers and they have no option but to enter shelters in order to qualify for subsidized housing from the Ottawa-Carleton Regional Housing Authority. This, in turn, has led to an influx of Somalis into certain areas of the city." - (yes, they took all our free, precious, public housing in ottawa and single mother Canadians have a longer waiting list than every).

And to close:

"One notorious case of refugee/welfare abuse during the early 1990's was that of Khadiga Gurhan, the wife of Somali warlord Mohamed Farah Aideed. Her husband apparently had sufficient funds to conduct a war and support his militants in faraway Somalia, yet not enough money to support his wife and children. So instead he sends his family off to Canada, a country known throughout the world that offers sanctuary to any foreign deadbeat claiming 'refugee' status. To add insult to injury, the tax-supported welfare wife returned to Somalia for a visit with her husband while still receiving her monthly welfare cheque. How many working Canadians supporting their own families can afford to fly anywhere on a 5 month foreign 'holiday'?

I believe her comfortable stay on our welfare system lasted for 5 long years until she was finally taken off the easy payment plan.

I'd be interested in reading a thorough investigative report by Michele Mandel in just how many 'refugees' are claiming welfare benefits in a 'job shortage' Canada."

PS-My best childhood friend growing up was a Samalian. Yes, His father had 2 wives, and uncle and 4 children living in their house all collecting cheques. I can tell you that first hand.

Ok guys, now it's time to laugh at me, insult me, stick you head in the sand, cheer on the people who take advantage of us, self-hate our country and own citizens and so forth.

[jbg]

A proof is a proof is a proof is a proof is a proof is a proof.

"We know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know."

I was quoting the "proof" quote out of respect for Canada's Winston Churchill; I don't argue that Donald Rumsfeld is as eloquent as the one who penned the great "proof" statement.

[mikedavid00]

I was quoting the "proof"

Note to all that no one replied to my Somalia facts when I was challenged.

All the heads quckly went in the sand.

[Melanie_]

Note to all that no one replied to my Somalia facts when I was challenged.

All the heads quckly went in the sand.

You haven't provided any facts. You have provided "quotes" but with no context of where they came from or who wrote them (other than a 13 year old reference to the Toronto Star). They are obviously written with no intention of objectivity

"Whenever I read a story of containing references to Somalis, the immediate picture that pops into my mind are 'welfare indolents'.

This statement alone is enough to discredit the speaker.

MikeDavid, maybe this should be continued in a new thread? We don't seem to be discussing the same sex marriage defeat anymore.