CP: Clean Air Act treats Canadians like 'idiots,' says author

[normanchateau]

We all know you hate Harper, give it a rest.

We all know you love Harper, give it a rest.

[jbg]

If I asked an elephant to fly, and the elephant said he wasn't even going to try, is the elephant a fool? Of course not, the damn elephant can't fly and we shouldn't expect the elephant to fly. The fool is the one who expects an elephant to fly. The Liberals left us with an elephant on our shoulders, the signed and ratified a deal that recquires Canada to reduce pollution by almost 40% in about half a decade. The fools are the ones who think this is actually plausible or possible. Yes, it is unfortunate, it is very unfortunate that the Liberals wasted such an oppurtunity and now don't have the cajones to stand up and admit they fumbled the Kyoto protocol.

PM Blair made it clear that the UK would not sacrifice jobs or growth to comply with Kyoto. In the real world, no country will. It is a "feel-good" treaty designed to make people with the minds of 15 year olds seem virtuous. There is a strong likelhihood that any "warming" is natural in etiology and cyclical. Only 3% of the greenhouse gases are CO2. The rest is mostly water.

Using Kyoto to try to slash warming is like trying to pull a bowling ball with sewing thread.

[gerryhatrick]

Let's not be coy, both sides have actual scientists to support their positions.

Ah yes.

Thousands of practising climatologists agree that Global Warming is happening and is being caused by humans.

A handful of (mostly retired) scientists who act essentially as PR men are on the other side.

LET'S GIVE THEM EQUAL RESPECT PEOPLE!

Yeah, try proving that. Links please, otherwise you are just blowing more hot air.

You want me to try and prove a self-evident fact?

[Cameron]

[B. Max]

You want me to try and prove a self-evident fact?

That shouldn't be much of a problem.

[Cameron]

OK, kids, don't let this thread tank...let's try and be civil...

[Canadian Blue]

QUOTE(Canadian Blue @ Nov 19 2006, 12:39 PM)

We all know you hate Harper, give it a rest.

We all know you love Harper, give it a rest.

No not really, I haven't made tonnes of new topics on why I love him. Unlike all of your topics which only seem to be you talking about how much you hate him.

[sunsettommy]

Let's not be coy, both sides have actual scientists to support their positions.

Ah yes.

Thousands of practising climatologists agree that Global Warming is happening and is being caused by humans.

A handful of (mostly retired) scientists who act essentially as PR men are on the other side.

LET'S GIVE THEM EQUAL RESPECT PEOPLE!

If you are talking about CONSENSUS.

It is not a valid template to understanding the science in question.

Meanwhile do you realize that thousands have signed declarations in oppositions to the Kyoto Treaty and other illogical efforts to halt a minimal warming trend?

[sunsettommy]

Let's not be coy, both sides have actual scientists to support their positions. It seems you are defending gerry. Surely you could do better than that. The 'They do it too' strategy doesn't address the real issue.

Are you kidding? Actual scientists? The most vocal opponent of Kyoto on the scientific front in Canada is Tim Ball. A guy who claims to be the "first Ph.D in climatology" in Canada, even though there have been many before him. A guy who claims to have been a professor of climatology at UofW for 32 years, which would make him a professor back when he was in high-school. According to UofW, he was a professor of geography there for 8 years. A guy who hasn't done any research in 15 years - he did almost no research before retiring anyway. A guy who takes oil money, channeled through third parties to fund his anti-Kyoto organizations and campaigns. A guy who is 67 and couldn't care less what happens a couple of decades down the road because he won't be around much longer. You call that an "actual scientist"? I call that a lunatic and a lier.

Attack the person and not his words.

A proven example of someone who has no argument to offer.

[sunsettommy]

Let's not be coy, both sides have actual scientists to support their positions.

Ah yes.

Thousands of practising climatologists agree that Global Warming is happening and is being caused by humans.

A handful of (mostly retired) scientists who act essentially as PR men are on the other side.

LET'S GIVE THEM EQUAL RESPECT PEOPLE!

Yeah, try proving that. Links please, otherwise you are just blowing more hot air.

You want me to try and prove a self-evident fact?

Translation:

You can not answer his request.

[jbg]

Maybe I'm stupid or, to quote thread title an "idiot" but I cannot possibly follow this thread.

[gerryhatrick]

Global Warming is established.

I'm not going to waste my time yapping about 70's cooling periods or any other typical BS put forth by the denial sect.

Debating the reality of Global Warming in topics like this is akin to troll behavior.

[Canuck E Stan]

Maybe I'm stupid or, to quote thread title an "idiot" but I cannot possibly follow this thread.

This can't be the first thread that has evolved in this manner

But it keeps going, so someone understands it.......or not.

[hiti]

That article makes Canadians look like fools, perhaps there are a few too many bacteria in that guys organic granola. The Truth is that it was under the Liberals that we signed, ratified, and pledged an oath of allegiance to the Kyoto protocal...and then sat on our ass proud of all that work we said we would do. But thats it, the Liberals were in power for many years, many inactive years. So do we blame the conservatives for admitting they won't meet the Kyoto protocol? Or should we blame the people who had a so much time and did so little putting us in the situation we now are in?

PLEASE!!!!!!!! Will you and all Liberal critics get your facts straight!! The Liberals DID NOT sit on their ass.

Stephen Dion and the Liberals implemented Project Green to improve our energy efficiency and our waste management practices, conserve our biodiversity, protect our water, clean up contaminated sites, ensure cleaner and healthier air and reduce greenhouse gas emissions. He actively implementing its Ten Year Clean Air Agenda laid out in 2000. Some key elements of this Agenda include a strict regulatory action plan for vehicles, engines and fuels, which will reduce smog-forming emissions from new vehicles by 90 percent by 2010 compared with levels in 2000; a progressive plan to reduce sulphur in rail locomotives, marine vessels, and off-road construction and mining equipment; stricter transportation regulations; and the implementation of Canada-wide standards for particulate matter and ozone.

The agenda for water was also substantial, and comprises the five year Water Management Strategy to improve water and wastewater services for First Nation reserve communities; the $28 million that the last Budget devoted to the first phase of the government's Oceans Action Plan; and the Canada-wide management strategy for municipal wastewater effluents currently in development.

Our natural assets will be safeguarded by the additional $269 million allocated by Budget 2004 to our National Parks. This is good news for the preservation of our natural environment, and good news for our economy.

Harper has erased all reference to Project Green from the government web site and he has canceled all programs relating to Project Green including Windscope while he keeps on kicking at the Liberals to cover up for his own inadequacies in dealing with global warming. He thinks that using words like “clean”, “safe”, and “healthy” “climate change” instead of “global warming” will get him the points from voters he treats as thought they are stupid and win him his majority so he can turn Canada into his own image. Except that his Republican strategist Frank Luntz has renounced his advice on global warming. So watch for Rona Ambrose to change her "mind" on "climate change". She may even start calling it "global warming". Rona will convince Harpo that he should take the environment more seriously.

Gad! Politicians.

So please quit buying into the Conservative lie that the Liberals were not doing anything about Kyoto and the environment.

[Mimas]

So please quit buying into the Conservative lie that the Liberals were not doing anything about Kyoto and the environment.

It's not that they didn't do anything, they didn't do nearly enough. The Cons just came in and wiped out everything the Libs had done, even though it wasn't nearly enough. Now the Cons are accusing the Libs for their own inaction and the Libs are accusing the Cons for their own procrastination on the issue. Just lovely.

On the other hand, I'd like to see them argue even more and louder over this. This should force the Libs to do something serious when they get into office. It will be difficult to back out of doing work on it after accusing the other guys of doing nothing.

[sunsettommy]

Global Warming is established.

I'm not going to waste my time yapping about 70's cooling periods or any other typical BS put forth by the denial sect.

Debating the reality of Global Warming in topics like this is akin to troll behavior.

I have never disputed that we have Global Warming.

I never said anything beyong a question about a cooling period,which I actually makes it as 1941-1976.

You so far have not been a debator on the issue.Just a lot of evasive responses and snide comments about other viewpoints.

Haslavisa!

[sunsettommy]

Let's not be coy, both sides have actual scientists to support their positions.

Ah yes.

Thousands of practising climatologists agree that Global Warming is happening and is being caused by humans.

A handful of (mostly retired) scientists who act essentially as PR men are on the other side.

LET'S GIVE THEM EQUAL RESPECT PEOPLE!

Yeah, try proving that. Links please, otherwise you are just blowing more hot air.

You want me to try and prove a self-evident fact?

By the way when will you ever answer Sharkmans question?

[Argus]

PLEASE!!!!!!!! Will you and all Liberal critics get your facts straight!! The Liberals DID NOT sit on their ass.

They sat on their thumbs rotating and blowing soap bubbles. How's that?

Stephen Dion and the Liberals implemented Project Green to improve our energy efficiency and our waste management practices,

Sweet! When was that again? Right after they signed the Kyoto Accord right? Well, the next year, maybe? Or, uhm, five years later, right? Ten years later? Oh, it wasn't their final year in office when they were in a minority position and desperately trying to hang on to voting blocks, was it, maybe???

So please quit buying into the Conservative lie that the Liberals were not doing anything about Kyoto and the environment.

Okay, let's put it this way. Since they promised to reduce emissions by 6%, and 14 years later emissions had rissen by 30% were they either A. sitting on their thumbs rotating and blowing soap bubbles or - B. totally, completely clueless and incompetent?

[jbg]

Global Warming is established.

I'm not going to waste my time yapping about 70's cooling periods or any other typical BS put forth by the denial sect.

Debating the reality of Global Warming in topics like this is akin to troll behavior.

Why, because it's an opinion you don't share? You're calling lots of people trolls or flame-baiters lately.

[gerryhatrick]

Global Warming is established.

I'm not going to waste my time yapping about 70's cooling periods or any other typical BS put forth by the denial sect.

Debating the reality of Global Warming in topics like this is akin to troll behavior.

Why, because it's an opinion you don't share? You're calling lots of people trolls or flame-baiters lately.

Global Warming is not an "opinion". It is reality.

I'm sorry if you can't or aren't able to see it, but we're not talking about what someone's favorite color is here.

[WestViking]

Global Warming is established.

I'm not going to waste my time yapping about 70's cooling periods or any other typical BS put forth by the denial sect.

Debating the reality of Global Warming in topics like this is akin to troll behavior.

Why, because it's an opinion you don't share? You're calling lots of people trolls or flame-baiters lately.

Global Warming is not an "opinion". It is reality.

I'm sorry if you can't or aren't able to see it, but we're not talking about what someone's favorite color is here.

Global warming is real - so is the sunrise and the moon. We chop down a few million acres of forest, turn thousands of square miles of prairie grasslands into farmlands, build huge cities that consume horrific amounts of energy and produce untold amounts of heat and expect our weather to remain stable.

Our "solution" is to create the Kyoto accord / protocol which took over a decade and a half to agree on and then represents barely 55% of polluting nations and think that by going back to 1990 emission levels we can really make a difference to global warming. Far too little - far too late. If man-made carbon emissions were the sole cause of global warming, the eco-freaks might have a case, but they have no idea how much under ocean volcanoes or other natural occurrences are contributing to ocean current warming for example.

[sunsettommy]

Global Warming is established.

I'm not going to waste my time yapping about 70's cooling periods or any other typical BS put forth by the denial sect.

Debating the reality of Global Warming in topics like this is akin to troll behavior.

Why, because it's an opinion you don't share? You're calling lots of people trolls or flame-baiters lately.

Global Warming is not an "opinion". It is reality.

I'm sorry if you can't or aren't able to see it, but we're not talking about what someone's favorite color is here.

LOL,

Still angry and still no debate comes from you.

Why not take a short vacation from this forum?

Happy Thanksgiving!

[gerryhatrick]

Global Warming is established.

I'm not going to waste my time yapping about 70's cooling periods or any other typical BS put forth by the denial sect.

Debating the reality of Global Warming in topics like this is akin to troll behavior.

Why, because it's an opinion you don't share? You're calling lots of people trolls or flame-baiters lately.

Global Warming is not an "opinion". It is reality.

I'm sorry if you can't or aren't able to see it, but we're not talking about what someone's favorite color is here.

LOL,

Still angry and still no debate comes from you.

Why not take a short vacation from this forum?

Happy Thanksgiving!

You're new so I'll let you know...off topic personal banter is frowned upon by the admin.

[watching&waiting]

Over the last 100 years there has been global warming tothe tune of 2 degrees celcius. For those that need to feel what this is like, put your fingers about 2 inches from your lips and blow. That sudden feeling in temperature drop would be approximately twice that of which the average temperatures has risen over the last 100 years. Now if we continue to do nothing for the next 100 years it will be about equal to that temperature difference that you felt but it would be that amount warmer not colder.

So even with what the science has said about global warming it is not something that is pending doom on us or our children. Probably not even our great grand children. There are many warming and cooloing cycles in our earths history and we are not sure of just how much we affect the climate change. The science has put Canada's contribution at 2% of the global warming. That really is not a big number.

What we need to address long before we spend on global warming is the particuate material pollution that we do know what when where and how it got there. This will affect health of the people here and now, not some centuries away. The whole issue about global warming is more political today then practical. The Liberals made deals and the emmissions rose even higher and they never would have made their targets and would have then had to make purchases of credits from third world countries to saty within Kyoto. The CPC stance is they will take themselves out of mandatory goals and achieve greater results but over a fifty year period. Now this way money stays right here in Canada and a 50 year solution to a 200 years problem is not that big a thing. I say 200 year because the science that is being used says that if we do nothing global temperatures will increase by 2- 4 degress in the next century, and I just can not picture that as a big deal, here in Canada.

So if anyone is treating the people like idiots, it would be the fear mongers that shout this out, and they know nothing about science but still have the nerve to push this without knowing what it is .

[sunsettommy]

Global Warming is established.

I'm not going to waste my time yapping about 70's cooling periods or any other typical BS put forth by the denial sect.

Debating the reality of Global Warming in topics like this is akin to troll behavior.

Why, because it's an opinion you don't share? You're calling lots of people trolls or flame-baiters lately.

Global Warming is not an "opinion". It is reality.

I'm sorry if you can't or aren't able to see it, but we're not talking about what someone's favorite color is here.

LOL,

Still angry and still no debate comes from you.

Why not take a short vacation from this forum?

Happy Thanksgiving!

You're new so I'll let you know...off topic personal banter is frowned upon by the admin.

Global Warming is established.

I'm not going to waste my time yapping about 70's cooling periods or any other typical BS put forth by the denial sect.

Debating the reality of Global Warming in topics like this is akin to troll behavior.

So why make a post when you refuse to debate?

Besides I did not realize being friendly and wishing you a good Thanksgiving was inappropriate behavior.