CP: Clean Air Act treats Canadians like 'idiots,' says author

[gerryhatrick]

Clean Air Act treats Canadians like 'idiots,' says author Monbiot

Kim Covert, Canadian Press

Published: Saturday, November 18, 2006

TORONTO (CP) - For many authors, air travel in order to promote a book is a matter of course.

But for British journalist George Monbiot, who examines ways to sharply reduce greenhouse gas emissions in "Heat: How to Stop the Planet from Burning," it represents a bit of a problem. If, as he suggests, everyone was given an annual ration of carbon dioxide emissions, air travel would have to be severely curtailed.

snip

"One of the great ironies of climate change is that it is carried out principally by people who live in temperate countries and it is meted out principally on people who live in tropical countries," said Monbiot.

"Because we are doing it to other people, by and large - we're doing it to ourselves too but it's going to take longer to hit us and it won't hit us as hard - we allow ourselves to believe that it's acceptable to carry on the way we are."

Monbiot's book looks at some areas most to blame for greenhouse gas emissions and examines solutions: building more environmentally sound houses; making public transportation faster, more convenient and more attractive; developing virtual shopping in order to cut down on the energy wasted by big-box stores; and revolutionizing the cement industry, which causes more damage than most people realize.

Wind and wave power alone, he says, won't solve anyone's problems; and biofuels are actually creating environmental catastrophes in some areas.

snip

And what does he think of Canada's Clean Air Act?

"Oh!" he says, his disgust clear in that single syllable. "It seems, to a complete outsider, to be a misreading of the national mood. That bill was treating people like idiots, both lumping together local pollution with carbon dioxide pollution, and talking about the intensity of carbon emissions. It's almost like putting up a sign saying 'I think the people of this nation are suckers."'

snip

"You (Canadians) think of yourselves as a liberal and enlightened people, and my experience seems to confirm that. But you could scarcely do more to destroy the biosphere if you tried."

-

"When they (the Conservative government) say that Canada cannot reach its Kyoto targets for cutting greenhouse gas emissions, they mean that they do not intend to try. ... (it's) an astonishing instance of political cowardice."

-

"I am sorry to say that only regulation - that deeply unfashionable idea - can quell the destruction wrought by the god we serve, the god of our own appetites."

http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/new...k=43895&p=2

He's absolutely correct to chastise us as he does. And does he ever:

"That Canadians are living in a fool's paradise,.....

They have to act quickly or "have on their conscience a major contribution to what could turn out to be deaths of hundreds of millions of people."

And that means taking political action; protesting bad government policy, and supporting any leader who is prepared to do the right thing, for whatever reason, added the author.

He stirs the pot well on an issue that requires stirring and one that is also becoming more important in political races across the world. Obviously it's becoming more of an issue for our current Government, one that they're in dire need of some good news for. They better ramp up those regulations they were talking about earlier.

[B. Max]

This guy is a communist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Monbiot

My guess would be he's connected with Gorbachev's world communist outfit. Communists did not go away, they simply became watermelons.

http://www.globalgreen.org/

[jdobbin]

This guy is a communist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Monbiot

I must have missed the reference that he is a Communist. As far as I can tell, he is a journalist. And you seem to love journalists because you keep pointing to Daly's and Milloy's websites.

[Technocrat]

This guy is a communist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Monbiot

My guess would be he's connected with Gorbachev's world communist outfit. Communists did not go away, they simply became watermelons.

http://www.globalgreen.org/

mmm watermelon... i hope they are the watermelons that you inject with vodka!!!

[Slavik44]

That article makes Canadians look like fools, perhaps there are a few too many bacteria in that guys organic granola. The Truth is that it was under the Liberals that we signed, ratified, and pledged an oath of allegiance to the Kyoto protocal...and then sat on our ass proud of all that work we said we would do. But thats it, the Liberals were in power for many years, many inactive years. So do we blame the conservatives for admitting they won't meet the Kyoto protocol? Or should we blame the people who had a so much time and did so little putting us in the situation we now are in?

If I asked an elephant to fly, and the elephant said he wasn't even going to try, is the elephant a fool? Of course not, the damn elephant can't fly and we shouldn't expect the elephant to fly. The fool is the one who expects an elephant to fly. The Liberals left us with an elephant on our shoulders, the signed and ratified a deal that recquires Canada to reduce pollution by almost 40% in about half a decade. The fools are the ones who think this is actually plausible or possible. Yes, it is unfortunate, it is very unfortunate that the Liberals wasted such an oppurtunity and now don't have the cajones to stand up and admit they fumbled the Kyoto protocol.

So what do Canadians do? Do you support the party that takes action, although very weak? Do you support a party that just pays lip services to a protocol, because it helps them in the polls? Or do you support parties that actually would drag the country back into the stone age to achieve the goals of the Kyoto protocol? No option is great, I would prefer a better option, but right now I haven't really been presented with a realistic plan or alternative...although I wait patiently for one to present itself.

[Mimas]

This guy is a communist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Monbiot

My guess would be he's connected with Gorbachev's world communist outfit. Communists did not go away, they simply became watermelons.

http://www.globalgreen.org/

And you are dimented

[Mimas]

That article makes Canadians look like fools, perhaps there are a few too many bacteria in that guys organic granola. The Truth is that it was under the Liberals that we signed, ratified, and pledged an oath of allegiance to the Kyoto protocal...and then sat on our ass proud of all that work we said we would do. But thats it, the Liberals were in power for many years, many inactive years. So do we blame the conservatives for admitting they won't meet the Kyoto protocol? Or should we blame the people who had a so much time and did so little putting us in the situation we now are in?

In case you haven't noticed, 2012 is still 6 years away.

Stop LYING about the issue. The issue is NOT that we cannot meet our Kyoto targets. The issue IS that we are NOT even TRYING to meet our targets.

The Liberals were awfully slow moving but they put a few programs in place. A small attempt but an attempt nevertheless. Those programs were promptly canceled by the Cons as soon as they got in power. They came up with this "Clean" Air Act, which is just as clean as "Clean" coal and aromatic dogshit. It is an outrage and an insult - a slap in Canadians' face. We are not as retarded as Harper thinks we are.

[Leafless]

So what do Canadians do? Do you support the party that takes action, although very weak? Do you support a party that just pays lip services to a protocol, because it helps them in the polls? Or do you support parties that actually would drag the country back into the stone age to achieve the goals of the Kyoto protocol? No option is great, I would prefer a better option, but right now I haven't really been presented with a realistic plan or alternative...although I wait patiently for one to present itself.

There really are no realistic answers at the present time when world air pollution increases proportionally to ever increasing world population.

Mandatory birth control would make more sense to me rather than waste tax payers money buying useless carbon credits.

I think supporting the Conservatives clean air bill attacks the countries most important form of pollution, smog.

Turning a blind eye to developing nations and their pollution does not make sense.

[Slavik44]

In case you haven't noticed, 2012 is still 6 years away.

So you believe that it is realistically possible to reduce our pollution by 40% in five years and 1.5 months?

Stop LYING about the issue. The issue is NOT that we cannot meet our Kyoto targets.

Oh we could meet are kyoto protocol agreements, Give me alot of Ammo and I'll go kill 15 million people...but the question is what can we realistically be expected to accomplish in the next six years with out paralizying our Country.

The issue IS that we are NOT even TRYING to meet our targets.

Well if all we need to do is try, by all means I will personally call up rick mercer for another round of bloody commercials.

The Liberals were awfully slow moving but they put a few programs in place. A small attempt but an attempt nevertheless.

But see they are the ones who are presenting themselves as a bastion of environmental support, they too were worse failures, because they whitled away so much time.

Those programs were promptly canceled by the Cons as soon as they got in power. They came up with this "Clean" Air Act, which is just as clean as "Clean" coal and aromatic dogshit. t is an outrage and an insult - a slap in Canadians' face. We are not as retarded as Harper thinks we are.

I am not here to support the conservatives environmental policy, I just want to see the environ back into the mental policies of the granola munchers.

[Topaz]

I think the provinces are going to take this in their own hands and do something about it! The Con govt is out of touch with reality plus they probably don't want to spend the money on it , there's is a war going on and I'm sure that will eat up any extra of the 5 Billion they have! Like the saying says, "Don't expect anything and you won't be disappointed" I don't expect anything from this govt or the PM! When is the next election???

[Mimas]

In case you haven't noticed, 2012 is still 6 years away.

So you believe that it is realistically possible to reduce our pollution by 40% in five years and 1.5 months?

No, but this is not an excuse to increase them by another 40%.

Stop LYING about the issue. The issue is NOT that we cannot meet our Kyoto targets.

Oh we could meet are kyoto protocol agreements, Give me alot of Ammo and I'll go kill 15 million people...but the question is what can we realistically be expected to accomplish in the next six years with out paralizying our Country.

We can realistically reduce emissions by 10-15% from current emissions. That will still put us far from our targets but it is still a huge improvement compared to increasing emissions by 10-15% which is what will happen under the Cons.

The Liberals were awfully slow moving but they put a few programs in place. A small attempt but an attempt nevertheless.

But see they are the ones who are presenting themselves as a bastion of environmental support, they too were worse failures, because they whitled away so much time.

Just ignore what they present themselves as. We know what they did.

Those programs were promptly canceled by the Cons as soon as they got in power. They came up with this "Clean" Air Act, which is just as clean as "Clean" coal and aromatic dogshit. t is an outrage and an insult - a slap in Canadians' face. We are not as retarded as Harper thinks we are.

I am not here to support the conservatives environmental policy, I just want to see the environ back into the mental policies of the granola munchers.

Blah

[cybercoma]

1) The Liberals signed onto Kyoto

2) The Liberals did nothing as emissions rose

3) The Conservatives, who've had a minority government for less than 12 months, are now being blamed for not meeting the targets

Doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense to me.

[B. Max]

This guy is a communist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Monbiot

I must have missed the reference that he is a Communist.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised. Perhaps I should have said progressive. You can call your self little boy blue, but if you associate with communists or spew communist dogma you are a communist. Monbiot was with Respect, a party that advocates communist type policy, the politics of envy and cultural marxism. Which is economic marxism translated into cultural terms.

[B. Max]

This guy is a communist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Monbiot

My guess would be he's connected with Gorbachev's world communist outfit. Communists did not go away, they simply became watermelons.

http://www.globalgreen.org/

And you are dimented

No, are you.

[Mimas]

So what do Canadians do? Do you support the party that takes action, although very weak? Do you support a party that just pays lip services to a protocol, because it helps them in the polls? Or do you support parties that actually would drag the country back into the stone age to achieve the goals of the Kyoto protocol? No option is great, I would prefer a better option, but right now I haven't really been presented with a realistic plan or alternative...although I wait patiently for one to present itself.

There really are no realistic answers at the present time when world air pollution increases proportionally to ever increasing world population.

Mandatory birth control would make more sense to me rather than waste tax payers money buying useless carbon credits.

I think supporting the Conservatives clean air bill attacks the countries most important form of pollution, smog.

Turning a blind eye to developing nations and their pollution does not make sense.

The Cons clean air bill does nothing for smog for the next 20 years.

Turning a blind eye to the worst polluter of all - the US - makes no sense either. US (and Canadian) emissions are 7 times higher than those of China and more than 15 times higher than those of India. I don't see why you complain about them when the US is an order of magnitude worse.

[cybercoma]

Except the United States reduced their emissions during the time the Liberals were in power...Canada did not.

[Mimas]

1) The Liberals signed onto Kyoto

2) The Liberals did nothing as emissions rose

3) The Conservatives, who've had a minority government for less than 12 months, are now being blamed for not meeting the targets

Doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense to me.

LIEs, SPIN, BS.

2) The Libs did little.

3) The Cons are not blamed for not meeting the targets. They are blamed for destroying the little done by the Libs and for doing absolutely nothing besides blaming the Libs.

4) The Cons just designated 2 clean, fish-bearing lakes to be destroyed and used as a dumping site for toxic waste from the mining industry. It's the first time in Canadian history that a government designates healthy lakes for destruction to convert it into a dumping ground. That make sense to you?

[Canadian Blue]

In case you haven't noticed, 2012 is still 6 years away.

Stop LYING about the issue. The issue is NOT that we cannot meet our Kyoto targets. The issue IS that we are NOT even TRYING to meet our targets.

The Liberals were awfully slow moving but they put a few programs in place. A small attempt but an attempt nevertheless. Those programs were promptly canceled by the Cons as soon as they got in power. They came up with this "Clean" Air Act, which is just as clean as "Clean" coal and aromatic dogshit. It is an outrage and an insult - a slap in Canadians' face. We are not as retarded as Harper thinks we are.

I'm guessing you have all the answers then as to how we can meet Kyoto without hurting our economy. Since you aren't as "retarded" as Harper thinks, why don't you tell us how to do it. It must be awfully simple then right.

Stop calling people liars, and instead bring up how we could have easily met the Kyoto targets. Honestly, bring something to debate instead rambling, try actually bringing about constructive debate. In a democracy people from different viewpoints are allowed to make their views known, including yours whether you like it or not.

The Cons just designated 2 clean, fish-bearing lakes to be destroyed and used as a dumping site for toxic waste from the mining industry. It's the first time in Canadian history that a government designates healthy lakes for destruction to convert it into a dumping ground. That make sense to you?

Back up your statements. I'm still waiting for you to back up your statement about what a Canadian General said regarding Kosovo. Once again back up your statements instead of making claims that could very well be false.

[Canuck E Stan]

Enough already,

I'm getting really tired of hearing environmental critics condemning programs and saying it's not good enough. Anybody can be a critic,even posters here who advocate for environmental causes,critisize the plans and the programs.

Well, YOU,the critic,give me the answer and Your solution to the problem.

Put up or shut up.

All these groups and people mouth off ,but, I haven't read any one of these so called concerned environmentalists giving a viable solution to how to go about achieving any goals quicker than the government's.

And I stress the word VIABLE.

So to all you concerned citizens if you don't like the government's ideas,give me a

better alternative, because if you can't, then you're not part of the solution,you're part of the problem.

[Slavik44]

No, but this is not an excuse to increase them by another 40%.

I agree, kindly point me to where I recomended we do so.

We can realistically reduce emissions by 10-15% from current emissions. That will still put us far from our targets but it is still a huge improvement

I agree, now please show me the party that has this formulated into a plan or policy on their website. The truth is, we don't have a party that admits we canot do 40% in 5-6 years and at the same tme is commited to doing what is realistically possible. We have parties that are commited to doing little, have done little, and are not living in reality. Non eof whihc are good policies.

Just ignore what they present themselves as. We know what they did.

Squandered away a decade's worth of oppurtuities to do something. What makes you so sure they will suddenly change?

Blah

Why is it Blah, to demand a realistic and effective policy? Thats wha tI am asking for, a realistic and effective policy. If any environmentally concerned party, stood up and said, no we cannot meet the Kyoto protocol requirements, but we can do this and we can realistical expect to accomplish this....I would be listening...until then such unattainable and unrealistic policies are nothing more then mental and belong in

the state subsidized looney bin.

[Mimas]

Enough already,

I'm getting really tired of hearing environmental critics condemning programs and saying it's not good enough. Anybody can be a critic,even posters here who advocate for environmental causes,critisize the plans and the programs.

Well, YOU,the critic,give me the answer and Your solution to the problem.

Put up or shut up.

All these groups and people mouth off ,but, I haven't read any one of these so called concerned environmentalists giving a viable solution to how to go about achieving any goals quicker than the government's.

And I stress the word VIABLE.

So to all you concerned citizens if you don't like the government's ideas,give me a

better alternative, because if you can't, then you're not part of the solution,you're part of the problem.

There is a tonne of papers/books written on the issue. But if you can't be bothered to read them or recognize that they even exist, that's your problem, not the environmentalists.

PS. There are 458 thousand hits on google for "conserving energy". There are tons more for conserving electricity, gasoline, etc. Don't tell me that the Liberals have taken away your internet access.

[Mimas]

In case you haven't noticed, 2012 is still 6 years away.

Stop LYING about the issue. The issue is NOT that we cannot meet our Kyoto targets. The issue IS that we are NOT even TRYING to meet our targets.

The Liberals were awfully slow moving but they put a few programs in place. A small attempt but an attempt nevertheless. Those programs were promptly canceled by the Cons as soon as they got in power. They came up with this "Clean" Air Act, which is just as clean as "Clean" coal and aromatic dogshit. It is an outrage and an insult - a slap in Canadians' face. We are not as retarded as Harper thinks we are.

I'm guessing you have all the answers then as to how we can meet Kyoto without hurting our economy. Since you aren't as "retarded" as Harper thinks, why don't you tell us how to do it. It must be awfully simple then right.

Stop calling people liars, and instead bring up how we could have easily met the Kyoto targets. Honestly, bring something to debate instead rambling, try actually bringing about constructive debate. In a democracy people from different viewpoints are allowed to make their views known, including yours whether you like it or not.

The Cons just designated 2 clean, fish-bearing lakes to be destroyed and used as a dumping site for toxic waste from the mining industry. It's the first time in Canadian history that a government designates healthy lakes for destruction to convert it into a dumping ground. That make sense to you?

Back up your statements. I'm still waiting for you to back up your statement about what a Canadian General said regarding Kosovo. Once again back up your statements instead of making claims that could very well be false.

I haven't seen you backing up your statements even once. You can't even show a single credible source that found evidence of genocide in Kosovo. And you want me to dig up something I heard on radio months ago. If you really want it, dig it up yourself from the CBC archives. And I gave you an article with the general's thoughts. I'm surprised you haven't accused him of being a commie.

If I thought that you had the slightest intention to follow any advice on conserving energy, I would give you some. But since I don't think you do, I won't waste my time and let you learn how to properly use google.

[Mimas]

Except the United States reduced their emissions during the time the Liberals were in power...Canada did not.

Sure they did. Haha.

[Canadian Blue]

I haven't seen you backing up your statements even once. You can't even show a single credible source that found evidence of genocide in Kosovo. And you want me to dig up something I heard on radio months ago. If you really want it, dig it up yourself from the CBC archives. And I gave you an article with the general's thoughts. I'm surprised you haven't accused him of being a commie.

If I thought that you had the slightest intention to follow any advice on conserving energy, I would give you some. But since I don't think you do, I won't waste my time and let you learn how to properly use google.

You never provided the link, if you did then provide it.

And you want me to dig up something I heard on radio months ago.

So its not credible. If it was on the radio, I'm sure you can find the source on a numerous number of websites including wikipedia.org, so instead of getting me to try to back up your arguments, why don't you do it yourself.

As for google, I have provided more statements based on sources then you have so far, and provided ybou with four links dealing with human rights abuses in the former Yugoslavia. As for me accusing the general of being a commie, thats a nice generalization coming from somebody who has yet to accuse anybody of disagreeing with me a commie, unlike a certain other member.

This is supposed to be a place for debate, not for people to act like 12 year olds and engage in constant name calling. So far your response to everybody that disagrees with you is either "Your Lying", "Shut Up", "Your Demented", or "Your Retarded".

I don't see how any of this helps the forum in any way and only adds to the problems we currently have with partisan trolling, name calling, and ineffective debate.

So far all you have done is provide hollow rhetoric, which you constantly fail to back up. As well your obvious intention's are to inflame members so as to solicit a negative response.

[Mimas]

I haven't seen you backing up your statements even once. You can't even show a single credible source that found evidence of genocide in Kosovo. And you want me to dig up something I heard on radio months ago. If you really want it, dig it up yourself from the CBC archives. And I gave you an article with the general's thoughts. I'm surprised you haven't accused him of being a commie.

If I thought that you had the slightest intention to follow any advice on conserving energy, I would give you some. But since I don't think you do, I won't waste my time and let you learn how to properly use google.

You never provided the link, if you did then provide it.

As for google, I have provided more statements based on sources then you have so far, and provided ybou with four links dealing with human rights abuses in the former Yugoslavia. As for me accusing the general of being a commie, thats a nice generalization coming from somebody who has yet to accuse anybody of disagreeing with me a commie, unlike a certain other member.

This is supposed to be a place for debate, not for people to act like 12 year olds and engage in constant name calling. So far your response to everybody that disagrees with you is either "Your Lying", "Shut Up", "Your Demented", or "Your Retarded".

I don't see how any of this helps the forum in any way and only adds to the problems we currently have with partisan trolling, name calling, and ineffective debate.

I gave you links for everything I said when you asked for sources. The fact that you didn't bother to read them means that you didn't want them in the first place. If you want reasonable debate, you should at least read sources provided by those you are debating with. So far you haven't shown any interest in doing so. I don't see how this helps the forum either.