Where Is The Prime Minister In Time Of Need

RScott · October 3, 2003

Ok isn't time for Jean to hang up his hat? His arogance and demeanor is no better than Brian Mulroney when he was about to leave office.

We have major diaster in the martimes and the PM hops a plane to BC. Go figure, a time when he should be in the Maritimes showing federal support and ensuring that federal aid get's there in a timely and proficent manner. I tell you this old style government has got to go!

Hang up your Hat, PM and get your ass back to Quebec!

Boydfish · October 3, 2003

Trust me, given half a chance, British Columbians would gladly ship your Prime Minister back to Canada.

RScott · October 3, 2003

Trust me, given half a chance, British Columbians would gladly ship your Prime Minister back to Canada.

This is not my PM!

And I for one consider West A very Big Part of CANADA! And I would fully agree that Westner and Eastern Canada, i.e. Martimes and Atlantic Canada do not get fair representation in Government.

So as they say in Cape Breton Down with the Liberals, UP with Canadian Alliance by's

Mr. Chater · October 3, 2003

Ok isn't time for Jean to hang up his hat? His arogance and demeanor is no better than Brian Mulroney when he was about to leave office.
We have major diaster in the martimes and the PM hops a plane to BC. Go figure, a time when he should be in the Maritimes showing federal support and ensuring that federal aid get's there in a timely and proficent manner. I tell you this old style government has got to go!

Hang up your Hat, PM and get your ass back to Quebec!

haha, yeah. Instead they send Mr. Martin down here...go figures..

Boydfish · October 3, 2003

And I for one consider West A very Big Part of CANADA! And I would fully agree that Westner and Eastern Canada, i.e. Martimes and Atlantic Canada do not get fair representation in Government.

Consider the western nations as big a part of "Canada" as you wish. We stopped being Canadian a long time ago. British Columbia is a Pacific Rim nation; I have no clue what you Canadians have become. I think it's something that is supposed to be like France, but only more so. I might check into it, but Canada isn't a really important topic to British Columbians, so why bother?

westcoast99 · October 3, 2003

And I for one consider West A very Big Part of CANADA! And I would fully agree that Westner and Eastern Canada, i.e. Martimes and Atlantic Canada do not get fair representation in Government.

Consider the western nations as big a part of "Canada" as you wish. We stopped being Canadian a long time ago. British Columbia is a Pacific Rim nation; I have no clue what you Canadians have become. I think it's something that is supposed to be like France, but only more so. I might check into it, but Canada isn't a really important topic to British Columbians, so why bother?

Edited August 11, 2015 by Gugsy

RScott · October 3, 2003

Consider the western nations as big a part of "Canada" as you wish. We stopped being Canadian a long time ago. British Columbia is a Pacific Rim nation; I have no clue what you Canadians have become. I think it's something that is supposed to be like France, but only more so. I might check into it, but Canada isn't a really important topic to British Columbians, so why bother?

Man what kind of grass you guys growing out there, must be some mind altering powerfull. You really are not of this world if you don't think BC belongs in Canada.

:wub:

Neal.F. · October 3, 2003

Gugsy, I agreee that calling the the legislature L'Assemblée Nationale is going a bit far, but as for calling the Premier "Le Premier ministre" it's a linguistic thing. In English, Le Premier ministre is referred to as the "premier"

And as for Crouton, he's retiring to Ottawa. thank God we don't have to take him back here. Good riddance to the sorry old bastard.

His behaviour with regard to the disaster in Halifax is inexcusable, and soooooo typical Chretien. Remember how the little crud decided that going skiing at Whistler was more impotrant than attending King Hussein's funeral..... Boris Yeltsin showed up though he was ill, but Crouton decided breaking the powder at dawn was more important than Canada's image abroad. He and that puked up excuse of a foreign minister have managed to turn canada into a pygmie on the world stage. Then where was the little turd during the balckout? Who knows for sure, but getting flunkies to scribble out notes by candlelight cannot be described as leadership.

If that's not enough, the little crud is now musing about trying pot once he and his last loyalist Martin Cochon legalize it.

If the Liberal party has any sense left, which i doubt, they'll oust the arrogant little weasel at their convention. The good of the party be damned , it's for the good of the country!

westcoast99 · October 3, 2003

Gugsy, I agreee that calling the the legislature L'Assemblée Nationale is going a bit far, but as for calling the Premier "Le Premier ministre" it's a linguistic thing. In English, Le Premier ministre is referred to as the "premier"

Edited August 11, 2015 by Gugsy

Neal.F. · October 3, 2003

I've never heard that, even from the CBC....

Interestingly, the CBC's Judy Madron issued a memo to all CBC outlets this morning counselling them NOT to use teh term Premier-elect, or premier-designate for Mr McGuinty or any other. To be Premier elect, it would have to be only in a case where the premier is elected by separate ballot as in Israel. Premier designate would refer to an appointed Premier who was waiting to be sworn in.

Semantics ......

Boydfish · October 3, 2003

Gugsy, of course British Columbia is part of the Canadian confederation. The problem is that you're using two terms interchangibly that are not really interchangible. "Canada" is the area roughly clustered around the north shore of the Great Lakes and along the St.Lawrence Seaway. The "Canadian confederation", on the other hand is what people mainly as a convienience refer to as "Canada". The best way to explain it with a parallel, as this is where it's rooted from, is that the British Empire had several sub-nations(Including the Canadian confederation and several of it's member nations), but only Great Britain was actually "British".

Are British Columbians "Canadian"? Not even close. The Canadians define themselves by several methods, depending on who you ask, both inside and outside of Canada. I don't tend to buy into the idea that Canadians(Or British Columbians for that matter)are simply "not American" in terms of defining their respective cultures.

The one careful point to remember is that British Columbians and Canadians will have some obvious similarities, as both nations sprang from the British Empire. The easiest way that you can eliminate these similarities is by what I call the Australian Method: If the national trait is shared by the Canadians, the British Columbians and the Australians, then it's due to our shared cultural roots, not because British Columbians lack of a national identity.

So, can you make one point of common culture that British Columbians share with Canadians that we don't also share with the Australians?

You're just as bad as Québec calling is legislature the "national assembly" and calling their premier "Prime minister".

First, as was mentioned, it's a lingustic difference. Premier literally translated means Prime Minister. Second, perhaps you're unaware, but the current office of "Premier of British Columbia" was officially called "Prime Minister of British Columbia" until the mid-1950's. Third, you'll note that British Columbia's Legislature has a vastly different design from the other provincial government houses. The reason is that with one or two exceptions, they were designed with the Canadian Parliament as an inspiration; British Columbia's Legislature in Victoria was built while we were an independent Crown colony with our own government and is based on Westminster, not Ottawa.

Seperatism is non-existant in BC,

I'm going to shock you with this one, but you're right. Seperatism is non-existant in British Columbia. That's because you're trying to apply an internal Canadian concept about Lower Canada to British Columbia. British Columbians are a maritime trading nation; the idea of walling ourselves off from it to sit and perfect new ways to be "more" British Columbian is laughable.

What you're seeing, and the Canadian Prime Minister-elect Paul Martin is calling "western alienation", is in fact simply British Columbian nationalism. Trying to make the internal issues of the Upper v. Lower Canadians interchangible with British Columbian nationalism is foolish.

and if not non-existant, no greater than it is in every province, and every American state.

So your arguement is that it's non-existant, but that it does exist? Have you considered talking to your doctor about adjusting your medication?

Do you talk like at coffee shops? As though you're little fantasy world is reality? People must think you're crazy.

I don't spend an inordinate amount of time in coffee shops. I work in a government consulting role and have my family responsibilities on top of that. In talking to people like that, you know, with mortgages, careers of actual responsibility and actual life experience, you'd be amazed at how much the Canadian government and Canadians in general are viewed with scorn by British Columbians. My views tend to be quite moderate compared to some of the ones out there. I think that British Columbia should refine it's relationship with the Canadians, much like the Canadians and Australians did with Britain, rather than like the USAmericans did.

westcoast99 · October 4, 2003

This vast nation which spreads from Newfoundland and Labrador to British Columbia.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Gugsy

SirRiff · October 5, 2003

any satellite region of a nation feels anger at what it perceives as being ignored, or undervalued, or whatever.

it happens all throughout history, it happens in provinces, hell it happens in families and businesses.

its natural.

but its just the way people create psychological scapegoats for the vague feelings of injustice that we all have. whether its minorities blaming "the man" or the poor blaming wall street tycoons, people need some foreign force to lump together the less definitely injustices they feel.

BC is Canada.

Canada is BC.

SirRiff

Boydfish · October 5, 2003

Canada and "Canadian confederation" are interchangable, as they are the same this. This vast nation which spreads from Newfoundland and Labrador to British Columbia

You're confusing opinion, in specific, yours, with fact. The simple facts are that a confederation is by definition a collection of nations. The Canadian confederation, which is made up of 10 nations and three territorial possessions. In other words, if British Columbia isn't a nation, then Canada isn't a confederation.

You see Boydfish, British Columbians define themselves as Canadians, just as Newfoundlanders do as well

You're attempting to create an absolute situation and statement where none exists. Are there British Columbians who define themselves as Canadians first? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean that all do.

As well, the vast majority of Canadians in both Upper and Lower Canada defined themselves as simply British people living in North America all the way from 1867 to the late 1950's.

British Columbia is part of the nation of Canada, they are not seperate.

British Columbia is a nation in it's own right and is also part of the Canadian confederation. If they are not seperate entities, why is there a British Columbian Legislature? Why do we have a Vice-Regal Head of State in British Columbia? Why does that government carry on relations with both the Canadian government and other governments as well?

This is one of the pivotal points of difference between what British Columbians and Canadians see as the point of the Canadian confederation: British Columbian perspectives see the confederation as an entity created by the provincial governments, while the Canadians(Read Ontario and Quebec)see the confederation as a management tool for the other provinces.

The boundaries of 1870 no longer exist, sir.

Read a map lately? They do exist. If they didn't exist, why do we have them?

any satellite region of a nation feels anger at what it perceives as being ignored, or undervalued, or whatever.
it happens all throughout history, it happens in provinces, hell it happens in families and businesses.

its natural.

Uh-huh. Care to note what happens in those circumstances in history? Here's a hint: Government devolves to the local authority.

but its just the way people create psychological scapegoats for the vague feelings of injustice that we all have. whether its minorities blaming "the man" or the poor blaming wall street tycoons, people need some foreign force to lump together the less definitely injustices they feel.

Who was talking about "injustices"? You're attempting to link British Columbian nationalism with a dislike of Canadians. No such link exists. British Columbians are proud to be British Columbians. The simple fact is that Canada and Canadians don't have enough of a presence in British Columbia to be hated, disliked or even noticed for the most part.

You do make an interesting point, however: The Canadians seem to have an incredibly hypocritical world view about self-determination, both in practice and theory. For the Canadians, finding out that British Columbians would kind of like to have the exact same opportunity to self-determination that the British government gave them seems to spell some dire insult to them. Britain and the Canadians parted ways as friends, a relationship that has benefited both greatly. Now that British Columbia would like the same opportunity, the Canadians get bent out of shape.

BC is Canada.

Based on that theory, since the percentage of British Columbia's Cantonese speaking minority is larger than the french speaking minority across the Canadian confederation, can you direct me to the section of your constitution that provides them with official language status?

BC has similarities to Canada, for sure, but if you can't see the difference between Ontario/Quebec and British Columbia, or BC and Alberta for that matter, you're blind.

Canada is BC.

So, now your position is that all of Canada is exactly like BC? Your two statements are running exactly counter to each other.

I do find it interesting that both of you could only provide questionable rhetoric, but failed to answer the question that I posed in a roundabout way:

Name something that British Columbians share with the Canadians that we don't also share with the Australians.

While you two dodge that question, I'll also ask another:

Assuming that British Columbians and Canadians are considered equal, if it was a good idea to have Canadians obtain self rule from the British in 1867 due to the distance and growing differences between the two, why doesn't that same logic hold true for Victoria to have self-determination from Ottawa?