Exposing the culprits

[cybercoma]

And I can't find a single thing on the court case, let alone that he was convicted.

[jdobbin]

And I can't find a single thing on the court case, let alone that he was convicted.

Last I heard it was still making its way through the system.

He cites David Deming who has been challenged by his own university department.

http://www.normantranscript.com/opinion/lo...=secondarystory

[jdobbin]

Do you have a link to that? Your link merely says he's being investigated regarding illegal immigration.

In any event, I think you might consider the facts of his statement and refute them, rather than simply dismissing him. The latter is less convincing.

All I remember seeing was the Times articles and hearing that the whole thing was still working its way through the system.

At any rate, when I saw him citing David Deming, I knew where his work was coming from.

[cybercoma]

And I can't find a single thing on the court case, let alone that he was convicted.

Last I heard it was still making its way through the system.

He cites David Deming who has been challenged by his own university department.

http://www.normantranscript.com/opinion/lo...=secondarystory

Are you citing a professor of psychology in a discussion on the science of the environment?

Some things he writes:

It reflects poor science and poor citizenship.

belief in global warming, even if incorrect, is like a fail-safe system.

I'll conclude with some comments that reflect my personal values.

It leads to backyard vegetable gardens, farmers markets, and local commerce.

Environmentalism should be the least partisan of all of our modern issues. Responsible citizens -- both Democrats and Republicans -- are aware of that.

The larger call comes when, as individual citizens of Norman and Oklahoma, we manage our homes, our cars, and teach our children environmental responsibility -- and of course when we walk into the voting booth.

Everything this guy says is based on his personal beliefs that globalization and capitalism are EVIL. These politics are the reason the founder of Greenpeace left the organization.

With this attitude it's no wonder he wants so badly to discredit Demings. He's a commie in environmentalist clothing.

[jdobbin]

With this attitude it's no wonder he wants so badly to discredit Demings. He's a commie in environmentalist clothing.

Medeival Warming Period (MWP) was a localized event to Europe. This has been talked about many times before. China also had a localized warming period. Demings knows all this yet used it to argue his case.

[B. Max]

With this attitude it's no wonder he wants so badly to discredit Demings. He's a commie in environmentalist clothing.

Medeival Warming Period (MWP) was a localized event to Europe. This has been talked about many times before. China also had a localized warming period. Demings knows all this yet used it to argue his case.

Not according to this.

http://sharpgary.org/400-1294AD.html

[jdobbin]

Not according to this.

http://sharpgary.org/400-1294AD.html

It wasn't global.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period

[B. Max]

Not according to this.

http://sharpgary.org/400-1294AD.html

It wasn't global.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period

The evidence suggests it was.

[jdobbin]

The evidence suggests it was.

I haven't seen any evidence or anyone credible say that this period was global.

[B. Max]

The evidence suggests it was.

I haven't seen any evidence or anyone credible say that this period was global.

Well I guess you didn't look at the link.

[watching&waiting]

You know I am looking at this and all I am seeing is that people want to simply discredit the whole thing because this person was involved with fraud in 2004. So what, most of the leaders today have been either found guilty of similar offences or have had the charges mysteriosly disappear. The who thing should be looked at on the level of what it brings to the golbal warming table. If the facts and issues are fraudulent then it should be found to be so only after looking at what it is and how it was derrived at.

Very few of the worlds scientists dare say anything about what they truly feel about global warming and most are arfraid that their grants will disappear if the enter into the fray. But they say loads by the fact that the majority of them refuse to say anything one way or another. Since the goverments of the day are more leaning towards the ECO groups view, many if they agreed would speak out in favour. The fact that most are quiet would mean they probably do not agree in whole with the ECO groups view, but know that simple speech now could put them out of work tomorrow. I personally do not think that Canada really has a big problem with the environment, and even if we stooped producing all greenhouse gases to morrow we would not see it in any measureable way. It would be along the lines of about one thosandth of a percent, and that would be only after many years of complete greenhouse gas elimination.

There are so many things that cause the changes that we see today that to pick man made influence out of the thousands of causes and then try to make the numbers crunch is not science, but rather alarmism. Even the ECO scientist admit that if everything stopped tomorrow, we would not see any differences for many years. If people want to see fraud, just look at the scientists for the ECO groups. They make their living from being alarmist and only with that will they keep grant money coming to them. Yet they will not go on the limb and say that these things are hard scientific fact. They always say the models show this or that, but never going any further to stake their lifes work on it.

So, if you are open minded and hopefully you should be, then lookmat all the data not just what you think validates your own view and then with all being looked at then see if you can come to any solid con clusions. I think you will find that right now there just is a huge amount of doubt from both sides, and with that much doubt, you should keep the money in reserve until we do know the way to go. Not spend it all now and then find out later it was the wrong place and then have nothing later to follow the right path.

[jdobbin]

Well I guess you didn't look at the link.

Looked at it but it doesn't have any sources to back it up. No peer reviewed work. No authority. No credibility.

[jdobbin]

So, if you are open minded and hopefully you should be, then lookmat all the data not just what you think validates your own view and then with all being looked at then see if you can come to any solid con clusions. I think you will find that right now there just is a huge amount of doubt from both sides, and with that much doubt, you should keep the money in reserve until we do know the way to go. Not spend it all now and then find out later it was the wrong place and then have nothing later to follow the right path.

I see skeptics but no science. Show me the science. Show me a movement of science that backs up the skeptical claims. Show some peer reviewed work instead of some so-called journalists getting paid as lobbyists. Or retired scientists who have not done any research in a long time. Deming from the article quoted doesn't even have a body of peer reviewed work that supports his argument.

[B. Max]

If we can go by what jdobbin say's this must prove Blair has no credibility, and since he has been duped by the gloom and doom industry, they also would have no credibility.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2426786,00.html

[cybercoma]

Medeival Warming Period (MWP) was a localized event to Europe. This has been talked about many times before. China also had a localized warming period. Demings knows all this yet used it to argue his case.

Were these localized periods caused by CO2 concentrations?

[jdobbin]

If we can go by what jdobbin say's this must prove Blair has no credibility, and since he has been duped by the gloom and doom industry, they also would have no credibility.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2426786,00.html

Blair was also duped by the U.S. and by Intelligence to go into Iraq.

I have no particular love for his politics.

I don't think Stern is a dupe though.

[jdobbin]

Were these localized periods caused by CO2 concentrations?

Several causes have been cited for localized events including volcanoes, ocean currents, etc. The European warming was not global according.

[cybercoma]

Were these localized periods caused by CO2 concentrations?

Several causes have been cited for localized events including volcanoes, ocean currents, etc. The European warming was not global according.

It was localized to Europe and Asia....which covers a huge chunk of the planet. Interesting.

[jdobbin]

It was localized to Europe and Asia....which covers a huge chunk of the planet. Interesting.

Not at the same time though.

[B. Max]

I have no particular love for his politics.

I don't think Stern is a dupe though.

Actually Blair wasn't, they had their own intelligence. As far as Stern goes, it looks more like he is a duper.

http://www.thebusinessonline.com/Document....81-687746BE6F0A

[jdobbin]

Actually Blair wasn't, they had their own intelligence. As far as Stern goes, it looks more like he is a duper.

http://www.thebusinessonline.com/Document....81-687746BE6F0A

The drive to attack Iraq came from the U.S.

Blair deserves his share of the blame for Iraq as well.

As far as Stern goes, I never expected OPEC to embrace it nor right wing American think thanks.

The U.N. committee could very well be accurate about the additional costs. Stern had a worse case scenario that had those same numbers in place.

[B. Max]

Actually Blair wasn't, they had their own intelligence. As far as Stern goes, it looks more like he is a duper.

http://www.thebusinessonline.com/Document....81-687746BE6F0A

The drive to attack Iraq came from the U.S.

Blair deserves his share of the blame for Iraq as well.

As far as Stern goes, I never expected OPEC to embrace it not right wing American think thanks.

The U.N. committee could very well be accurate about the additional costs. Stern had a worse case scenario that had those same numbers in place.

From what I read Stern never even wrote a lot of the report. He has no credibilty.

[jdobbin]

From what I read Stern never even wrote a lot of the report. He has no credibilty.

What is your source?

[B. Max]

What is your source?

Right from the horses mouth, or the other end depending on your point of view.

http://www.tyndall.ac.uk/media/news/latest_news.shtml

[jdobbin]

Right from the horses mouth, or the other end depending on your point of view.

http://www.tyndall.ac.uk/media/news/latest_news.shtml

The Tyndall people contributed 27 pages of evidence. They didn't write the report.