Ipsos-reid Poll

[jdobbin]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/canada_politics_can_col

Same old, same old. Tories don't really gain. Liberals don't really lose.

Support hasn't fallen because of the income trust.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Tories don't really gain. Liberals don't really lose.

Not hard to tell where your bias comes from with that statement.

Leaving it at same old, same old said all that had to be said, but .....

Despite all the Conservative 'scandals' MacKay, Income Trust, people are still in a holding pattern.

It will all come down to the campaigning skills of the next Liberal leader. Harper has proven what he can do.

Rae is a formidable opponent. The rest of them? Hello Conservative majority

[jdobbin]

"We've locked ourselves into this kind of minority scenario," Bricker (Ipsos Redi) said. "The good news for the Liberals is that they have not dropped off the face of the planet, and the bad news for the Conservatives is that they haven't been able to break out of this."

[Ricki Bobbi]

So you support your selective statement aimed at making this no-change poll look as bad as possible for the Conservatives by picking the "worst" quote you could find in the poll about the Conservatives?

How about this quote then?

"There is a lot of sound and fury out there about a number of issues, but it does not seem to have percolated down into affecting partisan choice," Ipsos-Reid pollster Darrell Bricker told the paper.

Given the multiple anti-Conservative threads on the board about Income Trust this seems like pretty good news for the Prime Minister.

[normanchateau]

It will all come down to the campaigning skills of the next Liberal leader. Harper has proven what he can do.

Yes, Harper has proven what he can do which is why, no matter who leads the Liberals, Harper won't win a majority. He'll either lose or win another minority at which point even Cons will begin looking for a new leader.

And I predict that the next leader won't be a social conservative. Not all Canadians have forgotten that Harper and the other former Reform/Alliance members of the current Conservative party voted against including sexual orientation in hate crimes legislation. To me, excluding gay bashing from hate crimes legislation is even more homophobic than voting against same-sex marriage. If the Cons are smart, their next leader will be a fiscal conservative, not a homophobic, social conservative. They might even increase their number of seats in Quebec and BC if they do so.

[gerryhatrick]

Besides the accusation of bias, shouldn't we also be complaining about cross posting? There are other topics already existing for polls.

/sarcasm

[jdobbin]

Besides the accusation of bias, shouldn't we also be complaining about cross posting? There are other topics already existing for polls.

/sarcasm

I apologized for that and placed the polling info in the polls thread. Hit the wrong button when I originally posted this.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Yes, Harper has proven what he can do which is why, no matter who leads the Liberals, Harper won't win a majority. He'll either lose or win another minority at which point even Cons will begin looking for a new leader.

And I predict that the next leader won't be a social conservative. Not all Canadians have forgotten that Harper and the other former Reform/Alliance members of the current Conservative party voted against including sexual orientation in hate crimes legislation. To me, excluding gay bashing from hate crimes legislation is even more homophobic than voting against same-sex marriage. If the Cons are smart, their next leader will be a fiscal conservative, not a homophobic, social conservative. They might even increase their number of seats in Quebec and BC if they do so.

Here's what he did.

Took over the weak Canadian Alliance in 2002 when everybody thought they were a joke. Hell even I didn't vote for Stockwell Day. That man as PM? *shudder*

Brought about the merger of the Alliance with the PCs after over a decade of divide that appeared to be handing the Liberals power in perpetuity.

Held Paul Martin to a minority in the 2004 election when PM Dithers' braint trust was publicly musing about a 'record majority'.

Gotta love the GLBT lobby. The homophobic issue is dead. Harper promised a free-vote in Parliament on the issue. It will happen, and it will lose. SSM will stay. End of story. Mulroney did the same thing with abortion in 1985. Hasn't been an issue since.

The old Harper is *scary, scary, scary* line is old and sad.

The Conservatives still have more seats in BC than anybody else...

[gerryhatrick]

Besides the accusation of bias, shouldn't we also be complaining about cross posting? There are other topics already existing for polls.

/sarcasm

I apologized for that and placed the polling info in the polls thread. Hit the wrong button when I originally posted this.

No need to apologize, I was kidding. It's a new poll, and you can post a new thread. There is no thread that all polls need to be posted to.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Besides the accusation of bias, shouldn't we also be complaining about cross posting? There are other topics already existing for polls.

/sarcasm

I apologized for that and placed the polling info in the polls thread. Hit the wrong button when I originally posted this.

No need to apologize, I was kidding. It's a new poll, and you can post a new thread. There is no thread that all polls need to be posted to.

He shouldn't you anti-Harperistas work together in forming a united front?

Good contribution ... as usual Gerry.

[gerryhatrick]

Besides the accusation of bias, shouldn't we also be complaining about cross posting? There are other topics already existing for polls.

/sarcasm

I apologized for that and placed the polling info in the polls thread. Hit the wrong button when I originally posted this.

No need to apologize, I was kidding. It's a new poll, and you can post a new thread. There is no thread that all polls need to be posted to.

He shouldn't you anti-Harperistas work together in forming a united front?

Good contribution ... as usual Gerry.

No different than your stupid accusation of bias Mr. Ricki.

And how about you stow the name-calling. People on this board are beyond sick of it.

[Ricki Bobbi]

No different than your stupid accusation of bias Mr. Ricki.

And how about you stow the name-calling. People on this board are beyond sick of it.

What people on this board are sick of is your inappropriate language, knee-jerk anti-Harperism without thought or an attempt to consider other people's opinions.

If you want a free ride to attack Harper go to Rabble...

[normanchateau]

Here's what he did.

Brought about the merger of the Alliance with the PCs after over a decade of divide that appeared to be handing the Liberals power in perpetuity.

He was involved in the merger but I think you're stretching it to say he brought it about. Key backroom players in merging the two parties were Brian Mulroney, Belinda Stronach and of course, the backstabbing MacKay.

[Ricki Bobbi]

He was involved in the merger but I think you're stretching it to say he brought it about. Key backroom players in merging the two parties were Brian Mulroney, Belinda Stronach and of course, the backstabbing MacKay.

He was definitely a "key backroom player" in the mergers as you discussed. How could the only "key backroom players" in a merger of two parties all be from the same party?

[Wilber]

To me, excluding gay bashing from hate crimes legislation is even more homophobic than voting against same-sex marriage.

The only reason we need hate crimes legislation is because our weak kneed judiciary don't treat violence against anyone with the seriousness it requires. Why does a violent act against a gay person require more attention under the law than a violent act against one who is straight?

[normanchateau]

The homophobic issue is dead. Harper promised a free-vote in Parliament on the issue. It will happen, and it will lose. SSM will stay. End of story. Mulroney did the same thing with abortion in 1985. Hasn't been an issue since.

The old Harper is *scary, scary, scary* line is old and sad.

The Conservatives still have more seats in BC than anybody else...

The homophobe issue might be dead in the minds of Conservatives but not all Canadians are Conservatives and many still remember that Harper voted against including gay bashing in hate crimes legislation. Harper's vehement opposition to including sexual orientation in hate crimes legislation is even less defensible than his opposition to ssm.

Harper has not changed his position on either gay bashing hate crimes or same-sex marriage.

Sorry that you view stating this as "old and sad" but that's what happens when your party leader is a homophobic so-con and the other party leaders are not.

The Conservatives do have more seats than any other party in BC but they lost at least three seats to the Liberals in the January, 2006 election and Chuck Cadman's seat went to the NDP.

[normanchateau]

To me, excluding gay bashing from hate crimes legislation is even more homophobic than voting against same-sex marriage.

The only reason we need hate crimes legislation is because our weak kneed judiciary don't treat violence against anyone with the seriousness it requires. Why does a violent act against a gay person require more attention under the law than a violent act against one who is straight?

You are raising a different but very important issue, namely, why do we need hate crimes legislation.

Had Harper said he opposed hate crimes legislation per se, I would have no problem with that position. But in fact he said he favoured hate crimes legislation for race, ethnicity and religion but not for sexual orientation.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Harper has not changed his position on either gay bashing hate crimes or same-sex marriage.

Sorry that you view stating this as "old and sad" but that's what happens when your party leader is a homophobic so-con and the other party leaders are not.

The Conservatives do have more seats than any other party in BC but they lost at least three seats to the Liberals in the January, 2006 election and Chuck Cadman's seat went to the NDP.

49% of Canadians opposed SSM at the time it was passed in Parliament.

Call them 'homophobes' all you want. It just cheapens the debate and shows how old and sad your argument is.

Wow the Conservatives lost a total of four seats in the closest three-way province in the country while picking up 28 seats in the rest of the county.

Get this straight normie. The vast majority of Canadians aren't members of the GLBT community. Members of the community will never vote for Harper. He gets that and doesn't really care. Why should he? The rights of members of the community are protected and no efforts have been made to remove them.

[gerryhatrick]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/canada_politics_can_col

Same old, same old. Tories don't really gain. Liberals don't really lose.

Support hasn't fallen because of the income trust.

The poll included a day prior to the announcement. The day of the announcement, I wouldn't expect any blip at all.

I would wait for another poll before making any conclusions about the impact of the income trust decision.

[Ricki Bobbi]

The poll included a day prior to the announcement. The day of the announcement, I wouldn't expect any blip at all.

I would wait for another poll before making any conclusions about the impact of the income trust decision.

For a three day poll I would think it definitely would show the way it played out.

Most polling calls are made in the evening hours. When most people would have had the chance to hear the income trust decision. The people most likely effected would be the ones most likely to follow the news closely enough to probably know about it by the time they got home ... when the pollsters would have called on the second day of the poll.

The third evening of calls would have been after the story had been in the papers and everybody would have known.

Assuming roughly equal numbers of people were spoken to on each day. No guarantees of that but it is an industry rule of thumb.

[jdobbin]

The poll included a day prior to the announcement. The day of the announcement, I wouldn't expect any blip at all.

I would wait for another poll before making any conclusions about the impact of the income trust decision.

It why I said same old, same old. No change. Even the pollster said no one up and no one down. Seems some people think this poll means Conservative majority though. I never read that in the comments but get accused of bias for saying no change?

Glad I continue to have the ignore button on so I can skip over the personalized commentary.

[Ricki Bobbi]

It why I said same old, same old. No change. Even the pollster said no one up and no one down. Seems some people think this poll means Conservative majority though. I never read that in the comments but get accused of bias for saying no change?

Glad I continue to have the ignore button on so I can skip over the personalized commentary.

You didn't have ignore on when you started the thread.

Take a look at my response to your original post. Nothing personal at all. Just asked why you portrayed a "same old, same old' poll as being pro-Liberal and anti-Conservative. Valid question. You ignored it.

[normanchateau]

Get this straight normie. The vast majority of Canadians aren't members of the GLBT community. Members of the community will never vote for Harper. He gets that and doesn't really care. Why should he? The rights of members of the community are protected and no efforts have been made to remove them.

I think you assume that only members of the GLBT community actually care about Harper's attitudes towards them. I'm not a member of that community but I certainly share their revulsion of Harper. It's understandable given that he not only tried to deny them marriage rights but he also tried to deny them the right to be included in hate crimes legislation despite the fact that there is gay bashing and discrimination against them.

What if 99% of Canadians were white and only 1% belonged to another race. What if that 1% will never vote for Harper. Should we deny the 1% marriage rights and exclude race from hate crimes legislation? Sounds like an absurd question but substitute sexual orientation for race. Whether you like it or not, Harper did vote against allowing lesbians to marry and he did vote against including them in hate crimes legislation. And his position has not changed. The rights of this community he discriminates against are protected because the NDP, BQ and Liberals voted differently than Harper.

[Ricki Bobbi]

I think you assume that only members of the GLBT community actually care about Harper's attitudes towards them. I'm not a member of that community but I certainly share their revulsion of Harper. It's understandable given that he not only tried to deny them marriage rights but he also tried to deny them the right to be included in hate crimes legislation despite the fact that there is gay bashing and discrimination against them.

There is legislation against gay bashing. It is called assault and battery.

There is a difference between caring about a politician's attitude on an issue and deciding your vote based on it.

Once the vote comes and the issue is declared dead it will only be an issue for the less than 5% of Canadians who belong to, the GLBT community or liek you share a 'revulsion' to Harper.

Many Canadians don't like the man and don't vote for him. But revulsion? Come on...

[normanchateau]

I think you assume that only members of the GLBT community actually care about Harper's attitudes towards them. I'm not a member of that community but I certainly share their revulsion of Harper. It's understandable given that he not only tried to deny them marriage rights but he also tried to deny them the right to be included in hate crimes legislation despite the fact that there is gay bashing and discrimination against them.

There is legislation against gay bashing. It is called assault and battery.

There is legislation against attacking any person, whatever their race, religion or ethnicity but Harper has no problems with hate crime legislation on those grounds.