normanchateau Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 ... It is delusional if not hallucinatory for Hamas, after the nation of Israel has legally existed for multiple generations and 58 years, to claim that the same nation should not exist. I agree that it's impractical to an almost delusional extent to think the creation of Israel it can be undone. It would also require crimes against humanity to do it. But that doesn't sweep Hamas into the category of delusion of Mein Kampf, and it doesn't mean that Hamas' position is unintelligibly nonsensical Mein Kampf provided multiple reasons, which were convincing to many Germans, why re-taking eastern territories now belonging to someone else, was perfectly justified. In some cases, Hitler was talking about territories lost by Germany less than a decade prior to the writing of Mein Kampf. Hamas is talking about 58 years ago...more delusional than Mein Kampf in that respect. Quote
M.Dancer Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 Personal MessageFigleaf fuck off, Today, 11:38 AM Obscuring art in the service of censorship Group: Members Posts: 698 Member No.: 2091 Joined: 31-July 06 you're a dirty sack of shit. Yes I am.....but at least I don't make up exscuses for suicide bombers pretend that Hamas is no different than the conservatives. What is your motive for pursuing this outrageous set of slanders against me? I may be an asshole, ... You said it. .....but at least I'm not rationalizing suicide bombings....."outrageous set of slanders" ha...are you by any chance PMSing? Because your hysterical outbursts are proving humourous..... Slander is the spoken word, you are thinking (perhaps) ofLibel. Libel is the written word. And in either case, you have to show how it has hurt your reputation, and as far as I can see it, your reputation for defending Hamas, hezbollah etc, is rock solid. Take another tissue....... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Figleaf Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 ...I'm not rationalizing suicide bombings..... Nor am I. Your suggestion that I did is a false, inexplicable, malicious slur. Your conduct is bizarre. Is there any limit to how vicious and unfair I can expect you to become? If you knew my name would you come gunning for me? Quote
M.Dancer Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 ...I'm not rationalizing suicide bombings..... Nor am I. Your suggestion that I did is a false, inexplicable, malicious slur. Your conduct is bizarre. Is there any limit to how vicious and unfair I can expect you to become? If you knew my name would you come gunning for me? Take a valium Doris.....your hysteria doesn't need paranoia as company.......as to your rationalization of terror, you seem incapable of understanding your own words, and appaled when they are explained to you. You seem to think that equating a terrorist party with the Conservatives is fine....or a history of terror is merely a rationally comprehensible interpretation of historical events and then go all sniffly when this sophomoronic platitude is laid bare. Grow up. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Figleaf Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 .....your hysteria doesn't need paranoia as company....... Paranoia? You've clearly targetted me with a series malicious and dishonest attacks. It's hardly paranoid to notice that. ...as to your rationalization of terror,... I have never done that. You are lying. You seem to think that equating a terrorist party with the Conservatives is fine... I did no such thing. You are lying again. Stop lying. Quote
Higgly Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 holy jezus. They 'pre-empted' the invasion by attacking them first. That is not starting it, that's pre-empting it. And as per my source (The BBC which is hardly a friendly Israeli source) disagrees with you. So you will have to do better than that. Substitue 'pre-emptive' with 'unprovoked'. Get the picture? Quote "We have seen the enemy and he is us!". Pogo (Walt Kelly).
White Doors Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 holy jezus. They 'pre-empted' the invasion by attacking them first. That is not starting it, that's pre-empting it. And as per my source (The BBC which is hardly a friendly Israeli source) disagrees with you. So you will have to do better than that. Substitue 'pre-emptive' with 'unprovoked'. Get the picture? ok... They 'unprovoked' the invasion by attacking them first. That is not starting it, that's 'unprovoking' it. And as per my source (The BBC which is hardly a friendly Israeli source) disagrees with you. So you will have to do better than that. Not sure about the rest of the people here, but that doesn't make much sense to me. You also conveniently forgot to refute my claim on the 1967 war. I will take that as a white flag raised and waved. Quote Those Dern Rednecks done outfoxed the left wing again.~blueblood~
Higgly Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 ...the threat of Arab invasion in 1967 ... According to whose perceptions? The Israelis constantly view themselves as being under threat. They probably think they are under threat from Zulus waving spears. Everybody threatens them. All the time. Whenever they need to attack someone, they come up with a threat. Quote "We have seen the enemy and he is us!". Pogo (Walt Kelly).
White Doors Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 ...the threat of Arab invasion in 1967 ... According to whose perceptions? The Israelis constantly view themselves as being under threat. They probably think they are under threat from Zulus waving spears. Everybody threatens them. All the time. Whenever they need to attack someone, they come up with a threat. Is this 'proof' that Israel's do this or is this 'proof' of your anti-jewish agenda? Quote Those Dern Rednecks done outfoxed the left wing again.~blueblood~
M.Dancer Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 You seem to think that equating a terrorist party with the Conservatives is fine... I did no such thing. You are lying again. Stop lying. Your words mate......your words....... Hamas is a political party within the Palestinian Authority, in the way the Conservative Partyis a political party within the government of Canada. Which way is that? The way political characters Like Day and MacKay commit political suicide? Or the way that Hamas commits suicide? Or perhaps in your effort to paint a terrorist organization as a legitimate political party you...ummmm...misspoke? Like MacKay calling the evacuation a christmas shopping frenzy? Fell free to back peddle Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Higgly Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 Because as we all know, Adolph Hitler was notorious for spending years patiently whittling away at his enemies with small, niggling attacks which killed 1 here, 3 there, even when he could crush them all in a massive assault that had blood running in the streets. Yadda yadda yadda. A population of simple shepherds, shopkeepers and farmers has been reduced to a pre-magna carta class of medieval serfs with no citizenship rights, no property rights, no right to assembly or petition - in fact no human rights at all, because Israel displaced millions of people to serve its own purposes. Yadda yadda yadda. Quote "We have seen the enemy and he is us!". Pogo (Walt Kelly).
M.Dancer Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 ...the threat of Arab invasion in 1967 ... According to whose perceptions? The Israelis constantly view themselves as being under threat. They probably think they are under threat from Zulus waving spears. Everybody threatens them. All the time. Whenever they need to attack someone, they come up with a threat. The egyptian blocade of the Red Sea port was an act of war, as defined by acts of war....the massing of troops and armour on the israeli border along with Syrian mobilization and jordanian massing of troops......you would have to be nuts not to see what was next. They had a choice.....to attack or to wait and defend. Unfortunately they have no terrirtory to make a defense in depth so attacking was the only option. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Higgly Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 Self determination is overrated. Canadian values on display here, courtesy of Argus Quote "We have seen the enemy and he is us!". Pogo (Walt Kelly).
Higgly Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 With a government which does not even recognize your right to existance, and which claims all of your territory for its own? Argus, I am gob-smacked that you could show such a complete understanding of the Palestinian sitution. Quote "We have seen the enemy and he is us!". Pogo (Walt Kelly).
Higgly Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 They are terrorists, plain and simple. Most Western countries... At the Marid conference, the Syrian foreign minister held up a British 'Terrorist Wanted' poster of Itzhak Shamir. Shamir of course went on from his humble terrorist days to become prime minister of Israel. Does this mean Israel is a terrorist state? Quote "We have seen the enemy and he is us!". Pogo (Walt Kelly).
Figleaf Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 You seem to think that equating a terrorist party with the Conservatives is fine... I did no such thing. You are lying again. Stop lying. Your words mate......your words....... Hamas is a political party within the Palestinian Authority, in the way the Conservative Partyis a political party within the government of Canada. Which way is that? The way political characters Like Day and MacKay commit political suicide? Or the way that Hamas commits suicide? 1. No-one on this thread was discussing suicide bombing until you raised it to make your dishonest attack. 2. If you were to read the thread, you would realize that I simply refered to the Conservative party to illustrate the relation between parties and the states they govern. I was clearly making no attempt to compare the philosophies or actions of the parties. Your suggestion otherwise was utterly wrong. Or perhaps in your effort to paint a terrorist organization as a legitimate political party What on Earth are you talking about? If your mischaracterization of my comments is inadvertent, I urge you to re-read the thread more carefully. If it's deliberate, stop lying and GFY. Quote
Higgly Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 The egyptian blocade of the Red Sea port was an act of war, as defined by acts of war....the massing of troops and armour on the israeli border along with Syrian mobilization and jordanian massing of troops......you would have to be nuts not to see what was next. They had a choice.....to attack or to wait and defend. Unfortunately they have no terrirtory to make a defense in depth so attacking was the only option. Yes indeed. You would also be nuts not to see that this was being held as a negotiation card by the Egyptians, that Nasser was negotiating through back channels, and that Israel decided that it did not want to negotiate but to force the issue by virtue of military might. Navigation of the Suez Canal was a minor inconvenience to the Israeli economy which had access to the sea on both its Mediterranean and Red Sea shores. Israel was looking for a a cassus belli and that is all there was to it. Quote "We have seen the enemy and he is us!". Pogo (Walt Kelly).
Figleaf Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 The egyptian blocade of the Red Sea port was an act of war, as defined by acts of war.... What definition? the massing of troops and armour on the israeli border Q: Which side of the border? A: Their OWN side of the border. Quote
M.Dancer Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 The egyptian blocade of the Red Sea port was an act of war, as defined by acts of war.... What definition? the massing of troops and armour on the israeli border Q: Which side of the border? A: Their OWN side of the border. I fail to see how playing the dumb blonde will help you with this...... If you didn't know an armed blocade is an act of war....just say so....if you didn't know that 3 nations massing troops on your boirder is provocative, just sayt so..... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Figleaf Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 The egyptian blocade of the Red Sea port was an act of war, as defined by acts of war.... What definition? the massing of troops and armour on the israeli border Q: Which side of the border? A: Their OWN side of the border. I fail to see ... Yeah yeah, blah blah. What definition? Quote
M.Dancer Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 Yeah yeah, blah blah. What definition? The International Criminal Court plans to include blockades against coasts and ports in its list of acts of war in 2009. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade Egyptian blockades of the Straits of Tiran prior to the 1956 Suez War and the 1967 Arab-Israeli War http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Blockade There...go re dye your hair...... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
normanchateau Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 They are terrorists, plain and simple. Most Western countries... At the Marid conference, the Syrian foreign minister held up a British 'Terrorist Wanted' poster of Itzhak Shamir. Shamir of course went on from his humble terrorist days to become prime minister of Israel. Does this mean Israel is a terrorist state? Israel probably could be accused of being a terrorist state had Israel elected Shamir in 1948. Shamir became Prime Minister in 1980 after decades of political rehabilitation. It is even conceivable that Hamas, after they renounce violence and acknowledge Israel's right to exist, might in 30 years time form a respected government. But currently Hamas deserves no more respect than the scumbag terrorist Shamir did in the 1940's. Quote
Higgly Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 Israel probably could be accused of being a terrorist state had Israel elected Shamir in 1948. Shamir became Prime Minister in 1980 after decades of political rehabilitation. Is that why they took so long to elect Sharon? Oh brother. Quote "We have seen the enemy and he is us!". Pogo (Walt Kelly).
Argus Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 Okay, as moderator, I order both of you to go to your corners, and not speak to one another for at least the next week. The fact I'm not moderator should not, all things considered, matter. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Figleaf Posted November 3, 2006 Report Posted November 3, 2006 The International Criminal Court plans to include blockades against coasts and ports in its list of acts of war in 2009. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade[bolding added] Soooo, when you said: The egyptian blocade of the Red Sea port was an act of war, as defined by acts of war.... Were you simply completely mistaken, or ... you know ... lying again? Quote
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