Al-queda In Iraq....

[Nuclear]

How can this be? http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...iraq_al_qaida_5

Al-Queda in Iraq....The Democrats insisted there was no terrorist presence there, yet the article says that the Us has 248 non-Iraqi fighters in custody....hmmm

I wonder.

All those libs who said Bush was lying and that he was finishing family business should go to the White House and beg forgiveness.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Nuclear,

Busloads of willing fighters against "the great Shaitan" were shipped from all over the place, I am surprised you didn't see this on the news. I saw a news bit (which is unusual for me, for I traditionally shun TV, but did watch the Iraqi invasion coverage) and Syria, Lebanon etc were loading 'potential martyrs' up at the 'greyhound station'.

That some were caught now????? is 'proof of perfidy? Surely you jest.

[Nuclear]

These guys are suspected Al-Queda....

[nova_satori]

Um, you do know that Iraq has become the greatest terror magnet on the face of the planet right?

Notice it doesn't say they were there before the invasion.....

If some special opps found them long before the invasion, before plans of the invasion, you might have some credible evidence...but seriously, this is after the US created the largest magnet for terroristsic in the world.

[Craig Read]

Iraq was funding terror, had active terror groups and paid homicide bombers long before 2003. To ignore that is to defy reality. Terror is sponsored by nation states, a key point that most Lie-berals forget as they try to support their favorite homicidal despot. Allende, Hussein, Mao, and so on.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Mr. Read,

Salvador Allende was killed for being a Marxist, not a tyrant. The US then helped install a far worse dictator. The US has supported, and still supports, brutal dictators many times, always with it's own interests and gain in mind.

[Hugo]

Salvador Allende was killed for being a Marxist, not a tyrant... The US has supported, and still supports, brutal dictators many times, always with it's own interests and gain in mind.

Ummm... no. The US installed a dictator, backed the Mujahedeen and so forth to oppose Soviet (and Maoist) Communism, a brutal force that killed or imprisoned 50 million of its own people, stole the products of the proletariat it was deemed to protect in order to support a massive military, annexed neighbouring countries and then began oppressing their people too, and was bent upon spreading its tentacles through coup, insurrection or outright warfare wherever it could.

Now, it's tragic that US proxies ended up killing innocents, but had the Cold War been lost, a great many more lives would have been forfeit, and while US proxies eliminated freedom in some parts of the world, Communism would have eliminated freedom everywhere.

The Cold War is over. Clinton should have started eliminating the egregious allies but didn't. Bush Jr has begun that process... and you are moaning about it!!!

[Nuclear]

Um, you do know that Iraq has become the greatest terror magnet on the face of the planet right?

Notice it doesn't say they were there before the invasion.....

If some special opps found them long before the invasion, before plans of the invasion, you might have some credible evidence...but seriously, this is after the US created the largest magnet for terroristsic in the world.

Forgot you know everything, sorry.

We don't know if they were there or not. We had a hard time finding terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan, so even if it turns out that Saddam hid the WMD where we can never find them and the UN throughs a hissy fit, at least we now have a spot where terrorists are coming to find us. It's better they come find us in Iraq and meet our military than in the streets of Manhattan against our civillians.

As for the US funding tyrants, such as Mao, that was done thanks to many advisors in the admins of Roosevelt, Truman, and Eisenhower. Why would they do this? Because the Verona cables that were declassifed in 1995 proves that there were DOZENS, yes DOZENS of Soviet spies working in our government. Alger Hiss, who was with Roosevelt at Yalta and helped create the useless body know as the UN was a spy. The advisors regarding China and whom we supported were also spies.....During WW2, China was great because it kept the Japanese off the Soviets, after the war, the US, advised by soviet spies(cause the democratic admin was either too stupid to know or WANT communists in the gov't) to go against the Chinese leader and allow Mao in.

It's because the democrats were not willing to look for soviets in their own ranks....

[SirRiff]

Iraq was funding terror, had active terror groups and paid homicide bombers long before 2003. To ignore that is to defy reality. Terror is sponsored by nation states, a key point that most Lie-berals forget as they try to support their favorite homicidal despot. Allende, Hussein, Mao, and so on.

do you hear about a saudi arabia invasion?

nope, america will look the other way for oil, or when their own government funds terrorists, but when the economys slow and you need some propaganda, then its INTO IRAQ.

americans are so brainwashed they dont have a clue. there were no more terrorists in iraq then there are in brazil, or egypt or mexcio.

70% of them believe the bush propaganda that saddam wa likely involved in 9/11, how disgusting

there was obviously no imminent threat that couldnt wait a few more weeks for UN support.

there were obviously no WMDs that could be fired in 45minutes as the kay report will state.

all lies

SirRiff

[KrustyKidd]

there was obviously no imminent threat that couldnt wait a few more weeks for UN support.

Black and white Riff. Everywhere inbetween is grey. At what point does white become black? 14, 15, 16,....87 resolutions? I would imagine that if the income tax people were owed money by you and you had told us for the fourteenth week in a row that the check was in the mail you can imagine that you would have by that time a seized bank account with legal proceedings comming your way if not there already. Then in court your lawyer would have the perfect defense; "only a couple more days were necessary and Mr Riff would have complied your honor." The Judge of course would overturn the taxation departments garneshee of your wages because you were only given over a dozen chances and should have been given what? 14.01? 14.03? 23? 12856 more chances? What Riff?

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Hugo,

Ummm... no. The US installed a dictator, backed the Mujahedeen and so forth to oppose Soviet (and Maoist) Communism, a brutal force that killed or imprisoned 50 million of its own people, stole the products of the proletariat

A nice, easy answer but hardly applicable to Central and South America (with exceptions, I'll grant you) and elswhere. The people of Nicaragua and Honduras, for example, dared want to own it's own natural resources, such as coffee and bananas. They wanted their own people to profit, and prosper, but the brother of the CIA director was a major shareholder in The United Fruit Company. With it's and the US' profits in jeopardy, they killed and tortured thousands, because if the Nicaraguans wanted to own their own bananas, they must be 'Stalinist Communists bent on enslaving and murdering millions'. Hardly a fair comparison.

Thae US is drawing it's line in the sand, but horrifically it has been and seems to continue to be, "If the profits from a country do not profit the US, it must be invaded or eradicated as the enemy".

"if you ain't with us, you're against us" is the battle cry of the US, now more than ever, since GW Bush put it in a speech after 9/11. Too bad he used such a tragedy to twist things even further than they were.

[Hugo]

A nice, easy answer but hardly applicable to Central and South America (with exceptions, I'll grant you) and elswhere.

Oh, it's applicable, my friend. You said yourself that Allende was a Marxist. So, two points for your consideration:

1) The enemy of your enemy is your friend.

2) If the US does not gain a foothold in a country, the USSR would certainly try to. Hence the expression that the post-war world was bipolar.

"If the profits from a country do not profit the US, it must be invaded or eradicated as the enemy".

I see. And what of the billions of dollars poured into the rebuilding of Europe after WWII, into countries whose profits would be entirely their own?

The fact is that throughout the conflicts of the 20th Century the USA has been the "good guys". Maybe they don't live up to your lofty expectations, but their enemies were far, far worse - something you seem to have glossed over in your rather ridiculous view of history.

[Craig Read]

Well the Lie-berals are wrong about Allende their 2nd favorite dictator after Hussein. Read some Chilean commentary on it and you will find the following:

1. Parliament revolted for months against Allende - why ? The country was going to hell, rampant inflation, economy had crashed and people had little food. Parliament called for reforms and was ignored by Allende.

2. There were hundreds of demonstrations against Allende for over 4 months by the middle class and poor.

3. A Civil War was imminent.

4. The Army called for reforms and a plan to solve the economic and civil strife. Allende ignored the army.

In order to forestall a civil war the Chilean army by itself, without the CIA, took over power. The CIA's role was minor, I find it racist to suggest that the Chilean army was too incompetent to topple a moron like Allende.

The coup occured months of prewarning Allende what would happened if reforms and the opening up of Parliament and the dismantling of his little clique were not acted upon.

Allende deserved to perish - just his incipient stubborness alone, almost threw Chile into a civil war that would have killed tens of thousands.

And Yes he was a Marxist and yes he tried to nationalise the economy and retard Chile's development by about 3 generations.

And Yes Pinochet was necessary. And Yes Pinochet killed 2328 people. But he ended up saving about 100X that number.

And Yes Chile today thanks to Liberalisation under Pinochet is a Western oriented state and the most prosperous of the Latin nations.

And Yes unlike the Lie-beral dweebs who will moan and cry over Allende I have worked and been in Chile and can tell you compared to its neighbours it is a HELL OF A BETTER PLACE TODAY.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Mr. Read,

And Yes Pinochet was necessary. And Yes Pinochet killed 2328 people. But he ended up saving about 100X that number.

If you are going to make up fictional statistics, try adding some zeros. He could then have saved 10,000X that number.

The CIA's role was minor, I find it racist to suggest that the Chilean army was too incompetent to topple a moron like Allende.

Racist? You must be joking or mad. No reference to the competency of the Chilean Army has been mentioned here. In fact, my point is the CIA intervened to ensure thae brutal dictator installed was a 'US-friendly' one, (or 'moderate') to ensure the US multi-nationals could profit. They certainly would not let a coup take place if the Chileans were to be the ones to profit.

Allende deserved to perish - just his incipient stubborness alone, almost threw Chile into a civil war that would have killed tens of thousands.

Deserved to perish for stubborness? Or for almost causing a death? Pinochet? I do not believe he should perish. He should have been returned to his country for trial. That would not have been good for the US, though. The truth would have been discovered.

I find it racist that one could think that the people of other nations could be viewed as too incompetent for self-determination.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Hugo,

1) The enemy of your enemy is your friend.

This is utter nonsense. If Mr. Read feels enmity towards the House of Saud, and so does Osama Bin Laden, does that make the two of them friends? I would suggest that it would make them back-stabbing allies, at best.

And what of the billions of dollars poured into the rebuilding of Europe after WWII, into countries whose profits would be entirely their own?

European countries had run up a debt by 1947 of 5.4 billion dollars in restructuring, with the IMF (set up in 19440 and with the World Bank (set up in 1946). The USA underwrote both these agencies.

The only reason the USA could do this was because N. America did not have the snot bombed out of it. Lend/Lease was dangerously close to profiteering, but it was essential. Otherwise, the US contributions to WWII were dubious at best.(With the noted exception of the heroes of Bastogne, such as Gen. 'Aw Nuts!' McAuliffe,) If the UK (who were the real heroes of WWII) could have profitted off of WWII, they would have done so also.

[Hugo]

I would suggest that it would make them back-stabbing allies, at best.

Yes, and such was the relationship that the US had with its more egregious allies. Hence the fact that former US allies (Mujahedeen) are now stabbing the US in the back, and the US is doing it in turn to Saddam Hussein.

If the UK (who were the real heroes of WWII) could have profitted off of WWII, they would have done so also.

Go read some history. You have no idea what you're on about. Please, go read the armaments production figures for all world powers 1940-1945 and then tell me the war was winnable without the US.

European countries had run up a debt by 1947 of 5.4 billion dollars in restructuring, with the IMF (set up in 19440 and with the World Bank (set up in 1946). The USA underwrote both these agencies.

Yes, and only one country actually ever paid its war debt. The US wrote the rest of them off.

[Craig Read]

So Flea -Bitten, what is your point if you have one ?

Bin Laden hates the Saud family not S.A. He is supported for crying out loud by Wahabbi fanatics, various princes and goodly part of the population that loves his anti-modern nonsense.

Where do you get your sources from ? Mars ?

As for the Marshall Plan, the Europeans asked for it. They wanted help and economic stability was a rather obvious necessity and only 1 necessity amongst many to combat growing Soviet Power.

So what is your point here ? Is there one ? Or is it the usual garbage that the US helped Europe to help itself ?

The fact that Europeans have had peace, social democracy and a good life since 1945 is due in large measure to the US Hegemony they have enjoyed including the security and peace necessary to establish market economies.

So what exactly are you trying to state ? Do you even know what you want to say ?

I doubt it.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Hugo,

I did state that lend/lease was essential. WWII would have indeed had a different outcome if the US was not dragged into WWII, with their immense, and unbombable factory production. I am not sure where you think I stated otherwise. The US troops were also invaluable as cannon fodder, I suppose.

[Craig Read]

Domestic politics in the US forced lend-lease to be the type of deal it was. To understand Roosevelt's actions you have to understand domestic US politics, the election cycle and the belief that Europe was getting what it deserved. US isolationism until 1940 was incredibly strong. Lend Lease was the best Roosevelt could do and Churchill privately was irate over the terms saying he was 'being flayed to the bone'. But I fail to see what Roosevelt could do legally otherwise. Sending the 50 destroyers to Britain contravened at that time, US law.

[Nuclear]

Iraq was funding terror, had active terror groups and paid homicide bombers long before 2003. To ignore that is to defy reality. Terror is sponsored by nation states, a key point that most Lie-berals forget as they try to support their favorite homicidal despot. Allende, Hussein, Mao, and so on.

do you hear about a saudi arabia invasion?

nope, america will look the other way for oil, or when their own government funds terrorists, but when the economys slow and you need some propaganda, then its INTO IRAQ.

americans are so brainwashed they dont have a clue. there were no more terrorists in iraq then there are in brazil, or egypt or mexcio.

70% of them believe the bush propaganda that saddam wa likely involved in 9/11, how disgusting

there was obviously no imminent threat that couldnt wait a few more weeks for UN support.

there were obviously no WMDs that could be fired in 45minutes as the kay report will state.

all lies

SirRiff

SirRiff, you're not an American so you know little about us, but let me fill you in on a few things.

I'm a Proud American, born and raised here.

When the US helped Saddam and Bin Laden, that was when they were fighting against(or at least the interests of) the Soviet Union, which you may not realize but until recently the US of A had 6000 nukes aimed at them and they had the same aimed at us. If one person had a bad day and fired, everyone would be gone. Luckily, that day never came. We were fighting what was called the Cold War. (Word of the day!) The Cold War was fought in every way we could. At the time, Saddam and Bin Laden were, although scumbags, were fighting against worse scumbags. Now that the worse scumbags are now peaceful and either dead or our friends, we now turn to the next round of dirtballs.

Anyhow, a President can't base his decisions on what Presidents in the past had done. Bush can't say, 'well that Reagan guy, he really screwed us there. At the time it was the right call but man, this whole 9-11 thing, we were once helping these guys....darn it. History is ironic and the guy to blame HAS A HARD TIME REMEMBERING HIS OWN CHILDREN' so give him a break. At the time it was a good call, in hindsight, it's not as good as we thought.

Iraq is taken care of. Saddam and Bin Laden are probably cavemates right now, but their time will come.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Mr. Read,

I do not see where the reference to Saudi Arabia is in my post. I had said the 'House of Saud', using the same english letters you did when you used that term. Not sure what you see on your computer, though.

It seems that many think the US helped Europe out of the dark ages, invented democracy, and freedom only exists when the US helps someone out.

I suggest those people pull their heads from their collective behinds and look at some history and the world today. Most socialist nations have democracy, freedom, and a far higher standard of living and human rights than the good ol' US of A. They have also done so for far longer than since the USA was just a gleam in the milkman's eye.

What am I trying to state? That the USA is a dunghill. Once upon a time, it stood for freedom, democracy and individual rights. (It was not the only one in history to do so, believe it or not) Now those noble virtues have been buried under heaps of greed, crime, and responsibility-dodging. Even truth itself has been cast aside for the sake of obeisance to Mammon, where the greatest good seems to be to line up for a chance to suckle at the teat of the Golden Calf.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Mr. Read,

Domestic politics in the US forced lend-lease to be the type of deal it was. To understand Roosevelt's actions you have to understand domestic US politics, the election cycle and the belief that Europe was getting what it deserved. US isolationism until 1940 was incredibly strong.

You are very correct in this quote. Further, many in the west, including Britain under Chamberlain, were awed by, and jealous of, some of Hitler's policies and sucesses.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Hugo,

Hence the fact that former US allies (Mujahedeen) are now stabbing the US in the back, and the US is doing it in turn to Saddam Hussein.

Actually, the Mujahadeen are doing exactly what they did before. They have not 'turncoated', their goals and the US' goals overlapped for a time. The Muj still have the exact same goal, to establish Islamic law in Afghanistan, and to end occupation, but now are fighting a different foe.

[KrustyKidd]

I came across this a few minutes ago. You people have probably seen it but I never did. It's a note found in one of the hijacker's cars.'

The Washington Post

Friday, September 28, 2001; Page A18

Excerpts from a five-page handwritten document that the FBI found in Mohamed Atta's luggage. Translated from Arabic:

• "In the name of God, the most merciful, the most compassionate. . . . In the name of God, of myself and of my family . . . I pray to you God to forgive me from all my sins, to allow me to glorify you in every possible way."

• "Remember the battle of the prophet . . . against the infidels, as he went on building the Islamic state."

• In upper right hand corner of Page 3: "The last night."

• "Remind yourself that in this night you will face many challenges. But you have to face them and understand it 100 percent."

• "Obey God, his messenger, and don't fight among yourself where you become weak, and stand fast, God will stand with those who stood fast."

• "You should engage in such things, you should pray, you should fast. You should ask God for guidance, you should ask God for help. . . . Continue to pray throughout this night. Continue to recite the Koran."

• "Purify your heart and clean it from all earthly matters. The time of fun and waste has gone. The time of judgment has arrived. Hence we need to utilize those few hours to ask God for forgiveness. You have to be convinced that those few hours that are left you in your life are very few. From there you will begin to live the happy life, the infinite paradise. Be optimistic. The prophet was always optimistic."

• "Always remember the verses that you would wish for death before you meet it if you only know what the reward after death will be."

• "Everybody hates death, fears death. But only those, the believers who know the life after death and the reward after death, would be the ones who will be seeking death."

• "Remember the verse that if God supports you, no one will be able to defeat you."

• "Keep a very open mind, keep a very open heart of what you are to face. You will be entering paradise. You will be entering the happiest life, everlasting life. Keep in your mind that if you are plagued with a problem and how to get out of it. A believer is always plagued with problems. . . . You will never enter paradise if you have not had a major problem. But only those who stood fast through it are the ones who will overcome it."

• "Check all of your items – your bag, your clothes, knives, your will, your IDs, your passport, all your papers. Check your safety before you leave. . . . Make sure that nobody is following you. . . . Make sure that you are clean, your clothes are clean, including your shoes."

• "In the morning, try to pray the morning prayer with an open heart. Don't leave but when you have washed for the prayer. Continue to pray."

• "When you enter the plane:

"Oh God, open all doors for me. Oh God who answers prayers and answers those who ask you, I am asking you for your help. I am asking you for forgiveness. I am asking you to lighten my way. I am asking you to lift the burden I feel."

• "God, I trust in you. God, I lay myself in your hands. I ask with the light of your faith that has lit the whole world and lightened all darkness on this earth, to guide me until you approve of me. And once you do, that's my ultimate goal."

• "There is no God but God. There is no God who is the God of the highest throne, there is no God but God, the God of all earth and skies. There is no God but God, I being a sinner. We are of God, and to God we return." 

[Craig Read]

Another example of a great enlightened culture. The 72 virgins are shamefully missing from his note. Poor fellow.

I came across a US report which contained some nice facts. First France and Russia ASSURED Hussein that the US would never invade. Second, Iraqi papers make it pretty clear that they funded terrorism.

Former Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz has told investigators separately that Mr. Hussein wasn't ready for the American attack and so didn't respond aggressively because he was "repeatedly told" by French and Russian officials that it would never happen, the official said. Mr. Aziz has been unreliable in the past, but the U.S. official said he is cooperating now that the U.S. has removed his family from Iraq.

Even if America started an air war, Mr. Aziz said, the French and Russians assured Iraq that the U.N. Security Council would intervene to stop a ground invasion. Asked about the matter, the French and Russian foreign ministries declined to comment. "Saddam's high command couldn't execute the defense plan because Saddam didn't believe it once the invasion had started," the official said, summarizing Mr. Aziz's account.

Federal prosecutors in July charged Khaled Abdel-Latif Dumeisi, a 61-year-old, Iraqi-born Chicago man, with being an unregistered Iraqi government agent. They alleged that he gathered information on Iraqi exiles in the U.S. for the Iraqi intelligence service. The case grew out of a dossier on Mr. Dumeisi in Iraqi intelligence service files, prosecutors said. Mr. Dumeisi has pleaded not guilty.

The files also include evidence that Iraq was behind several small-scale terrorist attacks against the U.S. and other countries, officials said. In one case, the 1993 bombing of a U.S. facility in Asia now has been linked to Iraq; orders for the operation were found in the files, a law-enforcement official said. The attack caused no casualties, the official said, refusing to disclose its exact location.

But Hussein will no doubt be a poster child for the Lie-berals - up there with Che [he of the Cuban death camps], Allende [he of communist dictatorship], Arafat [enough said] and Mao [agrarian reformer].