Why are the Conservatives Killing the Wheat Board?

Technocrat · December 1, 2006

If it is possible for a 50% + 1 of wheat producers to dissolve the board without serious amounts of red tape that would make the vote therotecially possible but practically impossible then yet again this government is out of line.

The Wheat Board seems a lot like a union to me. I hate unions but if 50% + 1 or more of employees want one then great bring it in...however both the union and wheat board should be sent packing just as easily if 50% + 1 or more want to remove it.

The alternative to the Wheat Board people keep proposing is a co-op. That is like a union too.

I say let the farmers vote.

True they can be, however that still does not adress the fundamental issue. The CWB members should be the ones to decide its future.

If properly run coops can be successful, however coops are not exactly easy to run & are often quite inefficient, poorly run and lack the expertise to succeed. Not to mention banks do not exactly like financing coops.

I work in the marketing arm of a coop, however it would not work without a marking board (DFO).

I would have no problem with a farmer only vote, but it would have to be restricted to only those farmers that fall under the control of the Board.
50 + 1 against...goodbye. No questions.

That is fair.

I agree if the farmers in the CWB vote to disband it... so be it. That is their choice... no one elses.

Renegade · December 1, 2006

I'd just like to know why they refuse a vote on it as per the Canadian Wheat Board Act. He is out to fire and bully anyone who says what might happen as a result of the Board losing the single desk.

If it is possible for a 50% + 1 of wheat producers to dissolve the board without serious amounts of red tape that would make the vote therotecially possible but practically impossible then yet again this government is out of line.

The Wheat Board seems a lot like a union to me. I hate unions but if 50% + 1 or more of employees want one then great bring it in...however both the union and wheat board should be sent packing just as easily if 50% + 1 or more want to remove it.

So should a farmer be thrown in jail if he refuses to sell to the Wheat Board, but instead sells his grain elsewhere?

Should an employee be fired if he refuses to join a union that the 50%+1 of the employees want?

MightyAC · December 1, 2006

Aye I support a vote as well. In a previous post I suggested that maybe there is too much red tape for a vote to actually take place. Maybe it is not practically possible for farmers to vote out the CWB. However, even if that were the case that still wouldn't excuse the actions of the Harper administration. They could simply ammend the act making it easier for simple majority votes to take place.

Technocrat · December 1, 2006

I'd just like to know why they refuse a vote on it as per the Canadian Wheat Board Act. He is out to fire and bully anyone who says what might happen as a result of the Board losing the single desk.

If it is possible for a 50% + 1 of wheat producers to dissolve the board without serious amounts of red tape that would make the vote therotecially possible but practically impossible then yet again this government is out of line.

The Wheat Board seems a lot like a union to me. I hate unions but if 50% + 1 or more of employees want one then great bring it in...however both the union and wheat board should be sent packing just as easily if 50% + 1 or more want to remove it.

So should a farmer be thrown in jail if he refuses to sell to the Wheat Board, but instead sells his grain elsewhere?

Should an employee be fired if he refuses to join a union that the 50%+1 of the employees want?

The farmer should have known penalty for his actions, if he did not, I would suggest that he read the legislation & rules regarding the CWB. If break the law what exactly do you expect? I may not exactly agree with the penalty handed out, but that does not absolve him of committing a crime under the law.

If i were the judge i would have probably slapped the guy with a fine and sentance him to read the legislation and pass a test on its contents.

Legislation regarding agri-food products is pretty straight forward as to offenses and penalties. I have read the Ontario Milk Act, if you break the law, expect consequences.

MightyAC · December 1, 2006

So should a farmer be thrown in jail if he refuses to sell to the Wheat Board, but instead sells his grain elsewhere?
Should an employee be fired if he refuses to join a union that the 50%+1 of the employees want?

No to 1 yes to 2. I think jail time is extreme, they should be faced with crushing fines. I would reccommend that they try to build support for their position and win the vote though. Seems like a better financial move.

Should a justice of the peace loose his job because he refuses to perform SSMs simply because 50% + 1 of politicians voted that they are legal? Yes...of course he should. Same idea..

blueblood · December 1, 2006

If it were up to a vote I can assure you that the wheat board ain't going anywhere, when my Tory MP votes against the party motion concerning the wheat board that says that says his little office got call after call after call saying for him to keep the wheat board or our riding is going orange and also says that there is unanimous farmer support for the wheat board. As a CPC supporter I am saying that Strahl should be canned and the whole ag strategy re-thought out, there is a potential to make a lot of money with it and make everyone happy, if the NDP was smart they could blast the tories with this come election time and pick up some seats.

Renegade · December 1, 2006

The farmer should have known penalty for his actions, if he did not, I would suggest that he read the legislation & rules regarding the CWB. If break the law what exactly do you expect? I may not exactly agree with the penalty handed out, but that does not absolve him of committing a crime under the law.
If i were the judge i would have probably slapped the guy with a fine and sentance him to read the legislation and pass a test on its contents.

Legislation regarding agri-food products is pretty straight forward as to offenses and penalties. I have read the Ontario Milk Act, if you break the law, expect consequences.

I should have phrased my question more articulately.

Is it fair to have a law where farmer is thrown in jail if he refuses to sell to the Wheat Board, but instead sells his grain elsewhere?

Of course I agree if a person, farmer or otherwise breaks the law, he should suffer the consequences. However IMV the law is completely unfair and therefore should be changed.

Renegade · December 1, 2006

So should a farmer be thrown in jail if he refuses to sell to the Wheat Board, but instead sells his grain elsewhere?

Should an employee be fired if he refuses to join a union that the 50%+1 of the employees want?

No to 1 yes to 2. I think jail time is extreme, they should be faced with crushing fines. I would reccommend that they try to build support for their position and win the vote though. Seems like a better financial move.

When the law is an ass, you need to reconigze it as one, and change it.

Should a justice of the peace loose his job because he refuses to perform SSMs simply because 50% + 1 of politicians voted that they are legal? Yes...of course he should. Same idea..

Disagree. They are different situation. In the JP situation, the JP refuses to perform a key part of his job. With an employee, joining a union is not relevant to his job, and is only mandatory because the union says it is so. Many juristictions agree that the employee needs to be protected from such bullying and have passed "right to work" legislation

MightyAC · December 1, 2006

Disagree. They are different situation. In the JP situation, the JP refuses to perform a key part of his job. With an employee, joining a union is not relevant to his job, and is only mandatory because the union says it is so. Many juristictions agree that the employee needs to be protected from such bullying and have passed "right to work" legislation

Good point...and bad example on my part.

Technocrat · December 1, 2006

So should a farmer be thrown in jail if he refuses to sell to the Wheat Board, but instead sells his grain elsewhere?

Should an employee be fired if he refuses to join a union that the 50%+1 of the employees want?

No to 1 yes to 2. I think jail time is extreme, they should be faced with crushing fines. I would reccommend that they try to build support for their position and win the vote though. Seems like a better financial move.

When the law is an ass, you need to reconigze it as one, and change it.

Should a justice of the peace loose his job because he refuses to perform SSMs simply because 50% + 1 of politicians voted that they are legal? Yes...of course he should. Same idea..

Disagree. They are different situation. In the JP situation, the JP refuses to perform a key part of his job. With an employee, joining a union is not relevant to his job, and is only mandatory because the union says it is so. Many juristictions agree that the employee needs to be protected from such bullying and have passed "right to work" legislation

Why is this law an ass again? If you know the law and proceed to break it, don't be suprised when you get punished for it.

If you disagree with the legislation then work through the necessary legal channels to change it. Not everything is going to always go your way. Thats life, thats the law, that is how democracy works.

Renegade · December 1, 2006

Why is this law an ass again?

Is an ass because it, under threat of violence, limits the ability of a farmer to trade his goods freely.

If you disagree with the legislation then work through the necessary legal channels to change it. Not everything is going to always go your way. Thats life, thats the law, that is how democracy works.

And wasn't democracy followed by electing a government which will enact such a change to the act? Is any of what the government doing illegal? If so the CWB can persue it in court.

Technocrat · December 1, 2006

Why is this law an ass again?

Is an ass because it, under threat of violence, limits the ability of a farmer to trade his goods freely.

If you disagree with the legislation then work through the necessary legal channels to change it. Not everything is going to always go your way. Thats life, thats the law, that is how democracy works.

And wasn't democracy followed by electing a government which will enact such a change to the act? Is any of what the government doing illegal? If so the CWB can persue it in court.

lol violence...!? check you head man... incarceration & a fine is not violent.

Why not put it to the members of the CWB and have them decide its future?

There seems to be no compelling argument nor is there a logical explanation for bypassing a vote by the CWB members.

If they are in favour of keeping the CWB then why dismantle it?

If they vote against the CWB then I see no problem in removing the CWB.

I would like to hear the arguments for removing the CWB without a vote. Are there any? or is this pure CPC bs.

jdobbin · December 1, 2006

I would have no problem with a farmer only vote, but it would have to be restricted to only those farmers that fall under the control of the Board.
50 + 1 against...goodbye. No questions.

That is fair.

Why would a potato farmer have a say in the member managed Canadian Wheat Board?

jdobbin · December 1, 2006

You don't explain why the farmer's input via the ballot box is not sufficient to decide the issue.
Your argument can do without the partisan posturing. It lends no credence to your case.

Because you can't unring a bell. The Conservatives are hoping to get this done before the election this spring. Their haste to do this is a little scary.

Okay, perhaps I should say Strahl's bullying and threats. He wants to fire the president of the Canadian Wheat Board for doing his job.

blueblood · December 1, 2006

You don't explain why the farmer's input via the ballot box is not sufficient to decide the issue.

Your argument can do without the partisan posturing. It lends no credence to your case.

Because you can't unring a bell. The Conservatives are hoping to get this done before the election this spring. Their haste to do this is a little scary.

Okay, perhaps I should say Strahl's bullying and threats. He wants to fire the president of the Canadian Wheat Board for doing his job.

If this gets done before the spring, don't be surprised if some seats go orange

jdobbin · December 1, 2006

So should a farmer be thrown in jail if he refuses to sell to the Wheat Board, but instead sells his grain elsewhere?
Should an employee be fired if he refuses to join a union that the 50%+1 of the employees want?

Should people break laws they don't like? Or should they vote to have that law removed?

jdobbin · December 1, 2006

And wasn't democracy followed by electing a government which will enact such a change to the act? Is any of what the government doing illegal? If so the CWB can persue it in court.

The Canadian Wheat Board cannot pursue it in court. They are muzzled and threatened with firing.

Renegade · December 1, 2006

lol violence...!? check you head man... incarceration & a fine is not violent.

Incrceration is not violent? You are kidding right? They have armed guards simply because they did not realize that violence was not to be used. :rolleyes:

Why not put it to the members of the CWB and have them decide its future?
There seems to be no compelling argument nor is there a logical explanation for bypassing a vote by the CWB members.

If they are in favour of keeping the CWB then why dismantle it?

If they vote against the CWB then I see no problem in removing the CWB.

I would like to hear the arguments for removing the CWB without a vote. Are there any? or is this pure CPC bs.

10 minutes ago you were all for the democratic process. The democratic process was followed, the CPC was elected. Now you want to "hear arguments"?

Why don't you just concede to the democratic process you so strongly advocated earlier?

Renegade · December 1, 2006

And wasn't democracy followed by electing a government which will enact such a change to the act? Is any of what the government doing illegal? If so the CWB can persue it in court.

The Canadian Wheat Board cannot pursue it in court. They are muzzled and threatened with firing.

So I guess it was legal then.

jdobbin · December 1, 2006

Incrceration is not violent? You are kidding right? They have armed guards simply because they did not realize that violence was not to be used.

Similarly, Strahl threatens the president and and board members from speaking on the issue with firing or removal.

Renegade · December 1, 2006

Because you can't unring a bell. The Conservatives are hoping to get this done before the election this spring. Their haste to do this is a little scary.

Then I guess the bell rung when the CPC got elected. Deal with it.

Okay, perhaps I should say Strahl's bullying and threats. He wants to fire the president of the Canadian Wheat Board for doing his job.

I'm not sure if what he is doing is legal or not. As far as I understand he can't fire the president directly. Only the directors can. If what he is doing is not legal, the directors can ignore it. If what he is doing is legal, then happy job-hunting for the president.

Renegade · December 1, 2006

Incrceration is not violent? You are kidding right? They have armed guards simply because they did not realize that violence was not to be used.

Similarly, Strahl threatens the president and and board members from speaking on the issue with firing or removal.

Unless he threatened to have him pulled screaming and kicking, it would not be considered violence. If he sent a letter threating armed guards to dispose of the president, then I concede it is violence.

Renegade · December 1, 2006

Should people break laws they don't like? Or should they vote to have that law removed?

You're are quite right. They should vote to have that law removed...and they did... they elected the CPC, who will indeed modify or remove that law.

jdobbin · December 1, 2006

You're are quite right. They should vote to have that law removed...and they did... they elected the CPC, who will indeed modify or remove that law.

Farmers were assured during the election that a vote for the Tories would not jeopardize their right to vote separately on the Canadian Wheat Board as per the act.

jdobbin · December 1, 2006

Unless he threatened to have him pulled screaming and kicking, it would not be considered violence. If he sent a letter threating armed guards to dispose of the president, then I concede it is violence.

In two weeks, it will come down to that. The president is not an employee of the minister. He's not leaving.