Thinking through Afghanistan

[normanchateau]

normanchateau

I'm not sure that I need another excuse. I can't support the idea of Canadians, no matter how well intentioned, giving up their lives to prop up a bribe-supported, Islamic fundamentalist theocracy whose government is filled with corrupt officials, drug smugglers, warlords and mullahs.

You still have not listed any countries free from coruption, And nor do i see Canada on that list, so why do you have such high standards for Afgan when in fact our country is not living up to them...

I don't recall saying I'd list countries free of corruption. Do you seriously believe that Afghanistan is less corrupt than most countries? In any event, their degree of corruption combined with their fundamental beliefs and their theocratic government are enough for me not to want my offspring sacrificing their lives.

[southerncomfort]

Normie opined: "I can't support the idea of Canadians, no matter how well intentioned, giving up their lives to prop up a bribe-supported, Islamic fundamentalist theocracy whose government is filled with corrupt officials, drug smugglers, warlords and mullahs."

Well Normie guess you couldn't support the previous liberal government cos we know that was bribe supported ROTFLMAO wakey wakey

Mind you Normie does have a point.

[fellowtraveller]

In any event, their degree of corruption combined with their fundamental beliefs and their theocratic government are enough for me not to want my offspring sacrificing their lives.

Another feeble strawman.

Please note the following:

Canada has a 100% volunteer armed forces. There is no draft. They accept only those persons - adults only- that are willing to sign a contract of employment that notes that it is an inherently risky profession. There is no conscription. There is no duress. You must be sober at the time of signing the contract. You will not be accepted if your mental capacity is limited.

It is impossible for you, Stephen Harper, your government of the day or the Taliban to force your children to join the Army, go to Afghanistan, and be killed. However, it is possible for your kids to be murdered at home in a terrorist incident.

[normanchateau]

Normie opined: "I can't support the idea of Canadians, no matter how well intentioned, giving up their lives to prop up a bribe-supported, Islamic fundamentalist theocracy whose government is filled with corrupt officials, drug smugglers, warlords and mullahs."

Well Normie guess you couldn't support the previous liberal government cos we know that was bribe supported

It's the whole combination of factors that makes the Afghanistan mission problematic. If we consider corruption alone...sure that's tolerable. Drug smugglers in government...sure that's tolerable. Islamic fundamentalists...sure they're tolerable. Put it all together, southerncomfort, and it's not so tolerable. Why would we want to support an Islamic fundamentalist theocracy, which like Iran, is ruled by mullahs?

Suppose Iran, an Islamic fundamentalist theocracy also ruled by mullahs (but perhaps without the same degree of drug smugglers and warlords and corrupt officials) were threatened by an extreme, Taliban-like group. Should Canadians go over there and rescue Iran? If your answer is an unequivocal yes, then perhaps I can begin to see why you think we should be in Afghanistan. My answer to that question would be no.

[southerncomfort]

I only think we should be there now because we are part of NATO I would not support extending past 2009 having said that I can't bear to think about what will happen to the women when we leave. We went in there after 9/11 for a good reason,

As for Iran it is allready radical can't get much more radical then threatening to wipe Israel off the map and adovcating genocide, supporting terrorists and all that -

[normanchateau]

As for Iran it is allready radical can't get much more radical then threatening to wipe Israel off the map and adovcating genocide, supporting terrorists and all that -

I agree completely with your comments about Iran. But I return to my earlier question. What if an even more extreme Taliban-like group was threatening the government of Iran. Should we help Iran?

Because Afghanistan is an Islamic fundamentalist theocracy, I see the situation as comparable. Not identical, just comparable.

[jdobbin]

Nothing in the links or quotes you've provided disputes the reality that two million plus Afghans have returned and remain. Those millions were driven from their homes by the savagery of their Taliban government.

It is not perfect , it is not paradise, it is not a haven of democracy, it is not a preferred place to buy a timeshare.

But it is better than it was, a lot better, and that did not happen by accident.

Explain that away.

And war and drought have put 20,000 refugees back on the move this week.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0611/S00136.htm

"the conflict in the south has uprooted more than 20,000 families from their villages, leaving them in need of humanitarian aid."

The BBC reporters embedded with the troops also reported some empty villages in the last weeks in Helmand province. Explain that.

Nearly 90,000 Afghan refugees in Pakistan are fearful of returning.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?p...-11-2006_pg7_21

There are still 2.4 million Afghans living in Pakistan either too afraid to leave or fighting to push NATO out of Afghanistan.

[jdobbin]

jdobbin:

There are schools in Kanadar , and thier are kids going to school there. but that won't bring the support the president wants will it. again i stress that one should not believe everything one reads in the media...everyone has an agenda, in this case money and support....

here is something that did not make the nightly news, this Orfange has a school, repaired by Canadians...

My Webpage

I know that for every report I show, you'll tell me how much Canada is doing in Afghanistan. You say don't believe the media or that everyone has an agenda. I believe that Canada is doing its best in Afghanistan. But I also know even British generals are saying that the situation is in risk of slipping further backwards.

Perhaps if Harper would let the Parliamentary committee travel to the area, some of our MPs would know what is going on. The Germans, the Dutch and the British have MPs going all the time. Harper and the military say it is too dangerous for Canadian MPs to visit though.

[normanchateau]

Perhaps if Harper would let the Parliamentary committee travel to the area, some of our MPs would know what is going on. The Germans, the Dutch and the British have MPs going all the time. Harper and the military say it is too dangerous for Canadian MPs to visit though.

Do we know whether any of our MPs actually want to go visit? If yes, they should be allowed to do so.

[jdobbin]

Do we know whether any of our MPs actually want to go visit? If yes, they should be allowed to do so.

The entire committee has been asking to go. It has been the feature of a CBC National story that compared all the rest of the NATO countries to Canada in terms of trips to the region.

Canada has the poorest record of MPs or Senators going. Harper and the military say it is too dangerous. Dutch and British MPs have gone dozens of times.

[normanchateau]

Do we know whether any of our MPs actually want to go visit? If yes, they should be allowed to do so.

The entire committee has been asking to go. It has been the feature of a CBC National story that compared all the rest of the NATO countries to Canada in terms of trips to the region.

Canada has the poorest record of MPs or Senators going. Harper and the military say it is too dangerous. Dutch and British MPs have gone dozens of times.

Bizarre. Could it be that the Canadian MPs would be visiting areas more dangerous than those visited by Dutch or British MPs?

[jdobbin]

Bizarre. Could it be that the Canadian MPs would be visiting areas more dangerous than those visited by Dutch or British MPs?

The CBC asked that very question. They have a reporter based on the base. Tim Horton's employees are there. Why no MPs allowed to visit?

[normanchateau]

Bizarre. Could it be that the Canadian MPs would be visiting areas more dangerous than those visited by Dutch or British MPs?

The CBC asked that very question. They have a reporter based on the base. Tim Horton's employees are there. Why no MPs allowed to visit?

Did anyone respond to the CBC's question?

[jdobbin]

Did anyone respond to the CBC's question?

The Conservatives said they were close to deciding when they were going to let the committee go. I have no idea when that will be.

I wish the CBC website had a stream of their National news.

[Figleaf]

Tim Horton's employees are there.

!!!!!

[normanchateau]

Tim Horton's employees are there.

!!!!!

Maybe the risk to the health and safety of Canadian MPs comes from what Tim Horton employees will serve them.