Liberals just don't get it

[B. Max]

It's suppose to be a house commoners, thus the name house of commons. However like everything else the liberals touch they perverted that too. They see it as house of kings who spend like drunken sailors on the commoners tab and actually believe something is wrong when someone doesn't. Shameful.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national...ad5&k=30205

[Ricki Bobbi]

How dare the Conservatives treat the Government purse with respect and not waste money on ministerial meals.

Why did Goodale even bother to comment? He would have looked a lot classier with a no comment or congratulating the Government on their fiscal mindedness.

[watching&waiting]

Of course the liberals do not get it. They only know they are entitiled to their entitlements, and they believe that every government should increase those entitlements not reduce them. That is why they are in opposition and will stay there for many more years. Because even when they are supposed to be on their best behaviour in a leadership race, they can not help but get tied into a scam or abuse of power scandle every week or so. It has just been so god awful, that you wonder if they are just going for the sympathy vote, as not one who thinks with their minds, would ever vote for them otherwise.

[jdobbin]

It's suppose to be a house commoners, thus the name house of commons. However like everything else the liberals touch they perverted that too. They see it as house of kings who spend like drunken sailors on the commoners tab and actually believe something is wrong when someone doesn't. Shameful.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national...ad5&k=30205

All I see in this report is some ministers up, some down. Depends on national and world events.

Hard to say based on one quarter what spending is like. It will be more accurate to look for an entire year.

[Ricki Bobbi]

All I see in this report is some ministers up, some down. Depends on national and world events.

Hard to say based on one quarter what spending is like. It will be more accurate to look for an entire year.

Just to be clear that is two up and twenty-four down. Yeah, good work at attempting to trivialize the trend that 92% of the cabinet are spending less than their Liberal presecessors. Never mind that the cabinet is smaller.

I guess the Liberals really did think they were entitled to their entitlements.

The story is good news for the Conservatives, and the Liberal reaction is just icing on the cake.

[jdobbin]

It was the Liberal government under Martin that set up the quarterly report.

My only concern is that sometimes government departments are on the hook for a minister's expenses and it isn't reported in a regular audit.

That still hasn't changed now.

We'll see what happens. Now with the blogosphere, it will be interesting to see if a minister appears in B.C. and is there overnight and still doesn't bill for any government business. If this happens, you have to wonder if the minister is paying for it out of pocket, the govenment department is picking it up or the party is picking it up. I think the public should know who is being billed for something even if it is the MP themselves paying for it.

Harper went after Preston Manning for having a personal expense account as leader. It was paid for by the party, not an uncommon practice for a leader in a political party out of government.

As I mentioned though, it is hard to say what is happening with one quarter revealed. It is still a fairly new policy. A minister who has no bills at all is as eyebrow raising as one that has huge expenses.

[geoffrey]

We'll see what happens. Now with the blogosphere, it will be interesting to see if a minister appears in B.C. and is there overnight and still doesn't bill for any government business. If this happens, you have to wonder if the minister is paying for it out of pocket, the govenment department is picking it up or the party is picking it up. I think the public should know who is being billed for something even if it is the MP themselves paying for it.

You expect MPs to disclose their personal expenditures? Unbelievable.

If MP's choose to pay for some trips out of pocket, maybe due to the fact that they aren't really all that much government business, I applaud it.

Spending on travel is down, there is no argument there, the taxpayer is winning.

Mind you, they all have a way to go yet IMO.

[Ricki Bobbi]

I think the public should know who is being billed for something even if it is the MP themselves paying for it.

A minister who has no bills at all is as eyebrow raising as one that has huge expenses.

Now you are saying all MPs should have to report every meal they eat at a restaurant? wtf?

Hmmm, why would a minister who pays for his own meals raise eyebrows?

He isn't except for the absolutely desperate Liberal supporters trying to make something out of this story when it is a total loser for them.

[jdobbin]

You expect MPs to disclose their personal expenditures? Unbelievable.

If MP's choose to pay for some trips out of pocket, maybe due to the fact that they aren't really all that much government business, I applaud it.

Spending on travel is down, there is no argument there, the taxpayer is winning.

Mind you, they all have a way to go yet IMO.

If they are on government business, I expect to see the bills regardless of who is paying for it. I don't care if they are buying a hotdog for themselves when they are not on government business. If they are in a hotel in Vancouver doing business for the government and are not billing, I expect to know who is paying for the hotel. If they are having dinner with a lobbyist, I want to know who is paying the bill. I don't want those bills cleverly disguised with expense accounts and trips paid for by lobbyists.

The taxpayer might be saving money on an expensed dinner only to get hosed on a government contract. I want to know who pays.

This is what Harper argued for when he was a Reform party member. It shouldn't be different now.

[geoffrey]

If they are on government business, I expect to see the bills regardless of who is paying for it. I don't care if they are buying a hotdog for themselves when they are not on government business. If they are in a hotel in Vancouver doing business for the government and are not billing, I expect to know who is paying for the hotel. If they are having dinner with a lobbyist, I want to know who is paying the bill. I don't want those bills cleverly disguised with expense accounts and trips paid for by lobbyists.

The taxpayer might be saving money on an expensed dinner only to get hosed on a government contract. I want to know who pays.

This is what Harper argued for when he was a Reform party member. It shouldn't be different now.

Ok I see what your saying. I think the problem before was that alot of expenses weren't neccessary or government business.

The quantity of outings would also be of interest, maybe the CPC MP's just have no taste in fine dinning?

[jdobbin]

Ok I see what your saying. I think the problem before was that alot of expenses weren't neccessary or government business.

The quantity of outings would also be of interest, maybe the CPC MP's just have no taste in fine dinning?

It's possible. Some of the things that really pissed off Americans this past two years is lobbyists in the States paying for meals, trips, golf, etc. While it looks like the taxpaper is saving money on expenses, there was some corrupt practices going on.

In some provinces that have expense reporting, they hide their expenses in department invoices and then make it only available under freedom of information acts.

I definitely want to know who pays for something when a minister is on government business.

I don't care if they go out to dinner when they are home on break and pay for it themselves.

[Ricki Bobbi]

It's possible. Some of the things that really pissed off Americans this past two years is lobbyists in the States paying for meals, trips, golf, etc. While it looks like the taxpaper is saving money on expenses, there was some corrupt practices going on.

In some provinces that have expense reporting, they hide their expenses in department invoices and then make it only available under freedom of information acts.

I definitely want to know who pays for something when a minister is on government business.

I don't care if they go out to dinner when they are home on break and pay for it themselves.

Kinda moving the goalposts, but so be it.

Then you should go back to your earlier post pointing out how MacKay's expenses are up over Pettigrew's. (That's the one you shrugged off as some are up and some are down.)

I take it you see that as a good thing that MacKay's expenses are up over Pettigrew's? More accuracy in reporting methinks.

[geoffrey]

Wow RB, don't take things so partisanly. I don't think that's where jdobbin was coming from at all. No need to critize people back and forth, it's been the downfall of the American political process, let's not extend it further up here.

I understand your issue with the lobbyists, but our laws are much more stringent here about "presents" and "hospitality" offered by those that deal with the government. I've been involved in some work with the provincial government here and unlike corporate clients, you absolutely would never send the deputy minister or anyone else a nice gift basket type thing at Christmas time.

I wouldn't be too worried about it jdobbin, I really honestly think when you look at the difference between the backgrounds of the CPC ministers and the LPC ministers, you can quickly find out the difference. The LPC was made up of rich Quebec/Ontario businessmen, they know how to spend moola, and all the power to them. If you want the best, you've got to pay the best, I have no issue with them having $200 meals for two people, it happens in business (now the $180 pizza or whatever it was, another issue). Then you look at the CPC which is a hodgpodge of career politicans (not from rich upbringings) or otherwise not that rich people.

Alas, Mr. Mackay, one of the more wealthy background ministers, is a big spender.

There ya go. I figure that adequately explains it, it's not much of a triumph for the CPC or a black eye for the Liberals.

[watching&waiting]

Geoffery I have to disagree with you on several things. I do think that this quarters release of expenses does show a very different type of character in the MPs over the last liberal counterparts. The CPC by their very nature and what they stand for should in almost all cases be a much more frugal person with our tax dollars. That was part of the Liberal scary Harper story during the last elections. It would be wrong now to say that because this now is shown not to be scarey but rather a saving for the taxpayer, should be a black eye for the Liberals. They looked for it and now they got it. It does not sadden me that they have a tough time spinning it, but rather I take joy in seeing it.

I would be very disappointed to see the CPC not be able to find areas where there could be billions saved over the lavish times of the liberals, because it would have meant then the liberals were doing a good job, and we do know that is not what people believe, and with all the things that the CPC are now showing only confirms that the liberals were just as dirty as they were painted in the last elections. These are just small revealations of just what the differences are and the basic roots that they come from. To show this in these contexts is a good thing for the CPC, but of course the NDP and libs will take issue with this, as it flies in the very face of what they are about. So as I said, yes to the black eye to the lefties and a good start for the right in a long path to come.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Wow RB, don't take things so partisanly. I don't think that's where jdobbin was coming from at all. No need to critize people back and forth, it's been the downfall of the American political process, let's not extend it further up here.

I understand your issue with the lobbyists, but our laws are much more stringent here about "presents" and "hospitality" offered by those that deal with the government. I've been involved in some work with the provincial government here and unlike corporate clients, you absolutely would never send the deputy minister or anyone else a nice gift basket type thing at Christmas time.

Geoffrey come on. jdobbin brushed off the Conservative spending as "some ministers up, some down". That was a total partisan reaction. If you want to try and 'play fair' then truly do so. Where was jdobbin coming from in his original reaction?

You really miss a few things about U.S. politics. The Liberals *always* play partisan games. Just as strongly as any American's do. They just do it while defending Canadian values i.e. LPC values. Jdobbin's response was overly partisan. So was Ralph Goodale's.

To chastise only one side for partisanship is pretty weak. The Liberals have been able to stay in power for so long by playing partisan games while chastising others for doing the same thing. The Conservatives need to be viligant defending themselves against these attacks. Yes, jdobbin belittling the way our cabinet has spent far less per minister than the Liberals needs to be defended against.

Do you really think jdobbin wasn't being partisan?

[gerryhatrick]

It's suppose to be a house commoners, thus the name house of commons. However like everything else the liberals touch they perverted that too. They see it as house of kings who spend like drunken sailors on the commoners tab and actually believe something is wrong when someone doesn't. Shameful.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national...ad5&k=30205

Well, given the example of the Conservatives not reporting their convention donations, I would certainly expect the opposition to question other financial reporting from them.

It's called being the opposition.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Let's get back on topic. Best way to do deal with anti-Harper thread hijackers methinks.

The Conservatives have spent far less on average per minister than their Liberal counterparts did. Goodale tried to attack them for this?

Would have been far classier and true leadership to congratulate them on their frugality with Government money....

[B. Max]

Well, given the example of the Conservatives not reporting their convention donations, I would certainly expect the opposition to question other financial reporting from them.

It's called being the opposition.

Just like a liberal. Can't distinguish between donated money and money obtained at the point of a gun by way of the government extortion system.

The reason they are in opposition.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Just like a liberal. Can't distinguish between donated money and money obtained at the point of a gun by way of the government extortion system.

The reason they are in opposition.

And the reason why they will stay in opposition for the next election at least.

[gerryhatrick]

Well, given the example of the Conservatives not reporting their convention donations, I would certainly expect the opposition to question other financial reporting from them.

It's called being the opposition.

Just like a liberal. Can't distinguish between donated money and money obtained at the point of a gun by way of the government extortion system.

The reason they are in opposition.

Well that makes sense.

The simple fact is the Conservatives have broken election donation rules to save some campaign money. Ergo, it's simple logic that all their accounting should be looked at carefully.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Just like a liberal. Can't distinguish between donated money and money obtained at the point of a gun by way of the government extortion system.

The reason they are in opposition.

Let's get it back on topic.

While some thread hijackers try and point to some other *possible* Conservative malfeasance, this particular case is an example of the Conservatives doing well. The tone of accountability is continuing in the Government.

Good work Mr. Prime Minister. Good work indeed.

[B. Max]

Let's get it back on topic.

While some thread hijackers try and point to some other *possible* Conservative malfeasance, this particular case is an example of the Conservatives doing well. The tone of accountability is continuing in the Government.

Good work Mr. Prime Minister. Good work indeed.

I agree, but you have to remember that in the world of liberal fuzz everything is possible, and what is possible now becomes true.

[jbg]

Just like a liberal. Can't distinguish between donated money and money obtained at the point of a gun by way of the government extortion system.

The reason they are in opposition.

And the reason why they will stay in opposition for the next election at least.

In our country, the Democrats rented out the Lincoln Bedroom in the White House for partisan benefit. Any erie (sp) parellels to the Liberal Party of Canada?

[M.Dancer]

In our country, the Democrats rented out the Lincoln Bedroom in the White House for partisan benefit. Any erie (sp) parellels to the Liberal Party of Canada?

What does Ireland have to do with it?

[jdobbin]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/061027/...er_jet_expenses

Harper's payments don't cover Challenger jets costs and the PMO is trying to cover up those costs.

"The Defence Department, meanwhile, said Friday it has been ordered "by the powers that be" not to divulge the exact cost of the flights in question, but did provide general operating costs.

For a Conservative government that rose to power on a platform of transparency and accountability, the actual Challenger costs could prove embarrassing - especially given past Tory attacks on the issue. "