Afghanistan

[jdobbin]

As much as it pains me (lol), Argus is absolutely right. The Liberals are being hypocritical to criticize the Conservatives since as Argus mentions, the changes in the Afghan mission (to a more offensive role) was given the go-ahead under the Liberal rule.

The Liberals also had a part to play in the Conservatives extension of the mission when many of them voted with the Conservatives in passing the extension through the Commons. If all the Liberals voted against the motion, it wouldn't have passed.

It is probably why the Liberals have opposed an immediate pull-out.

It doesn't mean the mission is out of bounds for debate. Proper audits are not being ton on the hundreds of millions being spent, the mission support from NATO itself should be discussed, the extension beyond 2009-10 that Harper has been talking about needs to be debated and lastly, the ability of Canada to respond to a domestic or international situation must be looked at.

This is a huge committment and it could be a bloody one with no real exit strategy except to withstand it for years and possibly decades to come.

[killjoy]

Durgan says:

Bla Bla Bla. Anybody can copy and paste. I reduced the Hoodoo Law to its essentials fpr the peasants could understand. Most cannot read more than one sentence due to a short attention span. I repeat: Hudood Ordinance is simply punishments for sex, alcohol and theft in many Muslim countries. Not only Pakistan, the most democratic of all Muslim countries other than Saudia Arabia-both allies of the US.

Then you repeat your ignorance and prove your unwillingness to learn. Nice try to save face but you've proven you don't know jack about when you're talking about anything about the region or anything about the actual meaning of reinstalling this vice department. Maybe go read a book for once in your life? Unbelivible! You sit there and claim you are 'dimming it down to the essentials' so the peasants could understand! Hilarious. I mean you can't even spell it right and you didn't even know what it was until last night and you sit here and still claim it's something it's not. How delusional can you get?

Hilarious: "I reduced the Hoodoo Law to its essentials for the peasants could understand. ". No YOU DIDN'T. You HAD NO IDEA WHAT IT WAS. Jeziz you can't even spell it correctly. You had no idea what it was and you REFUSE to read what it is, why it's important and what relevance it has to the Taliban. If you simply want to sit there with your head stuck up your backside while prancing around here claiming you're "Bringing light to the ignorant", fine, but don't expect us not to laugh at you.

"Anybody can cut and paste" he says! loL! What does that have to do with the Hudood Ordinance and it's connection to the Taliban and the fact you had NO IDEA WHAT IT WAS? It's not the same thing as Shia law. It is not common throughout the Muslim world. It is exclusive to Pakistan, no matter how many times you say, "No it isn't"

I repeat: Hudood Ordinance is simply punishments for sex, alcohol and theft in many Muslim countries.

Then you repeat your utter ingnorance and contempt for reality as well as truth in plan face of the facts when they're put in front of you. Either you're lying or crazy or stupid. Which is it?One more time, read carefully:

The Hudood Ordinance is a law in Pakistan, intended to implement Muslim Shari'a law, which enforces punishments mentioned in the Quran and sunnah for a number of crimes. It was enacted in 1979 as part of then military ruler Zia-ul-Haq's Islamization process.

Pakistan. Not "Muslim countries". Pakistan. OK? Pakistan. Say it a thousand times until you understand. The Hudood Ordinance is not common in all Muslim countries. IS NOT . Period. No matter how many times you want to call blue red it isn't.

Again; read and LEARN:

The Hudood Ordinance is a law in Pakistan, intended to implement Muslim Shari'a law, which enforces punishments mentioned in the Quran and sunnah for a number of crimes. It was enacted in 1979 as part of then military ruler Zia-ul-Haq's Islamization process.

The Ordinance is most criticized for criminalizing all extra-marital sex (zina), and making it exceptionally difficult and dangerous to prove an allegation of rape. A woman alleging rape is required to provide four adult male witnesses of "the act of penetration", and if the accused man is Muslim, the witnesses must be Muslims themselves. Failure to prove rape places the woman at risk of prosecution for adultery, which does not require such strong evidence[1].

For married Muslims, the maximum punishment for zina is death by stoning, or for unmarried couples or non-Muslims, 100 lashes. In practise, only imprisonment has ever been enforced, because the maximum punishments require four eyewitnesses as above.

The Hudood Ordinance also criminalises drinking alcohol (punishment: 80 lashes) and theft (punishment: amputation of the right hand).

A number of international and Pakistani human rights organizations are making an effort to get the law repealed. However, they are opposed by conservative religious parties, who accuse the government of departing from Islamic values. The governments of Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif both set up commissions to investigate the Hudood Ordinance. Both commissions recommended amending certain aspects of the law, but neither government followed through. In 2006, president Musharraf again proposed reform of the Ordinance[2]. On September 13th 2006, a bill was delayed in parliment that would make rape prosecutable as a civil offense, falling under civil law. If the bill passes, rape will be able to be tried under Islamic and civil law, as opposed to just civil [3].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudood_Ordinance

And again, and 100 times if I have to, read and learn before you talk:

It was during Bhutto's rule that the Taliban gained prominence in Afghanistan due to her support. Bhutto and the Taliban were openly opposed to each other when it came to social issues. According to the Taliban codes, as a woman she had no right to be in power. The Pakistan military, however, were insistent and Bhutto agreed to provide support. Also she saw the Taliban as a group that could stabliize Afghanistan and then allow economic access to trade with Central Asian republics. Her government provided military and financial support for the Taliban, even as far as sending the Pakistani army into Afghanistan. The Taliban took power in Kabul in September 1996.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benazir_Bhutto

The rest of this:

Muslims have more hangups about sex than even Western countires. That is probably why they have so much energy for violence agasint the helpless and weak. All that testosterone floating around in the body probably has to be disapated someplace. Apparently there or no homosexuals in Muslim countries, because it is forbidden by the Koran, similar to blasphemy against Allah. As per most crimes stoning to death is the prefered method of punishment, but hanging is also practiced, probably copied from the British.

is just a nonsensical meaningless display of ignorance.

Dugan my advice is that you just STFU. You aren't capable of understanding anything relevant to the situation apparently, and are obviously unwilling to learn.

"They have to be dragged, kicking and screaming all the way, to the truth and the light."

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[killjoy]

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[killjoy]

I see Pakistan is now being made out to be the bad guy. This should get interesting.

Anyone who doesn't understand Pakistan's influence in Afghanistan by using the Taliban needs to read up on it before making an 'informed descision'. Unbelievible to me how many people want to sit here talking like they know what's best to do about the mission in Aghanistan and yet have no idea what brought us to this point historically.

The Taliban, which is a corruption of the word "Tulaba", referring to students of Islam, and started out around 1993-1994. The group was started by Pakistani Interior Minister Naseerullah Babar, who struck a deal with exiled Afghan communist general Shahnawaz Tanai to break the deadly chaos that had engulfed Afghanistan with the complete fall of its communist govt (ironically as a result of Pakistan's sponsorhip of Tanai's failed coup to gain control of the floundering communist regime.) The first recorded appearance of Taliban was as an escort to a "trade delegation" launched by Babar out of Quetta to Kabul, which was able to soundly defeat all warlord opposition it encountered in its path. The Taliban quickly swept across Afghanistan, absorbing or eliminating any rivals. The lone holdouts who refused to accept the Pakistan-sponsored Taliban were Northern resistance leader Ahmad Shah Masoud, and General Abdul Rashid Dostum from the communist regime that had collapsed due to the coup attempt. A protracted battle then ensued between Taliban and the Northern Alliance, primarily around the northern outskirts of Kabul, but also raging far and wide across the North, including Herat and Kunduz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban

And the drug trade, started by Pakistani influenced and controlled Taliban:

When the Red Army was forced to withdraw in 1989, a power vacuum was created. Various Mujahidin factions started fighting against each other for power. With the discontinuation of Western support, they resorted ever more to poppy cultivation to finance their military existence.

Some local opium dealers, looking for a safe operational hub, joined forces with the more fanatic sections of the Mujahidin supported by Arab extremists like Osama bin Laden as well as the Pakistani secret intelligence service ISI to form the Taliban movement towards the end of 1994;[3] see also BBC report here [4].

The Taliban, having taken control of 90% of the country, actively encouraged poppy cultivation. With this, they not only fulfilled their promises and obligations to their partners - the regional mafia - but also increased their own desperately needed income by imposing taxes on local farmers and through subsidies by international organised crime gangs. According to the above UN source, Afghanistan saw a bumper opium crop of 4,600 million tonnes in 1999, which was the height of the Taliban rule in Afghanistan.

According to a Swiss security publication, 'SicherheitsForum' (April 2006, pp:56-57), this resulted in supply exceeding demand and a drop in the high-street price of heroin and morphine in the West, endangering the profitability of European drug smugglers. To stop this trend, Westerns international drug barons demanded a reduction in supply. The regional mafia instructed the Taliban accordingly. It is alleged in the report that, Obeying his financiers, Mullah Omar (the Taliban leader) issued a ban on poppy cultivation "on religious grounds", resulting in one of the lowest opium production levels in 2002. [5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Production_in_Afghanistan

Unbelievable.

Please! I'm sincerely pleading and begging you people in the name of Afghans who have suffered in the past and will in the future: read about it people and get informed before we even start to ask ourselves "why are we there and what are we doing?".

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[Durgan]

I suppose when some one is stoned to death in Saudia Arabia this is illegal, since they do not have the

The Hudood Ordinance according to you passioned explanation of this barbaric law. They are proabably implementing Shiah Law.

Both are middle age practices that cause much misery to many people.

I read the explanation of the draconian law and summarized the pertenent points long before you or some one else cut and pasted from WAIKAPEDIA.

To think we have troops in Afghanistan to defend the present regime is beyond comprehension. They have a ministry, called Ministry of Vice and Virtue. Use you imagination to define what his department's mandate is supposed to administer.

Apostasy is still a crime in this god for saken country where the punishement is death. And we are defending this place. Insanity. Christ most people don't even know the meaning of apostacy. It took 2000 years to tame the Catholic Religion and now the world is facing another crisis with stupid religious beliefs and practices.

Support our troops and leave ASP.

Durgan.

[killjoy]

Whatever Durgan. You've proven you utter contempt for truth, learning and the facts. No you're sitting there spinning more crap trying to make it look like you know what you're talking about when not only do you not, but you are unwilling to learn the facts even when they're put right in front of you. I'm sorry that you can't even get the 'Cole's Notes' version correct that's your problem.

At least now eveyone can see you're not worth taking seriously.

To think we have troops in Afghanistan to defend the present regime is beyond comprehension. They have a ministry, called Ministry of Vice and Virtue. Use you imagination to define what his department's mandate is supposed to administer.

Oh hell yeah. Lets just use our imagination instead of reading and looking at the situation for what it is. Lets not deal with reality...oh no! Lets all just sit here and use our imagination to divine reality. Who needs facts and education when you've got your imagination? Lets just finger-paint us a solution to this instead.

To think we have troops in Afghanistan to defend the present regime is beyond comprehension. They have a ministry, called Ministry of Vice and Virtue. Use you imagination to define what his department's mandate is supposed to administer.

If we do we'll be back there in ten years or less killing more of them and us.

.

[Argus]

If Sadaam were a US tool, and he could be relied on to safeguard and continue oil shipments, then there really isn't any reason why the US shouldn't have allowed him to conquer the gulf, esp the Sauds. It's not like this would unleash a reign of terror on the people, for there is no freedom there to begin with, and torture is commonplace in Saudi prisons anyway.

Niccolò di Bernado dei Machiavelli at his best. He couldn't have written it better. I suggest during the cold war the essence of the practice mentioned was used particularly in South Amrica. CIA sponsored dictators to achieve stability. I suggest the result is more misery, of which South America is slowly coming out of.

I won't dispute the result was misery. What I suggest is that it would have been just as miserable, perhaps more miserable, if the Americans had not supported friendly "strong men" but allowed South American to fall into the hands of Soviet allied dictators instead. Because remember, this was rarely a choice between a brutal right wing dictator and a benign left wing democrat. It was a choice between brutal dictators who supported us and those who supported the Soviets. The people were basically screwed either way.

But the right wing ones tend to have a shorter life span. North Korea is still a brutal dictatorship, while South Korea has reformed. Vietnam is still a brutal dictatorship, while Thailand - eh, well, is usually somewhat democratic. Cuba is still a brutal dictatorship while most of those in south and latin america have been replaced by democracies. China is still a brutal dictatorship while the Phillipines is now a democracy.

[Argus]

To think we have troops in Afghanistan to defend the present regime is beyond comprehension.

It's not a "regime", it's a democratically elected national government.

They have a ministry, called Ministry of Vice and Virtue. Use you imagination to define what his department's mandate is supposed to administer.

The Ottawa Police used to have the Public Morality Squad. I believe Toronto Police did, too. I imagine almost every police force in Canada and the US did. Most still do, even if they've changed the name.

Apostasy is still a crime in this god for saken country

In all Muslim countries, I believe.

where the punishement is death. And we are defending this place. Insanity. Christ most people don't even know the meaning of apostacy. It took 2000 years to tame the Catholic Religion and now the world is facing another crisis with stupid religious beliefs and practices.

Support our troops and leave ASP.

Durgan.[/size]

What we're doing there is trying to stablize the place so that it doesn't fall into the hands of religious wackos again, and so it doesn't become a lawless place which can be the base for international terrorist training camps and bases, as it was before. It's in our own interest to be there.

[Durgan]

Whatever Durgan. You've proven you utter contempt for truth, learning and the facts. No you're sitting there spinning more crap trying to make it look like you know what you're talking about when not only do you not, but you are unwilling to learn the facts even when they're put right in front of you. I'm sorry that you can't even get the 'Cole's Notes' version correct that's your problem.

At least now eveyone can see you're not worth taking seriously.

To think we have troops in Afghanistan to defend the present regime is beyond comprehension. They have a ministry, called Ministry of Vice and Virtue. Use you imagination to define what his department's mandate is supposed to administer.

Oh hell yeah. Lets just use our imagination instead of reading and looking at the situation for what it is. Lets not deal with reality...oh no! Lets all just sit here and use our imagination to divine reality. Who needs facts and education when you've got your imagination? Lets just finger-paint us a solution to this instead.

To think we have troops in Afghanistan to defend the present regime is beyond comprehension. They have a ministry, called Ministry of Vice and Virtue. Use you imagination to define what his department's mandate is supposed to administer.

If we do we'll be back there in ten years or less killing more of them and us.

.

You are frothing at the mouth. Your babble is irrational. Stick to the subject matter. I am annoyed at the incessant killing of young men on both sides, and the misery of the bystanders caught in the middle, often with religion as a justification.

Durgan.

[killjoy]

Ok. I can certainly understand that.

But what has being annoyed by it got to do with finding a solution or the reality of the situation?

Honestly what has being annoyed by it have to do with anything?

I might be annoyed by kemotherapy or surgery but what does being annoyed with it have to do with the reality of having cancer what to do to treat it?

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[theloniusfleabag]

Dear killjoy,

According to a Swiss security publication, 'SicherheitsForum' (April 2006, pp:56-57), this resulted in supply exceeding demand and a drop in the high-street price of heroin and morphine in the West, endangering the profitability of European drug smugglers. To stop this trend, Westerns international drug barons demanded a reduction in supply. The regional mafia instructed the Taliban accordingly. It is alleged in the report that, Obeying his financiers, Mullah Omar (the Taliban leader) issued a ban on poppy cultivation "on religious grounds", resulting in one of the lowest opium production levels in 2002. [5]

Now, while I do like wikipedia for certain reasons, it is fallible. Like the above quote. If the Taliban were 'toeing the line' of some unidentified 'drug barons', why would they outlaw production? To go from too much to near zero isn't exactly beneficial to either the 'drug barons' nor the Taliban. Both would have their drug income cut to zero. Not very good thinking...most illogical.

If OPEC can control the price by controlling production, then the heroin market would act the same, and either would suffer immensely from a production cut to zero. Heck, if you cut production of a product somebody is addicted to, you might find yourself getting 'invaded' by the angry consumer.

[killjoy]

Now, while I do like wikipedia for certain reasons, it is fallible. Like the above quote. If the Taliban were 'toeing the line' of some unidentified 'drug barons', why would they outlaw production?

I understand that. I don't take it to gospel.

However it remains even without that article that the Taliban increased poppy production far beyond anything like it before, and it did flood the market. They weren't selling it themselves . Then they outlawed it on religious grounds. They started it, because funding from the West had ceased, then they ended it for reasons unknown. I don't think it was because they suddenly lost their appreciation for money and arms.

Anyways the quote seems logical to me. It isn't worth all the risk and investment of running drugs if the street price falls because the market is flooded, yet the consequences and level of law enforcement one must bypass remains the same. It's the same as any other market, and that it is controlled at this ultimate level, by international mobs is no hoax. It's a multi billion dollar business.

If OPEC can control the price by controlling production, then the heroin market would act the same, and either would suffer immensely from a production cut to zero. Heck, if you cut production of a product somebody is addicted to, you might find yourself getting 'invaded' by the angry consumer.

Well I understand your point here but international drug cartels aren't exactly like OPEC. Besides Afghanistan isn't the only market. Furthermore they didn't have to sell it all at once. For all you or I know they could've been planning to rely on surplus, which would've been considerable, after outlawing it until they decided one day it wasn't a moral crime any more. Also if you have more supply than you have addicts then it is no longer a sellers market, is it? OPEC has a product it sells to consumers who are addicted to it. There is also a limited and finite supply. That favors the nations of opec - the seller. If there were suddenly an unlimited supply, what would OPEC have to say about it?

I admit I have no way to tell if the article is true or not, but I do see the logic in it.

BTW-

Heck, if you cut production of a product somebody is addicted to, you might find yourself getting 'invaded' by the angry consumer.

Don't know if you're implying anything here or not but it might be worthwile to mention that the customer for 90% of the Afghanistan heroin is Europe.

.

[Durgan]

It's not a "regime", it's a democratically elected national government.

Apostasy is still a crime in this god for saken country

In all Muslim countries, I believe.

What we're doing there is trying to stablize the place so that it doesn't fall into the hands of religious wackos again, and so it doesn't become a lawless place which can be the base for international terrorist training camps and bases, as it was before. It's in our own interest to be there.

I suggest it was a engineered democratically elected government conveniently sympathetic to the West. Hamas in the Gaza Strip was a democratically elected government also, not particularly sympathetic to the West as food for thought. That our troops are propping a regime that executes its citizens for apostacy is simply not acceptable, amongst other reasons.

I am suggesting it is the same church only a different pew. Many of the government's present members ascribe to the draconian religious views of the Talaban. Maybe the West's interests will be served in the short term, but little will change in Afghanistan. Socially engineering a country the size of Texas, 30 million people about he same as Canada, 50% illiterate, and deeply religious is simply not possible, even if it was desirable. Pakistan of 160 million people with many sympathetic to the Taliban cause makes the task of pacification by NATO problematic to say the least.

Durgan.

[KrustyKidd]

I suggest it was a engineered democratically elected government conveniently sympathetic to the West. Hamas in the Gaza Strip was a democratically elected government also, not particularly sympathetic to the West as food for thought.

Durgan.

I would suggest that it is an elected government and not socially engineered by the west. If not to your satisfaction then next time they hold elections. Hamas is a good example of a goverment not to our liking being elected so still they were elected.

That our troops are propping a regime that executes its citizens for apostacy is simply not acceptable, amongst other reasons

Our troops are 'propping' up this regime in coincidence only. What they are doing is preventing the opressive Taliban from comming in and destroying the democratic system which the US and us have nurtured whether it begats a continual pro western government or evolves into something anti western.

I am suggesting it is the same church only a different pew. Many of the government's present members ascribe to the draconian religious views of the Talaban. Maybe the West's interests will be served in the short term, but little will change in Afghanistan. Socially engineering a country the size of Texas, 30 million people about he same as Canada, 50% illiterate, and deeply religious is simply not possible, even if it was desirable. Pakistan of 160 million people with many sympathetic to the Taliban cause makes the task of pacification by NATO problematic to say the least.

Well the hell with it then. Let's just turn everything over to them and, to save time and effort for them let's fund them too. Heck, while we have our capitalistic industrial system, let's produce white robes and stoning pillars continually until they come for us. I take it you have a stone or mud hut picked out where you live that you wish to move to right?

Just wondering, what are you planning on telling the 65% of the people who voted? That it was all just a joke and that democracy is not reality?

[killjoy]

I suggest it was a engineered democratically elected government conveniently sympathetic to the West.

Naturally, because it is the first government.

Who voted for George Washington or Mackenzie? Look it up: next to no one that's who. By any of today's standards these first elections would've been considered 'fake' or 'puppet'.

The point is that once you have the system in place it takes care of itself once it needs no further help from outside.

Of course most people already know that but it won't stop them from making disingenuous arguments from it.

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[Durgan]

Well the hell with it then.

I suggest the West and the US in particular has waved the big stick and has got revenge for 9/11. It is time to start talking, which will have to be started sooner or later. All that will happen unless talks are started is the circle of war will get larger.

There are rumbling against Pakistan about hot pursuit, and lack of will in Pakistan in stopping infiltration of fighters into Afghanistan. I suggest a breach with Pakistan is not in the West's interest.

The incessant killing and destruction on both sides has to stop.

Afganistan has been reduced to rubble for all intents an purposes. This war is now a war of atrtrition, and the numbers are on the side of insurgents, Taliban, Afghans, Pakistan sympathizers, Jihad fighters,or whatever name one wishes to give them.

Durgan.

[Borg]

Well the hell with it then.

I suggest the West and the US in particular has waved the big stick and has got revenge for 9/11. It is time to start talking, which will have to be started sooner or later. All that will happen unless talks are started is the circle of war will get larger.

There are rumbling against Pakistan about hot pursuit, and lack of will in Pakistan in stopping infiltration of fighters into Afghanistan. I suggest a breach with Pakistan is not in the West's interest.

The incessant killing and destruction on both sides has to stop.

Afganistan has been reduced to rubble for all intents an purposes. This war is now a war of atrtrition, and the numbers are on the side of insurgents, Taliban, Afghans, Pakistan sympathizers, Jihad fighters,or whatever name one wishes to give them.

Durgan.

Revenge?

Well, if you say so.

As for talk - well, there is light banter in the back room perhaps.

Talk will potentially occur - but in the end talk will return to bullets and bombs. Islamics do not negotiate in good faith. Their victim society mentality and their drive to convert all or kill them has pre-determined our fateunless we stand strong.

Remember - they are taiught from birth - There is no sin in taking a non-believer and using this person as one would a cow - then killing that non-believer.

The thing is - this is what will bring the west down. Western civilizations cannot understand the fact that we are non-believers and thought of as nothing more than cockroaches.

Western societies actually believe there is a chance for peace through negotiation.

Kill them there or kill them here. In the end if we do not do it there we will have to do it here.

Those who have prescribed to the Liberal social re-engineering of this country will lead the way to our downfall.

Borg

[Durgan]

Revenge?

Well, if you say so.

As for talk - well, there is light banter in the back room perhaps.

Talk will potentially occur - but in the end talk will return to bullets and bombs. Islamics do not negotiate in good faith. Their victim society mentality and their drive to convert all or kill them has pre-determined our fateunless we stand strong.

Remember - they are taiught from birth - There is no sin in taking a non-believer and using this person as one would a cow - then killing that non-believer.

The thing is - this is what will bring the west down. Western civilizations cannot understand the fact that we are non-believers and thought of as nothing more than cockroaches.

Western societies actually believe there is a chance for peace through negotiation.

Kill them there or kill them here. In the end if we do not do it there we will have to do it here.

Those who have prescribed to the Liberal social re-engineering of this country will lead the way to our downfall.

Borg

Ridiculous babble. Non-sensical and stupid. Has the ridiculous bent of the radical Muslims. Better delivered in Al Jazeera than in a Western medium. Amost the rambling of a deranged mind.

The Taliban did not attack on 9/11. They harboured Ben Laden and would not turn him over. The US justifiably attacked and destroyed them, and most of the built up country, that which was left standing by the Russian assault. It was an act of revenge and punishment. The British, when they ruled the world, used to call this sort of action a punitive expedition. That said and done:

The Taliban finances are fueled by the upper middle class in Europe plus other places, who have an insatiable appetite for illegal drugs . It takes money to fight. Where do you think it comes from? Ninety percent of the abundant opium crop is sold in Western Europe. I suggest we buy the 4200 tons and it will give aid to the local farmers and we can control the supply. Cost about $600 million. Cheap compared to our military cost in material and body bags.

It is time to Exit, and offer and give aid, so the country can re-build under a regime of their choice. The Afghan Army is 35,000 strong now. It is time they took over the security of the country. It is now their war and their country.

Durgan.

[jbg]

By the way.........have you seen the price on VIAGRA? WOW..........kidding

The double and triple Afghanistan posts and threads are just as funny.

In fact, the redundant multiple QUOTES are even more hilarious.

Well, we now have multiple Afghanistan, Harper and LPOC leadership threads.