Uncle Ernie Is Dead - Good

[Craig Read]

Lost, i voted NDP. You can't call me inflexible

This will really screw up the minds of the lie-berals and leftists on this board.

Eves should retire and knit socks or fly fish.

[Neal.F.]

Uh oh... If Craig is voting for the Dippers, we COULD be looking at a repeat of 1990!!!!!! Geez, didn't that vote happen in October too???

Premier Howie.... has a ring to it....

but alas... it'll be Premier E. Reptilian Kitten-Eater.

What a nightmare.

[Craig Read]

Neal my friend you are right - and taxes will go up - $2.2 billion in corporate taxes. The effects on jobs is of course pronounced. It means that my little group for instance will not be hiring, and will consider rationalising costs further. All firms will be thinking and doing the same i suppose.

The upside will be that Howdy Doody Kitten eater will mess things up so Flaherty can win in 4 yrs. The question is can we survive 4 yrs of HDKE?

[d4dev]

You know what, Howard Hampton was the best of the 3, I think.

[Craig Read]

The complete obliteration of the Tories here in Ontario.

Eves will be viewed as one of the most inept Tory leaders in history.

He alienated his base, broke the tax law, initiated no reforms and tried to buy votes.

Good job.

[Hugo]

The whole election was just a farce, in my opinion. The Liberals are obviously pretty left of centre - tax and spend, social programmes, etc. The NDP are very left, and Eves' Tories seem to have become Liberals in different suits. So the question in this election was, to me: how would you like your socialism - rare, medium or well done?

Eves paid the price yesterday. He didn't sell himself as a leader for the year he was in power, and his election campaign was so inept he basically handed it to McGuinty on a silver platter.

[Craig Read]

I agree, I voted NDP as a protest against both McGuinty's tax raises, which he will now implement, and Eve's pasty face socialism of buying votes, ignoring reforms and breaking provincial tax law. I can't believe that John Baird the phantom Min. of Energy won his seat. Both he and Eves deserved to lose their ridings.

55.3% of voters turned out - the worst since 1923. Says something about the moribund state of affairs in this leftist province.

[Neal.F.]

The reason Mike Harris won elections, was that he said plainly whta he was going to do, and then did them. And then at re-election time, stood by what he did, made no apologies because he did exactly what he promised. No more, no less.

The deal was sealed on the first day when all Ernie Eves could offer was vote for us because he of the sharp pointy head is not up to the job.

-but ernie, why don't you tell us about your agenda?

The complete lack thereof was the reason why the Tories lost. They reminded me of the proverbial cornered rat baring its teeth. By not offering anything, the Tories handed the province over to the Liberals who now have 4 years to undo all the great things that Mike Harris accomplished.

There is no guarantee that the Tories would have won again had they stayed on the harris course of the CSR (which Liberal pundits are saying was what Ontarians voted to end.... what utter BS!) but it would have been a helluva lot closer, perhaps even a minority, which would have removed the excuse for the sweeping mandate that Dilton is going to claim he was given, and kept them more accountable and brought Ontario back to the polls to end the coming nightmare in two years instead of 4.

The low turnout was, I believe the result of Tories that Eves could not inspire to come out. Liberals were winning ridings with fewer votes than last time, but the Tory vote just was not there. Eves notwithstanding, these conservatives are going to regret it.

The silver lining is that now Jim Flaherty has another chance to get the Tories back on track for the next election.

I beleive that most Tories like , or at least respect his social conservative principles, and just couldn't buy into Eves' act. Larry Grossman who led the Tories to their worst defeat ever was a victim of the times. Thisb time the Tories were victims of Ernie Eves. So-cons can't buy inmto the act of someone who months ago supported gay marriage and then flip flopped. Biography just does match philosophy. Eves has always been pro-choice on abortion... And the fact that he did not bother to marry Isabel Basset is further evidence of how much he really believes in the traditional family and its values.

In closing thisn post mortem, I will point once again to more evidence that Tories who alienate the social conservative element of the coalition cannot win: The Family Coalition Party, whom I would have voted for did very well for a so-called fringe party. In several ridings they garnered well over 1000 votes, and finished 4th.

In Brampton West-Missisauga. Their vote total was very close to making the difference that could have allowed Tony Clement to sneak back in. They made the difference in Missisauga South too. In any case, they garnered between 2 and 4% in many ridings. Many of those who stayed home were probably so-cons.

In any case, now is the time for the PCs to let the dust settle. It is not the time to engage in internecine warfare. Everyone knowns where the blame lies, and there is no point in rubbing salt in the wounds. Ernie Eves should be allowed whatever time he needs, up to 18 months, to either land a job in the private sector or reconcile himself to serving as an MPP. Then he should reseign as leader, and let a race to succeed him begin. The main reason why the party must not start finger pointing is so they don't end up looking like the Canadian Alliance of two years ago. The leadership must be a prize worth fighting for, so that it attracts several serious contenders, and spo tha they can put together an actual program to sell to voters in 2007. If they fail to emerge from this as a cohesive unit with positive ideas, Dilton Doily will win again....by default.

[Craig Read]

Neal, good post, you are right on. I supported Flaherty during the leadership convention and was aghast and amazed that all the Tory big wigs and heavyweights were so ardently for Eves. The signs were clear that he was a waffling Pink Tory. He deserved to get hammered last night.

[Neal.F.]

Defeated yes, but hammered no. I'll rephrase that... HE deserved to get hammered, but the fact that there is such a huge Liberal majority is going to make the job of winning back power more difficult.

Had the Tories come up with 35-40 seats, Eves would have been toast anyway, and winning again in 4 years would not be as big a mountain to climb as it will be for -hopefully- Mr Flaherty.

Flaherty has credibility among social conservatives, and is , like Harris unapologetic for what he believes.

[Craig Read]

Well Ernie did not step down. This really annoys me. He loses by one of the biggest margins in Ont. history and decides to hang on to power. What an ass.

[Neal.F.]

Relax Craig, he's staying on an interim basis. The Party exec asked him to stay on for a bit. You don't want ton bring a new leader in just yet. Best to bring a new leader in halfway through the mandate, so that he's not birdcage liner by the time the election is called. You want him fresh enough to have appeal, but on the job long enough to be credible.

Remember the next election is at least 4 years away. McGuinty will NOT make the same mistake Peterson made by going too early.

As for Eves, very gracious of him to agree to stay. he probably wants out more than anyone else. They need to pull together, instead of pulling an Alliance and nearly flying apart.

[Craig Read]

Well he should state that the job is interim. The party needs to regroup and get back to basics. Here are some #'s that prove that the Conservatives - even under Harris - were lukewarm about reform:

-Tax revenue in Ontario as a % of GDP now: 13 %

Under Bob Rae: 12.3 %

-Per capita Revenue from Ontario taxation now: $5,100

Under Bob Rae: $3,900 [constant 2003 dollars]

-Spending per capita in Ontario now: $5063

Under Bob Rae: $5563 [constant 2003 dollars]

The Liberal media's view of this ?

"Tax cuts gutting Ontario"

"Destruction of the Welfare State"

"Heartless Tories!"

What a bunch of piffle.

The Tories cut taxes to lower and middle income groups.

Howdy Doody will raise Corp taxes and stall any other tax cuts which were planned for 2004.

There is NO difference between the Libs and Tories and NDP in this province when it comes to tax and spend.

What saved Harris were the tax cuts, welfare reform and a growing economy.

But on balance given the numbers I would hardly call what we have today a new regime of low tax, low spend.

The opposite is true !!

[Hugo]

I've drawn two lessons from this election.

Firstly, I think Eves threw it. He took power fairly unexpectedly, and since then he's been dogged with problems that he tried to resolve but which were not actually his fault. Hydro, for instance: the problem was brewing a long, long time before he took office. He tried to fix it by privatisation, then the rates went up and people moaned about that, so he put a rate cap on - maybe he didn't take the best possible course of action, but I think he tried his best. SARS and Walkerton, too, neither of them Eves' fault but people still seem to blame him for them. I think that he got sick of being blamed for everything and said, "Screw it, let Howdy Doody take the flak for all this crap and see how he likes it." He called the election pretty suddenly and didn't put up much of a fight.

Secondly, far too many people I spoke to said they were voting Liberal because they had heard "it's the best party" or "my friend told me to" or because "the Tories want to give all my tax money to private schools." These people should not be voting! They don't know what they are doing! You don't let unqualified people drive cars or perform surgery, so why would you let ignorant half-wits decide your government?

This reaffirms what I've believed for some time now: there should be "voting licenses" dependent upon being able to show some political knowledge. Either you demonstrate that you have some idea of basic policies and that you pay attention, or you forfeit your right to vote. That sounds fair to me.

[Hugo]

There is NO difference between the Libs and Tories and NDP in this province when it comes to tax and spend.

That's right, Craig. Like I said, it's simply a question of how you'd like your socialism. There is not an option for a true conservative in Ontario. None of the big three will actually reform, what they all propose is mere tweaking to the existing system.

[Craig Read]

Yes quite uninspiring this assorted social demagoguery.

As one writer put it "would you like your socialist steak, rare, medium or well done."

3 Parties, same steak.

[KrustyKidd]

This reaffirms what I've believed for some time now: there should be "voting licenses" dependent upon being able to show some political knowledge. Either you demonstrate that you have some idea of basic policies and that you pay attention, or you forfeit your right to vote. That sounds fair to me.

Voting license - AKA California Drivers License.

[Neal.F.]

There is NO difference between the Libs and Tories and NDP in this province when it comes to tax and spend.

That's right, Craig. Like I said, it's simply a question of how you'd like your socialism. There is not an option for a true conservative in Ontario. None of the big three will actually reform, what they all propose is mere tweaking to the existing system.

Hugo, there is an option for conservatives in Ontario. The Family Coalition Party. More people are realzing it now too. In some ridings they were close to 5%.

Meanwhile, the Greens are becoming more relevant to the left. The Big parties had better take note. when "Others" (in this case the FCP and Greens. all others ran too few candidates, and garnered so few votes to be significant) can score over 4% province wide, there's some real DISSATISFACTION manifesting itself.

[Craig Read]

What is truly dispiriting is the lack of civic duty and knowledge as you point out. 55 % voted ! Ok even if you have no choice at least vote and spoil your ballot and write in Mickey Mouse, or pen a love poem on the ballot - just to show that you are there and you object to the choice at hand.

How to get people involved ??? Or is life too easy and dull and TV too important to care about the rules that govern one's life. Entitlement, positive rights, access to other's money - is this the source of the problem ?

[Neal.F.]

I'm convinced that had the true Tory base turned out to vote, the total % would have been over 65%, which is still pretty bad.

One of the problems is the media. It acts as if the only choices out there are Liberal, PC or NDP.

Another problem is similar, it is the parties themselves who would like us to believe that there are only the three parties. They do so by writing electoral law to suit them, instead of the voter.

There are other parties out there, many of whom would appeal to the voter who feels disenfranchised. Either that voter doesn't know about these options, or he is so jaded that, while he might like the FCP, Greens or Freedom Party, he is convinced that the system is so stacked against them (and him) that it is not only pointless to vote, but that going out to vote perpetrates the fraud.

If electoral law is challenged, it helps even out the playing field, and contributes to our taking back the system

for instance, in '92, the PC govt. in a doomed effort to thwart the Bloc and Reform, introduced a bill which amended electoral law so as to make it an onerous task for a smaller party to get on the ballot, and even retain its registration status.

So the 158 Tories, 83 Libs and 44 Dippers nodded their heads gravely in assent and passed the law which:

1) raised the deposit for candidates from the nominal $250.00 to $1000.00.

2) They increased the number of electors' signatures required from 25, to 100, something a big party could accomplish at general meeting, but a minor party candidate would have to spend several evenings importuning passers by to sign.

3) They required that in order to retain registered party status (ie: retain the ability to issue tax receipts for donations between elections) the party would have to duly nominate at least 50 candidates.

Talk about stacking the deck.

The Communist Party of Canada challeneged this law and did so successfully, but only real political junkies know much about this.

Now the government has to rewrite the electoral law, however, they have 5 years in which to do it. And no doubt they will come up with a way to make it even more restrictive, which will then have to be challenged again.

Unless people get off their behinds and start to demand that democracy and choice at the ballot box be restored, we will move inexorably toward a system that nobody participates in because it is a sham, thus establishing perpetual elitist rule.

My Father and many ofhis generation went to WAR over democracy. Rule of the Progressive Liberal Democratic Party is NOT what these men fought, and in many cases , died for.

Yes Craig. I think that for many Life is too easy for them . they are Fat , dumb and happy, partaking of the bread and circuses offered by pop culture.

But for those who really care, it's time to make some noise.

[Craig Read]

Neal, I agree. Confederation is failing. Politicians go after Enron Execs who put somewhere between $1.5 B to $4 Billion in off balance sheet items. In Canada politicians have accumulated over $1 TRILLION in off balance sheet debt. Why aren't they in jail ?

Who will pay for this ?

I ask my parents, typical left of centre smarmy, anti-US, anti-Semitics, who will pay JUST the off balance unfunded liability ? Can they both write the gov't a cheque for $100 K each to pay this off the day before they die ? In fact shouldn't every Cdn be doing the same and paying off these odious debts ?

There is nothing moral in overtaxation and debt accumulation.

This speaks nothing of the future tax implications of something as dumb as Kyoto.

Confederation and the division of powers, and of tax IS the problem. Toronto and Alta are being bled white for the rest of the country.

Most people don't have a clue, and this is the most depressing part. Demagogues with facile sloganeering buy votes and win elections with the promise of more program spend.

Can't wait for Nationalised Day Care, Dental Care and Eye Care.

[Neal.F.]

Can't wait for Nationalised Day Care, Dental Care and Eye Care.

If the Liberals think it can get the votes, you won't have to wait long