Hey France!

KrustyKidd · September 20, 2003

- Liberty. They have 25 million of them in country. Just help in showing them what freedom is.

"Failure is not an option." - Bush, reffering to the rebuilding of Iraq and installing a democratic government.

"I cannot believe that any European who was opposed to the war in Iraq can imagine it's in Europe's interests for Iraq to fail," Nicholas Burns, the U.S. ambassador to NATO, urging allies not to turn their backs on Iraq Tuesday.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/20...ng-troops_x.htm

KK

The heavy lifting is done. Sure it's dangerous but to turn away now is morally wrong. If you do not like the US then at least look at it from the Iraqi person's perspective. The help of the world for a short period and they get democracy and a shot at a great life, in return the world gets a strong, self governed industrialized member country that will be a stabilizing force in the region. A shining example of non Zionist prosperity and the beginning of what may be a de-infesting of terrorist breeding conditions the world over. If the US has to go it alone then it may take years, lots of money and more death than it would be if they had help but they know it is the right thing to do. To not help now is to risk terrorism in the future, all for the sake of being in a snit over the US going it without the blessing of the UN.

nova_satori · September 21, 2003

French military. That's a joke.

Would they even be of any help? I'd rather have afgani troops then French troops.

Now if we can get the Germans to help....that would be good.

The french have produced two things that served their military well.

Joan of Arc and the Exocet missile. Napolean was Corsican, not French.

Boydfish · September 21, 2003

That's unfair Nova!

The French have made several major contributions to the art of war and military science!

Didn't they invent the white flag of surrender?

During the Second World War, they clearly had a well developed special forces capability, as once the Allies had arrived, every citizen of France who was a collaborator was instantly revealed to have "really" been part of the resistance.

The exploits and capabilities of the French Foriegn Legion are well known and proven. Of course, French citizens are prohibited from joining this organization, so that speak volumes.

The French are also responsible for some of the most vital and instructive quotes on military arts. Who can forget "Guard the cliffs? The British could never climb those cliffs!" or "We are safe behind the Maginot Line".

They also achieved an interesting military feat, a decade before the USAmericans: They had their asses kicked by the Vietnamese...before they were supported by the Chinese or Russians.

nova_satori · September 21, 2003

Ok, it was a bit unfair.

The exocet missile is downright mean. However, it's not downright evil like the Russian P-700 Granit. That badboy has "carrier killer" written ALL over it.

Let's see what the Exocet has killed/maimed:

In March 1987 a Mirage F-1 fighter fired French Exocet missiles into the hull of the USS Stark killing 37 Navy seaman.

At 2:04 p.m. the missile struck amidships on the starboard side, ripping a 4-by-15-foot hole from her auxiliary machine space to her forward engine room. By that time, the Argentine pilots had banked sharply away, returning to low-level flying on the westward trek home. HMS Sheffield burned well into the night before sinking.

The MV Atlantic Conveyor is hit by an Exocet missile and sinks 3 days later, 12 more British dead.

The cruiser HMS Glamorgan is hit by an Exocet missile as it was bombarding on shore Argentine positions. 13 British die.

It's a superb weapon.

theloniusfleabag · September 21, 2003

Dear Boydfish,

There is an excellent book called Devil's Guard about some ex-waffen SS troops who served with the legion in Indo-China. I have read it a few times, a very interesting book. I does pretty much tell why the French lost, but it was for the same reason the US also lost. Dissension at home, not Dien Bien Phu. Besides, they (as with the US) never fully understood the enemy or guerilla warfare.

The exocet, is indeed a fine wepon, nova. In it's day the Mirage was a desirable jet, also. However, the French (apart from the legion) have not produced any generals or troops of any calibre for some time.

nova_satori · September 21, 2003

Sadly that is true. The new exocet is excellent weapon, possibly only overshadowed by the "shipwreck."

However, without nukes both weapons are inferior to the new type of anti-ship missile.

The new types do not actually hit the ship. They dive under, or as a torp, explode underneath the ship, creating a huge vaccum, which literally snaps the ship in two. The modern Us and Brit ships can take multiple missiles without sinking. They however, cannot take a vaccum underneath their hull.