130km of Lebanese coastline affected by oil slick

[watching&waiting]

Why is it that people try to shift the blame for who started this war. It was the Lebanese that kidnapped Israeli soldiers that set thing going and then the Hezbolla firing rockets across the border into Israel, with the Lebanese government doing nothing to stop it. Israel responded and now we have all out war. If the Lebanese people would have done more to make sure terrorist groups were not allowed into their lands and maybe if neighbourhoods started turning in captured groups of terrorists hiding in their midst, then maybe thiswould all be for not. But this war has now gone well beyond that and I think it will keep going until Israel has killed or captured all the known Hezbolla fighters. I do not think that stopping before this is done will bring any peace to the area.

Many here think that there is a diplomatic solution to this war, and I could not disagree more with that. Been there before and done that, and it has never lasted. Maybe there could be a cease fire if the Lebanese people agree to pursuing all known hezbolla fighters and having them stand trial. Along with the agreement to return the kidnaped soldiers and recognize Iraels right to exist. Anything short of this and I would say let them fight it out to the very end, and Israel will then annex the land of Lebanon to be governed by Israeli rule. I think when the stakes get raised to this level it will soon put things on the table that they never would have been before.

As far as the UN goes, I say they should stay out of this as they are pretty much useless in a war. know that I would not want any Canadian troops in this area as peacekeepers as we all know that both side would never really want to keep the peace. It is time to just let it go and come to its natural end. This will put the Muslim extremists in the place of having given a country to their enemy Israel. So they may well need to think twice before ever again using a country in that way again.

[gerryhatrick]

Why is it that people try to shift the blame for who started this war. It was the Lebanese that kidnapped Israeli soldiers

Who is shifting the blame for who started the war? Where is that happening?

And btw, it wasn't the "Lebanese" who kidnapped Israeli soldiers.

You didn't know that much. Since you're so interested in making a point out of "who started it" (as if that excuses Israel for this ecological disaster) how about you tell me who started firing rockets/missiles accross the border first. You claim Hezbollah did, but I remember it different. After the kidnapping Israel began all out military action, which was then followed by cross-border rockets from Hezbollah.

This will put the Muslim extremists in the place of having given a country to their enemy Israel. So they may well need to think twice before ever again using a country in that way again.

Or it will inflame the entire region and cause more violence for years to come that might have been avoided.

[Argus]

Oh but I do blame him. He has been complicit by giving Israel carte blanche to carry on.

Oh please, as if the Israelis base their actions on what Canada thinks or wants or does or says! As if anyone does!

We cannot know how much Harpers comments have influcenced Israeli policy. His words of support made the news in Jewish media, that is for sure.

It is interesting how Harpers supporters will on the one hand will claim Canada is not listened to in the world when their leadership is saying irresponsible things,

Harper did not say anything irresponsible.

yet at the same time are now making noise about Canada reclaiming a place of respect in the world - as if encouraging violence and giving 100% support to Israel = respect.

I think Canada's "place in the world" has disappeared after decades of weaselly, cowardly, wishy-washy playing to the crowds where we self-righteously condemned others from the safety of the american continent, and supported dictators and terrorists whenever there was money to be made or a political pressure group at home to play to. No one sane is going to respect the opinion of someone you know has no honesty or integrity behind their words, but is merely playing both ends against the middle in a desperate effort to please everyone and look "nice". Canada, the "Honest Broker", what a laugh. As if anyone ever came to us and asked us to broker anything, as if we weren't nobodies. The Liberals rammed that "honest broker" BS down our throats for years, along with our sainted reputation as peacekeepers - even when we stopped supplying peacekeepers because they decimated the army.

If Harper positions us solidly, so we speak our minds and vote our consciences regardless of the bitching and moaning of political and ethnic pressure groups then perhaps we might one day regain a measure of respect in the world. I wouldn't count on it happening overnight, though.

[Argus]

By calling their actions a "measured response" and indicating that it was "inevitable" that violence would "escalate" he (Harper) both removed the responsibility for Israels actions or the onus for them to cease.

I think what removed the onus on them to cease fire were hundreds of rockets and missiles coming across their border, which, come to think of it, probably prompted the escalation too.

Yes, there has been hundreds of rockets shot into Israel by Hezbollah. They have killed less than 30 Israeli civilians.

That isn't the point. They have brought life in parts of Israel to a standstill. And even before the current hostilities there were many towns in northern Israel where people were routinely sleeping in bunkers at night.

You can take whatever political tack you want on any particular subject, but the foremost duty of every western government is to keep the barbarians from the gates. And don't kid yourself. Most of the world is made up of barbarians, and those who will, with very little inspiration, gleefully follow the barbarians over the walls to kill, burn and rape. Have a look at the propaganda of how the Iranian government is rabble rousing in preparation of a possible war against Israel. Imagine if Iran actually had power and was next door to Israel. There would certainly be a war as the bearded old men again send floods of wild-eyed teenagers streaming into mind fields and the fields of massed artillery.

If Israel weren't so militarily formidable, the bearded nut cases across the Muslim world would have long since recruited millions of raving barbarians for a holy war against the Jews and sent them streaming across the proverbial walls of Isarel to kill everyone inside.

Israel cannot afford to appear weak - ever. Their survival depends on it.

If that means shattering entire nations because they won't keep a leash on their barbarians, then Israel will just have to do it, despite how much hand-wringing that causes in the safe, noble, righteous west.

[gerryhatrick]

When the Israelis eventually use nukes in retaliation to kids throwing rocks at soldiers, how will you justify that 'measured response?"

I'm sure that would be perfectly allright with him. No joke.

[gerryhatrick]

The reality is that if any country will be obliverated by a nuclear bomb it will be Israel by those Arabs who have nuclear weapons.

Iran is just itching to use their nuclear weapons to become the hero to Arabs around the world by destroying Israel.

There is not a shred of proof that Iran has nuclear weapons.

Where do you get off spreading lies?

[gerryhatrick]

The latest on this oil slick Israel caused is that it's sunk to the sea bed, thereby affecting another host of creatures.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5277706.stm

[Ricki Bobbi]

We get the point gerry you hate Harper. Let's keep to one anti-Harper thread per subject please.

[BubberMiley]

We get the point gerry you hate Harper. Let's keep to one anti-Harper thread per subject please.

I think dismissing any criticism of Harper is "hating Harper" is the lamest debating tactic on this board. It's on par with labelling criticism of Bush as "anti-Americanism."

[gerryhatrick]

We get the point gerry you hate Harper. Let's keep to one anti-Harper thread per subject please.

I think dismissing any criticism of Harper is "hating Harper" is the lamest debating tactic on this board. It's on par with labelling criticism of Bush as "anti-Americanism."

It is the cornerstone tactic of the entire rightwing. "Hating Bush" remains the most common response to any critisism of Bush. "Hating Harper" is a similar phenomenom in Canada.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Are you honestly saying that you don't hate Stephen Harper?

It is the cornerstone tactic of the entire rightwing. "Hating Bush" remains the most common response to any critisism of Bush. "Hating Harper" is a similar phenomenom in Canada.

[gerryhatrick]

Are you honestly saying that you don't hate Stephen Harper?

You should read the forum rules against baiting/trolling.

No, I do not hate Stephen Harper. Far from it. I dislike his ideological policy positions on things like global warming. He is not a leader worthy of Canada.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Baiting/trolling? By asking you a question? hmmm....

At the risk of trolling I will ask you a question. What is the relationship between Harper's statement made before the attack on the oil refinery and the enviornmental damage caused by the oil spill? That doesn't appear to be fair treatment. Seems kinda like the CBC when they made it look like Harper was responding to that woman's questions when he wasn't a few nights back. You see how unfair comparisons can leave people with the wrong idea. Like how some people might read your OP and think Harper's "fair and measured response" quote was connected to the attack on the refinery.

You should read the forum rules against baiting/trolling.

No, I do not hate Stephen Harper. Far from it. I dislike his ideological policy positions on things like global warming. He is not a leader worthy of Canada.