Yound girl testifies about US attack

[gerryhatrick]

Iraqi girl tells of US attack

A young Iraqi girl has given a shocking first hand account of what witnesses claim amounts to mass murder by US troops in the war-torn country.

Ten-year-old Iman Walid lost seven members of her family in an attack by American marines last November.

If her story is true - and it has been disputed by the US military - human rights workers say it is the worst massacre of civilians by US troops in the country.

Iman tells of screaming soldiers entering her house in the Iraqi town of Haditha spraying bullets in every direction.

Fifteen people in all were killed, including her parents and grandparents. Her account has been corroborated by other eyewitnesses who say it was a revenge attack after a roadside bomb killed a marine.

US authorities have launched an investigation to determine whether the killings were the result of self defence, crossfire or murder.

Initially, the US marines issued a statement saying that a roadside bomb had killed 15 civilians, while eight insurgents had been killed in a later gunbattle.

US military officials have since confirmed the 15 civilians were actually shot dead.

http://www.channel4.com/news/content/news-....jsp?id=1385503

Gee, who should I believe....a ten year old girl or the US military? Considering they initially reported a road-side bomb killed these people and NOW admit they were all shot, it's looking like an easy decision.

Time for them to leave.

[geoffrey]

Motive?

Oh wait, thats always lacking in the cases of the anti-war movement.

Why the hell would US troops want to go and slaughter people for fun?

[gerryhatrick]

Motive?

Oh wait, thats always lacking in the cases of the anti-war movement.

Why the hell would US troops want to go and slaughter people for fun?

Did you read the article? Oh wait, that's always lacking in the rightwing reaction.

It was a revenge killing. A soldier was killed in a roadside shortly before, and they burst through the door (perhaps after getting some "information" or perhaps saw someone run in the door...who knows.) spraying bullets.

Her account has been corroborated by other eyewitnesses who say it was a revenge attack after a roadside bomb killed a marine.

Just tell us straight out if you're accusing the girl of lying, mmmK?

She lost 7 family members, is she now on an anti-US propaganda mission? That it?

[margrace]

Oh how quickly we forget, that's why some will tell you that history isn't important, Remember Viet Nam, remember Mai Lai (Sp). That was a whole village massacured by who, the Americans.

[geoffrey]

I'm saying its not US policy to kill innocents.

If someone goes wonky, then obviously it could happen. People do it in the US and Canada, massive shootings of innocents isn't that unusual.

Blaming US policy for the mental illness of some is just beyond far-fetched.

[gerryhatrick]

Blaming US policy for the mental illness of some is just beyond far-fetched.

Who blamed the policy? You're all over the place with your straw men Geoffrey.

[geoffrey]

Blaming US policy for the mental illness of some is just beyond far-fetched.

Who blamed the policy? You're all over the place with your straw men Geoffrey.

In your original post, you said its time for them to leave. I was merely assuming you were on topic when you said that.

I don't see how this story, if true, shows that the US should leave. Like I said, this happens all too often in Canada and the US too... over far less important things. Like lost job shooting rampages.

[KrustyKidd]

Gee, who should I believe....a ten year old girl or the US military?

Gee Gerry, those guys deserve punishment then. Better leave them there to get shot at and killed rather than go home and live their lives in freedom and have this ten year old girl killed in sectarian vilolence.

[moderateamericain]

Gee, who should I believe....a ten year old girl or the US military?

Gee Gerry, those guys deserve punishment then. Better leave them there to get shot at and killed rather than go home and live their lives in freedom and have this ten year old girl killed in sectarian vilolence.

Yes lets dictate policy by the actions of a few. COME ON PEOPLE! How many civilians were massacred in world war 2? Should we have pulled out of Europe for one massacre? Im not saying its right but a Platoon Commander who could not keep control of his Squad is hardly grounds for radical change in policy.

[Nocrap]

Gee, who should I believe....a ten year old girl or the US military?

Gee Gerry, those guys deserve punishment then. Better leave them there to get shot at and killed rather than go home and live their lives in freedom and have this ten year old girl killed in sectarian vilolence.

Yes lets dictate policy by the actions of a few. COME ON PEOPLE! How many civilians were massacred in world war 2? Should we have pulled out of Europe for one massacre? Im not saying its right but a Platoon Commander who could not keep control of his Squad is hardly grounds for radical change in policy.

I'll bet this is not an isolated incident. Many of these soldiers are just kids, thrown into a war where the people they were told they were fighting for, just want them to heck out. Bush and his administration can defend their policies at home until they are hoarse, but it is the young men and women in Iraq who are left to make sense of it all.

My heart is with the soldiers, my anger is directed at the Bush administration.

[lost&outofcontrol]

Alberto Gonzales advised Bush to rescind the Geneva Conventions since this would, "substantially reduces the threat of domestic criminal prosecution under the War Crimes Act." Passed in 1996.

Read the How to Destroy a City to Save It paragraph in this text. You'll know why Gonzales advised Bush to do this.

[Nocrap]

Alberto Gonzales advised Bush to rescind the Geneva Conventions since this would, "substantially reduces the threat of domestic criminal prosecution under the War Crimes Act." Passed in 1996.

Read the How to Destroy a City to Save It paragraph in this text. You'll know why Gonzales advised Bush to do this.

Very tragic. Many members of the Bush Administration should have to face a War Crimes Tribunal, but I'm not holding my breath.

I think that if George W. did not have the money and power behind him, he would have probably been a serial killer. That sneer on his face when he speaks of the war is chilling. Reminds me of Charles Manson.

[KrustyKidd]

but it is the young men and women in Iraq who are left to make sense of it all.

And, if they don't do their job then our children may be reaping the Conservative Wahhabist whirlwind.

I think that if George W. did not have the money and power behind him, he would have probably been a serial killer.

This is scientific analysis from yourself, a qualified individual or just another immature ranting from a leftist who doesn't have a clue of what is going on so they just jump aboard the socialist bandwagon, with all the propaganda fthat it carries with it ad nausium?

That sneer on his face when he speaks of the war is chilling.

The twisted hatred on the face of anti war people is far more phsycotic than any facial expression Bush ever put on.

Here, an example of the idocy at work. Read somewhere some person actually said th Bush reminds him of Charles Manson. Now, on what basis would they figure that a guy who is elected President should be compared to another homless drifter who slices people up for no apparent reason? Only in the minds of morons.

[gerryhatrick]

Here, an example of the idocy at work. Read somewhere some person actually said th Bush reminds him of Charles Manson. Now, on what basis would they figure that a guy who is elected President should be compared to another homless drifter who slices people up for no apparent reason? Only in the minds of morons.

Rightwingers have a difficult time with nuance. If a comparison is made, it's confusing unless the two things are exactly alike.

Obviously Bush is not a homeless drifter and as far as we know does not slice up people, yes. However, the person you "read somewhere" might have been saying Bush commands a cult-like power over his followers. That is a fair comparison. He also claims the death and descruction he has sown was justified, when it clearly was not and was woven with deceit.

[KrustyKidd]

might have been saying Bush commands a cult-like power over his followers.

Name us a few people who do things because Bush has some sort of power over them other than by his office.

when it clearly was not and was woven with deceit.

Gerry, it is not so clear though. As a matter of fact, you have a hard time even making any of those 'clear' points even float here.

[Drea]

but it is the young men and women in Iraq who are left to make sense of it all.

And, if they don't do their job then our children may be reaping the Conservative Wahhabist whirlwind.

I think that if George W. did not have the money and power behind him, he would have probably been a serial killer.

This is scientific analysis from yourself, a qualified individual or just another immature ranting from a leftist who doesn't have a clue of what is going on so they just jump aboard the socialist bandwagon, with all the propaganda fthat it carries with it ad nausium?

That sneer on his face when he speaks of the war is chilling.

The twisted hatred on the face of anti war people is far more phsycotic than any facial expression Bush ever put on.

Here, an example of the idocy at work. Read somewhere some person actually said th Bush reminds him of Charles Manson. Now, on what basis would they figure that a guy who is elected President should be compared to another homless drifter who slices people up for no apparent reason? Only in the minds of morons.

KK, no crap did not insult YOU, she insulted GW Bush. I agree with her, if not for politics, GW Bush would have probably been a serial killer (he is already, but he can hide behind his country as reason for being so)

Why would you then insult her -- calling her a moron?

Isn't it against the forum rules to insult the poster?

Unless of course, like many Bush followers, you believe you are so close to him that you feel personally insulted?

[KrustyKidd]

GW Bush would have probably been a serial killer

Based on what scientific evidence? And, sexual (and what orientation) or control? And what are the telling signs that lead you to this conclusions other than just flipping out words? What are the telltale earmarks please.

Guessing that you are just wandering with words rather than having something more substancial to base this strong observation on, I have some light reading for you to use as a reference in making your profile of Bush the serial killer.

For a crime such as serial killing there are two main schools of thought. The first idea is that serial killing is caused by an abnormality in the frontal lobe region of the brain. Another theory is that serial killers are bred by circumstance.

Which is it and why?

Antonio and Anna Damasio, two noted Portuguese neurologists and researchers working in the University of Iowa, have been investigating in the last decade the neurological basis of psychopathy. They have shown that individuals who had undergone damage to the ventromedial frontal cortex (and who had normal personalities before the damage) developed abnormal social conduct, leading to negative personal consequences.

Can you enlighten us on the event please?

As the study of the profiles of serial killers progresses many similarities in their pasts, and in their recurring actions become eerily apparent.

Can you provide the events that were relevent here please?

For example, the most common form of color blindness, affects about 7 percent of men and less than 1 percent of women. It is identified as a sex-linked hereditary characteristic, passed from the mother to her son. (7) Can the same be said for serial killing?

Or is it disease?

More reference to help.

In many cases, the killer and victims are strangers who just recently met.

Would this be his method?

Would he be disorganized and asocial or organized and nonsocial? Which of the following would he be and why?

ACT-FOCUSED (quick kill)

1 - THE VISIONARY - hears voices or sees visions that tell him to kill (psychotic), the voices tend to be either God or the devil, legitimating the violence.

2- THE MISSIONARY - goes on hunting "missions" to eradicate a group of people (prostitutes, Jews, etc.) from face of earth, seems like "fine young man" to neighbors.

PROCESS-FOCUSED (slow kill)

3 - THE COMFORT-ORIENTED HEDONIST - takes pleasure from killing, but also gets some profit or personal gain from it. Females usually in this category.

4 - THE LUST-ORIENTED HEDONIST - associates sexual pleasure with murder, sex while killing and necrophilia are eroticized experiences.

5 - THE THRILL-ORIENTED HEDONIST - gets a "rush" or "high" from killing, an elixir of thrills, excitement, and euphoria at victim's final anguish.

6 - THE POWER/CONTROL FREAK - takes pleasure from manipulation and domination (sociopath), experiences a "rush" or "high" from victim's misery.

There's lots more but you have some proof to supply so will wait for that.

Why would you then insult her -- calling her a moron? Isn't it against the forum rules to insult the poster?

It is. And I did not insult her/him, rather an entire loose genre of people who flip out wild and ridiculous assertations without proof. In absence of any scientific proof, I believe those who perscribe to this emotional play can be grouped in certain catagories (unless of course there is scientific evidence for this ridiculoua asertation in which case, people that perscribe to this belief of GW being a serial killer can fairly be classed as intellectuals) This evidence was not supplied and, more than likely will not be supplied hence, people without evidence that make wild accusations can seek the proper support group under their applicable catagory reguardless of who they are. Hence, some without proof are blowhards, others, morons, some can be childish and others just emotional wishers. Nocrap, Gerry and yourself I imagine have proof and scientific as well as phsycological evidence galore to supply to back your point up so naturally would not fit into any of the basic idiot or morn catagories. But rather the intellectual ones (once proof has been supplied of course.)

[gerryhatrick]

Krusty, your posts are too long and pointless.

[gerryhatrick]

might have been saying Bush commands a cult-like power over his followers.

Name us a few people who do things because Bush has some sort of power over them other than by his office.

No.

If you're too out of touch to have seen the cult-like behaviour of many of his followers (crying at a rally, for example....defending him in the face of the truth, for another) then I can't help you.

People are amazed he got elected for a second term. They shouldn't be, the power of the cult was strong. It was no accident, it was manipulation

[KrustyKidd]

Krusty, your posts are too long and pointless.

I imagine they are very confusing to people who only have one point such as yourself but being on a board where you are supposed to discuss reasons and ramifications of politics they are not. At least to the normal person. Do try to elevate your discussional technique and base knowledge from;

You: Bush Sucks. End of discussion to;

Allowing facts and counter arguments to enter your mental realm. As I stated before Gerry, if you can't respond and participate in intellectual debating, try a blog and set the 'allow reply' option to 'no.' You will find a much more enjoyable life I think given the limited abilty to debate that you have displayed.

People are amazed he got elected for a second term.

The small fraction that have a phsycotic affliction with the man and can't stop posting about him I suppose, but, the majority who voted for him do not. I guess that common sense can be viewed by some as a 'cult.' and those would see reality as a hopless expanse of territory they are too afrraid to explore.

If you're too out of touch to have seen the cult-like behaviour of many

of the people at a Dean, Moore, Sheehan, Gore, anti war, anti Bush, anti government types

(crying at a rally, for example....then I can't help you.]

These people actually believe Bush is worse than Hitler. Funny, Hitler whipped his people up by using minorities while Bush is trying to save Jews and minorities and is even accused of being pro Jewish and even owned by the Jews. Crackpots huh?

[lost&outofcontrol]

People are amazed he got elected for a second term.

First the choice was between a giant douche and a turd sandwich and second whether a democrat or a republican is in the white house, the real power lies within the military and intelligence apparatus. Civilian political institutions including the US congress increasingly becomes a facade. A journalist ask Bush in a 2000 interview what he though about the Taliban, Bush though he was talking about a rock band!