$1-million homes

[Leafless]

All I got to say is Canada gone nuts!

If things go as predicted in four years average homes in Vancouver will be selling for $1-million with larger cities like Toronto and Ottawa close behind.

These high priced homes are mainly being sold to wealthy foreigners (the only ones who can afford these places) and do indeed make many people rich.

But what is this doing for average home grown Canadians who also need a place to live?

Not much, with many older sons and daughters returning home to live with their parents because of the un-availability of reasonable priced housing or forced to live in rental accomodation plaqued by low class lifestyles caused by to many people living in the same units sharing the rent.

The housing market has become very problamatic and no one seems to be doing much about it.

What do you think should be done to alleviate the situation other than sell Canada out to foreigners?

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

[Riverwind]

If things go as predicted in four years average homes in Vancouver will be selling for $1-million with larger cities like Toronto and Ottawa close behind.

The article has its facts wrong: the average house price in Greater Vancouver is no where near $700K. That is likely the average price for the City of Vancouver. The average price for all of the surburbs of Vancouver is still around the $300 range.

But what is this doing for average home grown Canadians who also need a place to live?

They need to change their expectations and look for townhomes or apartments. It is unreasonable to assume that everyone who grew up in a detached home will be able to have one of their own since the population of the country is increasing but the available land in the major centers is shrinking.

What do you think should be done to alleviate the situation other than sell Canada out to foreigners?

Foreigners are paying Canadians good money for their properties. In the long term, housing prices can only rise to a level that is affordable to people who live in the area. It is worth recalling 1987: there was similar panic about affordability in the Toronto housing market - the market collapsed and it took nearly 15 years for prices to rise back to the levels in the 80s.

[cybercoma]

Don't move to Vancouver.

Consumers drive the market and the actual value of the homes may be roughly $200,000, but people are willing to pay that extra $800,000 to walk to work or have that social status that seperates them from others.

So, how does it get fixed?

Don't be stupid and spend $1-million on a home in Vancouver. Don't live in Vancouver. When the demand drops for the homes, so will the prices.

[Leafless]

cybercoma

You wrote- " Don't be stupid and spend $1-million dollars on a home in Vancouver. don't live in Vancouver.

When the demand drops, so will the prices."

It isn't Canadians buying these expensive homes it is foreigners who are also snapping up the $200,000 homes.

We are displacing Canadians who cannot even find a home at the lower level.

In fact I know younger people who spend $175,000 for a small modest townhouse and have to maintain three or four jobs in order to pay for it. Loose one job and you lose your home.

The money one gets on a resale sounds good but only if you sit on the money. If you buy something else it's all lost plus probably a small mortgage.

Selling cities that include artificially high priced homes out to foreigners to cover high infrastructure cost will have LONG TERM CONSEQUENCES with the possibility of young and old out on the street with no place to live.

[Riverwind]

It isn't Canadians buying these expensive homes it is foreigners who are also snapping up the $200,000 homes.

There are a gut of rental properties now so these 'foreigners' are likely purchasing the properties to live in them. In which case they are contributing to the local economy.

In fact I know younger people who spend $175,000 for a small modest townhouse and have to maintain three or four jobs in order to pay for it. Loose one job and you lose your home.

It costs over $200K to build a new detached home today even if you got the land for free so $175K is not an unreasonable price. Are you expecting the gov't to subsidize the cost of building houses now?

The money one gets on a resale sounds good but only if you sit on the money. If you buy something else it's all lost plus probably a small mortgage.

It is a great deal if you retire and move to a smaller community.

Selling cities that include artificially high priced homes out to foreigners to cover high infrastructure cost will have LONG TERM CONSEQUENCES with the possibility of young and old out on the street with no place to live.

There would be serious long term consequences if the gov't tried to regulate real estate prices. The best thing the gov't can do is invest in infrastructure that allows business activity to move out to the suburbs - this would mean more people would be able to afford places close to their jobs.

[Renegade]

These high priced homes are mainly being sold to wealthy foreigners (the only ones who can afford these places) and do indeed make many people rich.

How do you substitiate your statemetn that these homes are "mainly being sold to wealthy foreigners"? The article made no such claim.

But what is this doing for average home grown Canadians who also need a place to live?

Not much, with many older sons and daughters returning home to live with their parents because of the un-availability of reasonable priced housing or forced to live in rental accomodation plaqued by low class lifestyles caused by to many people living in the same units sharing the rent.

Housing affordablility is the best its been in decades. So why is it they can't afford their own place?

[Leafless]

Riverwind

You wrote- " There's a gut of rental properties now so these foreigners are likely purchasing the properties to live in them. In which case they are contributing to the local economy."

So what !

The point is a lot foreigners or new immigrants are buying these homes.

Don't you realize you are displacing 'home grown Canadians' by doing this by actually making housing less available and then further increasing housing again with inevitable tax increases contributing to yet higher home prices.

That's the point.

You also wrote- " Are you expecting government to subsidize the cost of building house now."

Governments have already done enough implementing amalgamation in many cities thus increasing municiple taxes when your supposed to save in taxes, resulting in higher assessment values of existing housing thus artificially increasing the cost of housing.

B.C has sold out that province by advertizing internationally for propective buyers and the same is happening in larger cities across Canada resulting with new immigrants taking over the high cost of cities fiscally mismanged.

In other words well heeled new immigrants are being encouraged basically by government (who does not oppose foreigners buying into Canadian real estate) basically because of cities who failed existing Canadians with proper fiscal management.

There are simply not enough existing home grown Canadians who can afford these new high prices caused by fiscal mismanagement.

It is to late for governments to do anything as high paying jobs cannot be created from thin air and this is why the emphasis is on immigration to get the government out of it's self created dilema.

I would rather see subsidized housing anyday then to sell out the country to rich foreign immigrants.

[Leafless]

Renegade

You wrote- " How do you substitate that these homes are mainly being sold to wealthy foreigners? The article made no such claim."

Third short paragraph from the bottom.

I don't know where your from but in my city I just have to drive out to the suburbs or basically any section of the city to see non- whites all over the place in high priced housing and have spoken to many to confirm this.

Actually there are no statistics to confirm this but one only as to look at B.C. to see the high ratio of non-white immigration and what it has done to B.C.

You also wrote- " Housing affordability has been the best in decades."

Low interest rates won't last forever and many Canadians are in homes they can't really afford and are living well beyond their means as attested by private debt to the tune of $628-billion dolars which well exceeds our gross national deficit.

You sound like a spoiled federal public servant or maybe school teacher.

How many good paying jobs do you actually think there are in Canada?

[RB]

All I got to say is Canada gone nuts!

The housing prices are terribly inflated. I mean this is the same house you've been in all the while and now all of a sudden its a million bucks. I am going to sell before this market sudden collapse because thats where its heading.

[Riverwind]

Actually there are no statistics to confirm this but one only as to look at B.C. to see the high ratio of non-white immigration and what it has done to B.C.

BC has the most vibrant economy in Canada next to Alberta so I guess that means you are saying non-white immigration is good for the economy.

Low interest rates won't last forever and many Canadians are in homes they can't really afford and are living well beyond their means as attested by private debt to the tune of $628-billion dolars which well exceeds our gross national deficit.

Housing prices will correct when interest rates go up. Speculators and those that over extended themselves will lose out but many others who were more prudent in their financial planning will do fine - even if that means they are stuck in a house they can only sell at loss for 10 or 15 years.

[Renegade]

Renegade

You wrote- " How do you substitate that these homes are mainly being sold to wealthy foreigners? The article made no such claim."

Third short paragraph from the bottom.

Leafless, it is an stunning and unsubstantiated leap to conclude based upon a statement "There's definitely interest from international buyers, still from the UK, northern Europe and other countries," that homes are mainly sold to wealthy foreigners. Unless you have something more definiative, this is pure BS.

I don't know where your from but in my city I just have to drive out to the suburbs or basically any section of the city to see non- whites all over the place in high priced housing and have spoken to many to confirm this.

Actually there are no statistics to confirm this but one only as to look at B.C. to see the high ratio of non-white immigration and what it has done to B.C.

I'm from GTA and there are plenty non-whites everywhere. Unlike you, I don't see it as a problem, and I don't consider non-whites any different than Canadian. What exactly are you contending? That we are letting in too many immigrants and that they are driving up property values? In my view, if we are accepting immigrants who have the wealth to buy expensive properties, this can only be beneficial to the community, as that same wealth will spur investment in the local economy.

You also wrote- " Housing affordability has been the best in decades."

Low interest rates won't last forever and many Canadians are in homes they can't really afford and are living well beyond their means as attested by private debt to the tune of $628-billion dolars which well exceeds our gross national deficit.

You are quite right that low interest rates won't last forever, however neither are they are likely to reach the levels of the 80s. Part of the reason for high house prices is low rates and any increase in rates will also temper house prices. You are correct that some people will live beyond their means. But that is no different a situation than has always been the case.

You sound like a spoiled federal public servant or maybe school teacher.

How many good paying jobs do you actually think there are in Canada?

I'm neither. I think there are plenty of great jobs in Canada for those who are industrious, talented, and hardworking enough to pursue them.

One other thing, I would appreciate if you can use the quote facility. It will make both your and my life much easier.

[JerrySeinfeld]

SOme houses in vancouver are expensive, others are like $700K or even lesss so its not that bad.

Housing will correct, however as rates rise and the speculators head for the door.

[Leafless]

Renegade

You wrote- " Unless you have something more definate this is pure BS."

Consider B.C.'s ethnic population alone.

The Liberals were detirmined years ago to rid the British out of Columbia ( in name) and succeeded.

You also wrote- " In my view if we are accepting immigrants who have the wealth to buy expensive properties, this can only be benefical to the community, as that same wealth will spur investment in the local economy."

Now that statement is pure BS.

What you are doing or they is pricing Whities out of their own housing market now taken over by ethnic immigrants who impose their minority culture and religion destroying Canadian beliefs and traditons. The investment ethnic buisness owners put into the community from what I understand is minimal as most of their buisnesses are family operated employing few Canadians or people of their own culture.

You must remember Charter Rights and multiculturalism was imposed on Canadians without a national referendum or even a revolution.

Canadians never had any say concerning Charter Rights, multiculturalism and related immigration.

You also wrote- " You are correct that some people will live beyond their means. But that is no different a situation than has always been the case."

No sorry.

Personal debt is at record highs and I believe $22,000 for every man woman and child in the country or $628 billion. I posted that link in another thread just recently. Actually I found another link stating an even higher amount somewhere around $740-billion.

This is why the government is trying hard to keep interest rates down and considering the possibility of long term mortgages as no one really knows what will happen in the event of a substantial increase in interest rates.

I use my own quotes to save bandwidth and only use what's necessary to get my point across. Gregg cautioned about the abuse of over quoting.

[Riverwind]

What you are doing or they is pricing Whities out of their own housing market now taken over by ethnic immigrants who impose their minority culture and religion destroying Canadian beliefs and traditons.

What you forget is there vast majority of immigrants are not any weathier than the average Canadian who was born here and they get priced out of the market too.

In any case, the problem is not caused by wealthy immigrants - the problem is caused by increases in population. You would see the same thing happen if 'Whiteys' were willing to breed enough to replace themselves. Since they don't want to do that we really have two options: live with the economic problems created by a declining population or allow immigration.

Go ahead and start a thread about stopping all immigration, however, there is no point in arguing that something should be done to prevent weathy immigrants from buying real estate.

[Leafless]

Riverwind

You wrote- " What you forget is the vast majority of immigrants are not any wealthier than the average Canadian who was born here and they get priced out of the market to."

This is partially true as Canadian cities DO NOT have the infrastructure to accomodate swarms of ethnic immigrants who also strain welfare resources.

But wealthier immigrants are snapping up more expensive housing due to international advertising as Canada being a multicultural country race protected country and are responsible for a large increase in small buisness mainly boutiques of various types with many dominated by Muslims.

This problem cannot be blamed on immigrants entirely but mainly on corporate Canada who always seems to be in collusion with the banks and federal and provincial governments.

You also wrote- " In any case the problem is not caused by wealthy immigrants- the problem is caused by increases in population. You would see the same thing if 'Whitey's were willing enough to breed enough to replace themselves."

If White's are smart enough NOT TO BREED when the resources are not there to support family ideologies deserve great credit and admiration from other populations that are TO DUMB to do the same thing.

Canada will not achieve much by stuffing the country with ethnics who think Canada is a cool place to live and live in conditions no Canadian would tolerate. How nice to fast tracked to an established modern society and to plaster the country with little boutiques in which our federal government uses created tax money to support other self-rightous socities like the aboriginals and Quebec.

You also wrote- " live with economic problems created by a decling population or allow immigration."

Canada just does not have the type of investor confidence required to succeed and is hampered by an inferior climate and high labour rate which will doom it's existence regardless.

My answer is for governments to stop hallucinating and stop torturing Canadians with false hopes of economic grandeur and if allowed or permitted join up with the great U.S.A. as this is our only hope of salvation and will occur at some point regardless.

And I say sooner the better.

[Riverwind]

My answer is for governments to stop hallucinating and stop torturing Canadians with false hopes of economic grandeur and if allowed or permitted join up with the great U.S.A. as this is our only hope of salvation and will occur at some point regardless.

Your hypocrisy is breathtaking. One minute you are bemoaning how immigrants are destroying Canadian values and the next minute you are say we should just give up on the entire country and join the US. You seem to have a very narrow view of the country (not to mention a very naive view of the US which is undergoing to similar demographic changes - how's your Spanish?). Fortunately your views are not shared by many people. I myself prefer the overpriced but diverse city of Vancouver over the the stifling monoculture of the prairie town I grew up in.

But you don't address the real issue: our economy is built on a pyramid that presumes a constantly growing population. For that reason we need to have some level of immigration since you can't force people to have children they don't want. Personally, I would like to see us depend less on immigration and move to a economy that works without a growing population, however, my reasons are based on environmental concerns not rascism.

[Leafless]

Riverbend

Our family has been in Canada since 1765 and I know what Iam talking about.

Quebec has been running the country since the Trudeau era that included many detrimental changes that affected the rest of Canada but served and advanced Quebec ideologies mainly through it's association with the federal Liberals.

The country cannot afford to service two main independent solitudes along with Aboriginal demands and associated multiculturalism and that's what the PROBLEM is.

Our economy will not support a growing population as you can see for example in the T.O. area with many related MAJOR immigration and infrastructure problems.

The country cannot exist on service and sales forever.

It requires manufacturing and for now that is being addressed by exploiting countries like China with ultra low labour rates but won't last forever.

Canadian manufacturing relies on the U.S. as it's ownly main export country and this is why we should become part of the U.S. while the going is good as natural resources won't last forever and if the U.S. ever really wants them due to any type of U.S.-Canada friction it can bring Canada to it's knees ant time it chooses without resorting to any kind of weaponery.

Corporate Canada will keep Canada alive one way or the other until every last red cent is extracted from the system.

The level of personal debt has never been higher and mostly everyone owes heavily for everthing they think they own. This is what helps to keep the country functional at this time.

Our views are different and I would strongly suggest you are the one that is being naive.

[Renegade]

Renegade

You wrote- " Unless you have something more definate this is pure BS."

Consider B.C.'s ethnic population alone.

The Liberals were detirmined years ago to rid the British out of Columbia ( in name) and succeeded.

So? How does that prove that wealthy foreigners are driving up house prices?

You also wrote- " In my view if we are accepting immigrants who have the wealth to buy expensive properties, this can only be benefical to the community, as that same wealth will spur investment in the local economy."

Now that statement is pure BS.

BS? Why, because you say so? Provide some evidence that it is BS. See the following quote:

Another popular myth about immigration is that immigrants take more from the public treasury in the way of social services, health care, and education than they contribute in tax revenues. While economic theory alone cannot resolve this debate, a hard look at the data can. Once again, the empirical evidence shows that this viewpoint is both misinformed and unjustified. In an examination of the tax data, Akbari and finds that, contrary to the popular view, immigrants are net contributors to the public treasury. See Ather H. Akbari, "The Benefits of Immigration to Canada: Evidence on Tax and Public Services," Canadian Public Policy, vol. 15, no. 4, 1989, pp. 424-435.Note He writes:

[A]n immigrant household entering Canada in 1980 when evaluated over 35 years of its stay at the 1980 real discount rate of 2.5 percent, was worth $46,056. Even when we ignore the financing of public goods, the immigrant household was worth $29,185 in net present value transfer payments. This compares with the 1980 average employment earnings of the non-immigrant household which was only $17,311. Hence an immigrant household could be considered a profitable investment for the non-immigrant household in that year. Ibid., p 432.Note

This conclusion is also supported by evidence from the United States. Economist Julian Simon, author of the most authoritative study on the economics of immigration, finds that in the United States, like in Canada, immigrants have been net contributors to the public purse. See Julian L. Simon, The Economic Consequences of Immigration, Oxford: Basil Blackwell Ltd., 1989.Note After studying how much native-born Americans benefit from immigration in terms of benefits received for taxes paid, Simon concluded that:

The Fraser Institute: Immigration Policy

What you are doing or they is pricing Whities out of their own housing market now taken over by ethnic immigrants who impose their minority culture and religion destroying Canadian beliefs and traditons.

So you don't think Whites are immigrants as well? The only difference between whites and non-whites is when they or their ancestors arrived. I'm failing to understand how an immigrant's religion and culture is destroying yours. And what exactly are "Canadian beliefs and traditions"

The investment ethnic buisness owners put into the community from what I understand is minimal as most of their buisnesses are family operated employing few Canadians or people of their own culture.

Again do you have an evidence of this? So you think that ethnic owned business are only contributing if they employ whites? Do the taxes they pay count for anything? Do the goods and services they purchase and drive the economy count for anything? Apparently not to you.

You must remember Charter Rights and multiculturalism was imposed on Canadians without a national referendum or even a revolution.

Canadians never had any say concerning Charter Rights, multiculturalism and related immigration.

Absolutely you and other Canadians had a say. The proper term for it is an "election".

You also wrote- " You are correct that some people will live beyond their means. But that is no different a situation than has always been the case."

No sorry.

Personal debt is at record highs and I believe $22,000 for every man woman and child in the country or $628 billion. I posted that link in another thread just recently. Actually I found another link stating an even higher amount somewhere around $740-billion.

This is why the government is trying hard to keep interest rates down and considering the possibility of long term mortgages as no one really knows what will happen in the event of a substantial increase in interest rates.

People take on or should take on a level of debt they are comfortable with. If they overextend themselves and put themselves at risk if interest rates go up, then they deserve what they get.

I use my own quotes to save bandwidth and only use what's necessary to get my point across. Gregg cautioned about the abuse of over quoting.

It's a free world. If you don't want to use quotes no one is going to make you. I'm giving you some feedback as a reader that it would be much easier to read your post if you used them. BTW, there is no or negligible difference in bandwidth if you used the provided quote facility.

[Leafless]

Renegade

Obviously we have different views concerning ETHNIC immigration and the evolution of Canada since the Trudeau era and the reasons for ethnic immigration initially.

We can bat the ball back and forth all day and it won't achieve anything if you do not have a basic understanding how a corrupt government manipulated Canadians to accept it's dictatorial official languages, bi-culturalism changed to multi-culturalism, corrupt discriminatory Charter changes and a federal movement to change the face of Canada to accomodate cultural obsessed ethnic immigration to appease the desires of a cultural dominated Quebec, that is make culture an important prerequiste of being a Canadian. That is from primarily a single majority English culture (that still is) that never needed it's language 'officialized' to accomodate a nonsensical artificial multi-cultural socities and groups.

This was done to break the English stranglehold it had on Canada and put French Quebec in a positon of power as well as other sub cultures.

What is happening to-day is the ROC is paying dearly to support Quebec as an independent solitude all because most Canadians initially were to weak to stand up to a corrupt federal government who were basically re-writing history for the benefit of Quebec.

Your arguments are based from the federal government viewpoint and not from citizen's of Canada who have lived through and experienced the dictatorial manipulative actions of the Liberal party of Canada.

I cannot debate from what I consider corrupt policies and statistics developed by a corrupt government.

[Renegade]

I cannot debate from what I consider corrupt policies and statistics developed by a corrupt government.

Fine, let's see what you have from other sources then.

[Riverwind]

I cannot debate from what I consider corrupt policies and statistics developed by a corrupt government.

What a convenient way to deny reality - just call people criminals if they present information that might force you to reconsider your opinions.

Racism of the type you express is a waste of time - eventually, there will be so many people of mixed race in Canada that the question of 'race' will become irrelevant.

[Leafless]

Riverwind

You wrote- " Racism of the type you express is a waste of time"

What racism are you talking about 'that I express'?

Approx. twenty-five years of Liberal rule have propagated seeds of hate primarily by allowing Quebec to discriminate in a racial way against the ROC with the federal government actually promoting French in a way that discriminates even further.

You also wrote- " eventually, there will be so many people of mixed race in Canada that the question of race will become irrevelent."

Right now the country is showing signs of severe cultural rot in cities like Toronto plagued with major infrastructure problems, crime and race incompatability.

A country will cease to function if there is not common loyalities to a country including a common national religion. Human nature will simply not allow a country of your description to exist unless it is similar to the U.S. with realitive united loyalities, something I doubt Canada will ever achieve due to Charter rights and split solitudes.

[Riverwind]

What racism are you talking about 'that I express'?

You keep talking about the colour of someone's skin. That is irrelevant. Culture is what is significant not race.

Right now the country is showing signs of severe cultural rot in cities like Toronto plagued with major infrastructure problems, crime and race incompatability.

There is a Jamacian problem in Toronto and possibly a Somali problem. Both are issues of culture not race. However, Vancouver is a racially mixed city and there are no serious issues caused by cultural or racial conflicts.

A country will cease to function if there is not common loyalities to a country including a common national religion.

Why is a common religion necessary? There was a time when the distinction between protestant and catholic was something worth killing over, however, people have learned to respect differences. The same is happening with most followers of other religions living in Canada. Religious tolerance and diversity is one of the most important values that we must have in out society if we want it to function well.

[Leafless]

Riverwind

Culture is a COMPONENT of race and as a White English speaking Canadian it is my choice to distinguish by colour to identify and support controversial issues involving racial incompatibility.

I think we have a racial problems in Canada and as you pointed out it is Jamacian and Somali problems in Toronto and people I know further identify B.C. as problamatic (including my brother who lives there)concerning racial incompatibility.

As you pointed out certain volatile areas between Catholic and Protestant were worth killing over and still is as attested in Ireland. But the fact remains both these religions are part of Christianity which is the main religion in both the U.S. and Canada and is very much responsible for the successful socities harboured in both countries.

Surely you must recognize the present volatilty in religions like Islamic combined with Shari Law do not contribute to a nations peacefull co-existence and would be foolhardy to suggest they do as religion is part of culture a component of race which is proven volatile like as what you described as the Jamacian and Somali problem in Toronto.

[Renegade]

What racism are you talking about 'that I express'?

The stunning part of your posts Leafless, is that you spew racism and religious bigotry in virtually every sentence, yet are too blind to see it in yourself.

You draw all kinds of radical racial conclusions, and provide ZERO evidence to back your claims other than your say so.