Should Canada do more For it's Citizens abroad?

[Argus]

The Star notes today, that if you're a Canadian abroad and run into trouble you're pretty much on your own. This is not, or should not be news. It's been known for some time. Many Canadians, however, appear to think their government cares about their interests abroad, and will take some unspecified action if they need help. That just isn't the case. Canadians can languish in prisons overseas for years with our government showing little care or interest. The infamous case of Canadian Bill Sampson in Saudi Arabia, held there for what was clearly nonsensical reasons, tortured, beaten, and with hardly a peep of protest from our government, stands out. But there are many similar cases. I recall years ago when Mulroney, i think it was, visited one of the "front line" states (Zambia) bordering South Africa to express his solidarity for them. There was a small piece in the Star then about a Canadian having been in a filthy, underground cell for a year and a half without charge. The Canadian government couldn't have cared less.

The star today talks mainly about Canadians being the victims of crime abroad, but it's also true that they are the victims of illness, or run afoul of corrupt local governments without us doing much of anything to help. Toronto Star

The US is shown as being far superior in this regard, but this is simply the lazy journalism of the reporter involved. The US is not, in fact, all that good at protecting the interests of its individual citizens abroad. It cares more about trade and military relations with foreign states than its citizens. The two nations which are said to be by far and away the ones which put the most effort into aiding its citizens abroad are the UK and Israel.

[cybercoma]

I should see if I can dig up the article about the guys from Windsor that were thrown in jail in Michigan. The Detroit River divides Detroit, Michigan and Windsor, Ontario. A group of boaters from Canada were on the river and were caught on the American side by the coast guard. The border is drawn down the middle of the river. They didn't have the proper paperwork on them and were thrown in prison in the United States, where it took our government almost a month and a half to take care of identifying them as Canadian citizens.

[wellandboy]

I should see if I can dig up the article about the guys from Windsor that were thrown in jail in Michigan. The Detroit River divides Detroit, Michigan and Windsor, Ontario. A group of boaters from Canada were on the river and were caught on the American side by the coast guard. The border is drawn down the middle of the river. They didn't have the proper paperwork on them and were thrown in prison in the United States, where it took our government almost a month and a half to take care of identifying them as Canadian citizens.

If memory serves these boneheads were nailed by Michigan Fish and Game and Coast guard. The same rules apply when I fish the Upper and Lower Niagara, you simply get both New york and Ontario fishing licenses, plus make certain your boat is both Canadain and US Coastguard compliant. Safety is also a big issue on both waterways for different reasons. The Niagara obviously for the currents and whirlpools (the Falls) and in the Detroit because of the nasty 8 ft. wakes created by lakers and salty's plying the relatively narrow channel. Since Canadian resources either Coastguard and MNR are spread so thin, the US is fairly strict about enforcement on their side. Not unfair but strict.

[fixer1]

As a Canadian I have travelled many places in the world, and I have always been aware of the laws that certain contries have that are different from my own. If I can not abide by those laws I simply will not go to that country. I used to go and travel through out the USA, but back in 1999 I was involved here in Canada with somethings that if I was in the USA I could have been charged with. Also I had been to Cuba several times and it was stamped right in my passport. So I did not travel to the USA anymore and would not even think of doing so especially now that they have the Patriot Act. I am aware of this and have seen others who were much like me that did cross over to visit relatives and were jailed and detained. So no, I would not travel to the USA any more. I like Europe much better and the Carbbean can easily satisfy my need for warm climates in winter time.

If I was to cross thwe border I would not get very far before I was arrested and charges for satellite offences and also under the Helms Burton act for having done business with Cuba. Hell, they would also use the Patriot act to have bail refused and could then wait as long as they pleased to charge me with anything. So knowing what I know, I would be crazy to travel there, even though after checking with the government, it has been said there are no outstanding issues present. My friend is serving 7 years in a Florida jail because he thought he was ok to go there as well. He got absolutely zero help from the Canadian government. Just because the USA has not formally laid any charges does not mean that they will not once your name is flagged at the border. Remember the zero tolerance rules of yesterday where complete transport trucks were seized and sold just for having a roach in the ashtry of the vehicle? This is all from a country we call our friend and have many trade issues with them right next door. Our government will do nothing but shrug its shoulders when it is really an easy thing to work out, at times as these. Then you know that when you are in a foreign country who may not have any ties to Canada trade wise, you know that you are really on your own. The way I look at it is, I know what I did and I knew what the ramifications were, so I just do not go there any more. People need to do the same, and when travelling to countries that you are not sure of the laws, you will need to do your home work first, before buying the ticket. reading from a book when you are sitting in the country is not too wise.

[cybercoma]

I should see if I can dig up the article about the guys from Windsor that were thrown in jail in Michigan. The Detroit River divides Detroit, Michigan and Windsor, Ontario. A group of boaters from Canada were on the river and were caught on the American side by the coast guard. The border is drawn down the middle of the river. They didn't have the proper paperwork on them and were thrown in prison in the United States, where it took our government almost a month and a half to take care of identifying them as Canadian citizens.

If memory serves these boneheads were nailed by Michigan Fish and Game and Coast guard. The same rules apply when I fish the Upper and Lower Niagara, you simply get both New york and Ontario fishing licenses, plus make certain your boat is both Canadain and US Coastguard compliant. Safety is also a big issue on both waterways for different reasons. The Niagara obviously for the currents and whirlpools (the Falls) and in the Detroit because of the nasty 8 ft. wakes created by lakers and salty's plying the relatively narrow channel. Since Canadian resources either Coastguard and MNR are spread so thin, the US is fairly strict about enforcement on their side. Not unfair but strict.

I don't think we're thinking of the same story. The guys I'm thinking about weren't fishing, they were just out cruising the river.

[Hicksey]

I think people should make themselves more aware when they travel of the dangers that exist outside their own borders. Canadians might be able to expect their country to bail them out of a jam at home, but shouldn't expect their nanny to bail them out when abroad. Its not anyone's fault but their own for getting into trouble. When I travel I try to cover all my bases to make sure there won't be any problems, why shouldn't everyone be expected to do the same?

[geoffrey]

As a Canadian I have travelled many places in the world, and I have always been aware of the laws that certain contries have that are different from my own. If I can not abide by those laws I simply will not go to that country. I used to go and travel through out the USA, but back in 1999 I was involved here in Canada with somethings that if I was in the USA I could have been charged with. Also I had been to Cuba several times and it was stamped right in my passport. So I did not travel to the USA anymore and would not even think of doing so especially now that they have the Patriot Act. I am aware of this and have seen others who were much like me that did cross over to visit relatives and were jailed and detained. So no, I would not travel to the USA any more. I like Europe much better and the Carbbean can easily satisfy my need for warm climates in winter time.

If I was to cross thwe border I would not get very far before I was arrested and charges for satellite offences and also under the Helms Burton act for having done business with Cuba. Hell, they would also use the Patriot act to have bail refused and could then wait as long as they pleased to charge me with anything. So knowing what I know, I would be crazy to travel there, even though after checking with the government, it has been said there are no outstanding issues present. My friend is serving 7 years in a Florida jail because he thought he was ok to go there as well. He got absolutely zero help from the Canadian government. Just because the USA has not formally laid any charges does not mean that they will not once your name is flagged at the border. Remember the zero tolerance rules of yesterday where complete transport trucks were seized and sold just for having a roach in the ashtry of the vehicle? This is all from a country we call our friend and have many trade issues with them right next door. Our government will do nothing but shrug its shoulders when it is really an easy thing to work out, at times as these. Then you know that when you are in a foreign country who may not have any ties to Canada trade wise, you know that you are really on your own. The way I look at it is, I know what I did and I knew what the ramifications were, so I just do not go there any more. People need to do the same, and when travelling to countries that you are not sure of the laws, you will need to do your home work first, before buying the ticket. reading from a book when you are sitting in the country is not too wise.

This sounds like alot of unneccessary paranoia. I've been Cuba and have it stamped on my passport, which I carry with me going into the States. I generally just use my licence at the border though, but flying I've used by Cuba stamped passport without so much as a care from them.

How would the Americans know that you did something in Canada that would be a crime in the states? Drug offences are the big deal to them, and if thats whats going on, then I really lack sympathy.

I hope semi-trucks are seized when found with roaches in the ash tray (if we are talking about the same thing), I don't know about you but truck drivers cruising around high isn't my idea of a great thing.

The big thing with the US, stay out of drug trouble and they won't care about ya.

[cybercoma]

This sounds like alot of unneccessary paranoia. I've been Cuba and have it stamped on my passport, which I carry with me going into the States. I generally just use my licence at the border though, but flying I've used by Cuba stamped passport without so much as a care from them.

How would the Americans know that you did something in Canada that would be a crime in the states? Drug offences are the big deal to them, and if thats whats going on, then I really lack sympathy.

I hope semi-trucks are seized when found with roaches in the ash tray (if we are talking about the same thing), I don't know about you but truck drivers cruising around high isn't my idea of a great thing.

The big thing with the US, stay out of drug trouble and they won't care about ya.

How do you know they were operating the vehicle high? They live in their trucks and could've been getting high while stopped. So you're going to take away their business, their livelihood and perhaps take away the income earning capabilities of an entire family, because of a couple roaches in the ashtray? Boo.

[Hicksey]

This sounds like alot of unneccessary paranoia. I've been Cuba and have it stamped on my passport, which I carry with me going into the States. I generally just use my licence at the border though, but flying I've used by Cuba stamped passport without so much as a care from them.

How would the Americans know that you did something in Canada that would be a crime in the states? Drug offences are the big deal to them, and if thats whats going on, then I really lack sympathy.

I hope semi-trucks are seized when found with roaches in the ash tray (if we are talking about the same thing), I don't know about you but truck drivers cruising around high isn't my idea of a great thing.

The big thing with the US, stay out of drug trouble and they won't care about ya.

How do you know they were operating the vehicle high? They live in their trucks and could've been getting high while stopped. So you're going to take away their business, their livelihood and perhaps take away the income earning capabilities of an entire family, because of a couple roaches in the ashtray? Boo.

Absolutely. Truck drivers know they are subject to US laws while in the US. If they choose to break the law, that's their fault. Drugs have no place in a truck.

I am truck driver and I believe this. Its not worth doing it if you can't do it legally.

[geoffrey]

How do you know they were operating the vehicle high? They live in their trucks and could've been getting high while stopped. So you're going to take away their business, their livelihood and perhaps take away the income earning capabilities of an entire family, because of a couple roaches in the ashtray? Boo.

Arguments like this are just ridiculous. What do you think the border guards would say if you had a half finished mickey on the front seat? I don't care if you only drank it while stopped. Your truck is your place of business and places of business should not have alcohol or drugs in them.

[Drea]

How do you know they were operating the vehicle high? They live in their trucks and could've been getting high while stopped. So you're going to take away their business, their livelihood and perhaps take away the income earning capabilities of an entire family, because of a couple roaches in the ashtray? Boo.

Arguments like this are just ridiculous. What do you think the border guards would say if you had a half finished mickey on the front seat? I don't care if you only drank it while stopped. Your truck is your place of business and places of business should not have alcohol or drugs in them.

If crossing into the USA and a mickey is found then the driver should be tested for alcohol levels. If a roach is found -- well I pity that poor s.o.b for forgetting to throw it out on the Canadian side.