Biggest Canadian Scandal

[Kincora]

Yes, another poll. Good fun they are.

Seeing as how this election was fought and decided on the Liberal sponsership scandal, it's time to put this question to you.

Which of these famous scandals ranks as the top Canadian political scandal of all time?

These scandals were picked off of this website:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdngover...t/scandals.html

You can read small blurbs about them there.

I also don't know very much about political history, but am keen to learn, so I'm sure I missed many newsworthy government debacles. Fell free to put me in my place and post them here.

[geoffrey]

Yes, another poll. Good fun they are.

Seeing as how this election was fought and decided on the Liberal sponsership scandal, it's time to put this question to you.

Which of these famous scandals ranks as the top Canadian political scandal of all time?

These scandals were picked off of this website:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdngover...t/scandals.html

You can read small blurbs about them there.

I also don't know very much about political history, but am keen to learn, so I'm sure I missed many newsworthy government debacles. Fell free to put me in my place and post them here.

I could tell they are from CBC when you listed Mulroney's entire cabinet as a scandal. What other news service in this country has no crediability?

Of course the left will argue Martin wasn't guilty by association. Well, Mulroney actually settled for cash out of his settlement for Ottawa trying to destroy him.

The Tuna scandal is considerable.

I still think HRDC, the Gun Registry and Sponsorship, all involving criminal fraud (well not offically the gun registry, but someone is making some kickbacks from that gaurnteed) by our "national party" are in combination the worse yet.

Especially because no one has gone to jail.

In the private sector, both Martin and Chretien would be in jail. The CEO and CFO should always go down with the ship in the case of fraud from a corporate governance perspective.

[Kincora]

Yes, another poll. Good fun they are.

Seeing as how this election was fought and decided on the Liberal sponsership scandal, it's time to put this question to you.

Which of these famous scandals ranks as the top Canadian political scandal of all time?

These scandals were picked off of this website:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdngover...t/scandals.html

You can read small blurbs about them there.

I also don't know very much about political history, but am keen to learn, so I'm sure I missed many newsworthy government debacles. Fell free to put me in my place and post them here.

I could tell they are from CBC when you listed Mulroney's entire cabinet as a scandal. What other news service in this country has no crediability?

Of course the left will argue Martin wasn't guilty by association. Well, Mulroney actually settled for cash out of his settlement for Ottawa trying to destroy him.

The Tuna scandal is considerable.

I still think HRDC, the Gun Registry and Sponsorship, all involving criminal fraud (well not offically the gun registry, but someone is making some kickbacks from that gaurnteed) by our "national party" are in combination the worse yet.

Especially because no one has gone to jail.

In the private sector, both Martin and Chretien would be in jail. The CEO and CFO should always go down with the ship in the case of fraud from a corporate governance perspective.

That's the problem isn't it? It's very hard to pin individual responsibility when it comes to criminal activity of organizations, be it corporate or governmental. We generally satisfy ourselves with the government being torpedoed, or the stocks of that indicted company taking a nosedive.

I got the scandals from CBC because it was the best link I found for the subject matter, but I didn't mean to post with any bias.

However, there are 6 Liberal scandals there to 4 Conservative, which would'nt seem to me as a very pro-Liberal thing to do right?

The gun registry, well, I can't agree with you there. It is a program that has specific aims, and until it is revealed otherwise, we can only argue the program on it's merits. ( costs / crime reduction, etc..)

For Mulroney's cabinet, it looks like a string of unfortunate revelations for Mulroney. I believe Mulroney ranks quite highly among Canada's past prime minsters in terms of idealism. He did what he hionestly thoguht was best for the country, just as Trudeau did in his time. Mulroney made some rather unfortunate decisions in appointing his cabinet and inner circle. ( Bouchard...)

I can't say I believe the same about Paul Martin, Jean Chretien, or Stephen Harper for that matter. He has some time to prove himself though.

Anyways, I don't know about the HRDC. Tell me about it.

[geoffrey]

Yes, another poll. Good fun they are.

Seeing as how this election was fought and decided on the Liberal sponsership scandal, it's time to put this question to you.

Which of these famous scandals ranks as the top Canadian political scandal of all time?

These scandals were picked off of this website:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdngover...t/scandals.html

You can read small blurbs about them there.

I also don't know very much about political history, but am keen to learn, so I'm sure I missed many newsworthy government debacles. Fell free to put me in my place and post them here.

I could tell they are from CBC when you listed Mulroney's entire cabinet as a scandal. What other news service in this country has no crediability?

Of course the left will argue Martin wasn't guilty by association. Well, Mulroney actually settled for cash out of his settlement for Ottawa trying to destroy him.

The Tuna scandal is considerable.

I still think HRDC, the Gun Registry and Sponsorship, all involving criminal fraud (well not offically the gun registry, but someone is making some kickbacks from that gaurnteed) by our "national party" are in combination the worse yet.

Especially because no one has gone to jail.

In the private sector, both Martin and Chretien would be in jail. The CEO and CFO should always go down with the ship in the case of fraud from a corporate governance perspective.

That's the problem isn't it? It's very hard to pin individual responsibility when it comes to criminal activity of organizations, be it corporate or governmental. We generally satisfy ourselves with the government being torpedoed, or the stocks of that indicted company taking a nosedive.

I got the scandals from CBC because it was the best link I found for the subject matter, but I didn't mean to post with any bias.

However, there are 6 Liberal scandals there to 4 Conservative, which would'nt seem to me as a very pro-Liberal thing to do right?

The gun registry, well, I can't agree with you there. It is a program that has specific aims, and until it is revealed otherwise, we can only argue the program on it's merits. ( costs / crime reduction, etc..)

For Mulroney's cabinet, it looks like a string of unfortunate revelations for Mulroney. I believe Mulroney ranks quite highly among Canada's past prime minsters in terms of idealism. He did what he hionestly thoguht was best for the country, just as Trudeau did in his time. Mulroney made some rather unfortunate decisions in appointing his cabinet and inner circle. ( Bouchard...)

I can't say I believe the same about Paul Martin, Jean Chretien, or Stephen Harper for that matter. He has some time to prove himself though.

Anyways, I don't know about the HRDC. Tell me about it.

HRDC created a program to make more jobs, or give grants to create jobs.

Heres some things about it:

37 projects were so screwed up that further investigations are to be made

15% of the projects were approved although the recipients had never submitted applications

Many applications lacked such stuff as: cash-flow forecasts; budgets; descriptions of activities

More than 50% of the projects had no analysis by the HRDC staff

More than 33% of the projects had the amount changed (usually upward), and usually without any justification

Most projects were not monitored by HRDC

79% of the projects reimbursed expenses without any supporting documentation such as invoices or payroll records

Expenses were paid that were clearly not allowed

When recipients were audited, many could not produce the supporting documentation for their claims

Agreements were so vaguely worded that objectionable expenses - gifts, bonuses, expensive travel, expensive meals - were not prohibited

A grant to a hotel in Jean Chretien's riding was announced before it was approved

Two trust funds were set up in violation of HRDC rules

http://libscam.godsandartists.com/index.php/HRDC_boondoggle

This project was in the 1-3 billion range, hence the billion dollar boondoogle.

[geoffrey]

Oh on your second point about how hard it is to charge people when an organization commits a crime.

Well we actually passed a law to do just this with biker gangs. A guilty by association type law. Which I think all the Liberal brass should be charged under for extortion and fraud. But hey, it won't happen.

[Kincora]

Yes, another poll. Good fun they are.

Seeing as how this election was fought and decided on the Liberal sponsership scandal, it's time to put this question to you.

Which of these famous scandals ranks as the top Canadian political scandal of all time?

These scandals were picked off of this website:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdngover...t/scandals.html

You can read small blurbs about them there.

I also don't know very much about political history, but am keen to learn, so I'm sure I missed many newsworthy government debacles. Fell free to put me in my place and post them here.

I could tell they are from CBC when you listed Mulroney's entire cabinet as a scandal. What other news service in this country has no crediability?

Of course the left will argue Martin wasn't guilty by association. Well, Mulroney actually settled for cash out of his settlement for Ottawa trying to destroy him.

The Tuna scandal is considerable.

I still think HRDC, the Gun Registry and Sponsorship, all involving criminal fraud (well not offically the gun registry, but someone is making some kickbacks from that gaurnteed) by our "national party" are in combination the worse yet.

Especially because no one has gone to jail.

In the private sector, both Martin and Chretien would be in jail. The CEO and CFO should always go down with the ship in the case of fraud from a corporate governance perspective.

That's the problem isn't it? It's very hard to pin individual responsibility when it comes to criminal activity of organizations, be it corporate or governmental. We generally satisfy ourselves with the government being torpedoed, or the stocks of that indicted company taking a nosedive.

I got the scandals from CBC because it was the best link I found for the subject matter, but I didn't mean to post with any bias.

However, there are 6 Liberal scandals there to 4 Conservative, which would'nt seem to me as a very pro-Liberal thing to do right?

The gun registry, well, I can't agree with you there. It is a program that has specific aims, and until it is revealed otherwise, we can only argue the program on it's merits. ( costs / crime reduction, etc..)

For Mulroney's cabinet, it looks like a string of unfortunate revelations for Mulroney. I believe Mulroney ranks quite highly among Canada's past prime minsters in terms of idealism. He did what he hionestly thoguht was best for the country, just as Trudeau did in his time. Mulroney made some rather unfortunate decisions in appointing his cabinet and inner circle. ( Bouchard...)

I can't say I believe the same about Paul Martin, Jean Chretien, or Stephen Harper for that matter. He has some time to prove himself though.

Anyways, I don't know about the HRDC. Tell me about it.

HRDC created a program to make more jobs, or give grants to create jobs.

Heres some things about it:

37 projects were so screwed up that further investigations are to be made

15% of the projects were approved although the recipients had never submitted applications

Many applications lacked such stuff as: cash-flow forecasts; budgets; descriptions of activities

More than 50% of the projects had no analysis by the HRDC staff

More than 33% of the projects had the amount changed (usually upward), and usually without any justification

Most projects were not monitored by HRDC

79% of the projects reimbursed expenses without any supporting documentation such as invoices or payroll records

Expenses were paid that were clearly not allowed

When recipients were audited, many could not produce the supporting documentation for their claims

Agreements were so vaguely worded that objectionable expenses - gifts, bonuses, expensive travel, expensive meals - were not prohibited

A grant to a hotel in Jean Chretien's riding was announced before it was approved

Two trust funds were set up in violation of HRDC rules

http://libscam.godsandartists.com/index.php/HRDC_boondoggle

This project was in the 1-3 billion range, hence the billion dollar boondoogle.

Ah, my mistake. I just didn't connect the acronym to the blurb.

That definately seems to be one of the more costly ones doesn't it? It not the most costly.

The tuna scandal is deplorable because it is blatantly disregarding the safety of our own citizens under threat of closure.

[newbie]

You forgot to mention Alberta king of the Western boondoggle King Ralph. http://users.rttinc.com/~asiniwachi/wm6.html

[Kincora]

Alot of those numbers seem a little far fetched...

I'd heard about Imperial Oil not paying taxes though.

Now, Geoffrey, the Liberals are not quite in the same bracket as the Hells Angels, and if you would indite them all by association, then it would extend alot further than that, and alot fo COnservatives would have to be indicted by association for various unseemly acts during Mulroney's time.

I'm not saying the Liberals are angels, far from it, but I am a firm believer that this kind of corruption comes hand in hand with politics, always has. The only difference now is that it is becoming more visible with the power of the media.