Harper talking policy, Martin talking his values?

[willy]

Today Harper continued to outline what he would like to do, given the chance.

He is not taking the 30000 ft promises of the first half but rather adding 1000 ft details.

Morning he talked about accountability and the changes to awarding contracts from government.

Afternoon, he talked about parts of the defence policy.

Details:

* The Conservative plan calls for a new rapid reaction army battalion composed of 650 regular force personnel at CFB Bagotville which would be air deployable out of the base. That a 50% personnel increase at the base. We also guarantee the long term future of the base by supporting the upgrading of Canada’s CF-18 fighters to meet air defence requirements.

* The Conservatives will also recruit an additional 1000 regular force personnel and 750 reserves, with accompanying equipment, to meet army requirements at CFB Valcartier, the training school at St. Jean, and CFB Montreal. Furthermore, a Conservative government will create two new territorial defence battalions (100 regular force and 400 reserve force personnel each) for enhanced emergency response in the areas of Québec City and Montréal.

You may like or not like the policy. But at least he is outlining the alternative. He will continue to put detail around the broad policy announced. I don't know if this is the winning strategy but it is much preferred way of campaigning.

I am sure the ad campaign will point out the problems the Liberals represent. It should. But the Leader is talking about ideas.

What will Martin continue to do? Talk about Harper. He has said many times we are going to move to policy. Where, when? We are well into the campaign and the Gun policy was the only thing that comes to mind and this is something he admits provinces can opt in or out. His child care plan is old and all he did was to promise to continue funding it. He has nothing. Attack old premiers, attack the Americans, defend our Liberal values. Something is starting to smell on the plane that doesn’t fly and the horse cart with a flat tire.

Rant out!

[justcrowing]

Today Harper continued to outline what he would like to do, given the chance.

He is not taking the 30000 ft promises of the first half but rather adding 1000 ft details.

Morning he talked about accountability and the changes to awarding contracts from government.

Afternoon, he talked about parts of the defence policy.

Details:

* The Conservative plan calls for a new rapid reaction army battalion composed of 650 regular force personnel at CFB Bagotville which would be air deployable out of the base.  That a 50% personnel increase at the base.  We also guarantee the long term future of the base by supporting the upgrading of Canada’s CF-18 fighters to meet air defence requirements.

* The Conservatives will also recruit an additional 1000 regular force personnel and 750 reserves, with accompanying equipment, to meet army requirements at CFB Valcartier, the training school at St. Jean, and CFB Montreal. Furthermore, a Conservative government will create two new territorial defence battalions (100 regular force and 400 reserve force personnel each) for enhanced emergency response in the areas of Québec City and Montréal.

You may like or not like the policy. But at least he is outlining the alternative. He will continue to put detail around the broad policy announced. I don't know if this is the winning strategy but it is much preferred way of campaigning.

I am sure the ad campaign will point out the problems the Liberals represent. It should. But the Leader is talking about ideas.

What will Martin continue to do? Talk about Harper. He has said many times we are going to move to policy. Where, when? We are well into the campaign and the Gun policy was the only thing that comes to mind and this is something he admits provinces can opt in or out. His child care plan is old and all he did was to promise to continue funding it. He has nothing. Attack old premiers, attack the Americans, defend our Liberal values. Something is starting to smell on the plane that doesn’t fly and the horse cart with a flat tire.

Rant out!

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Well said.

[shoop]

A politician with values allows those values to guide him in his decision making and policy pronouncements. So does anybody think Martin has a real set of values that guide him?

Of course he talks about values. It is the easiest lead into an attack. That Martin - attack, attack, attack.

Shows you what his *values* really are.

[newbie]

Morning he talked about accountability and the changes to awarding contracts from government.

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Speaking of accountability:

Conservative leader Stephen Harper claims he now wants to improve accountability in government but his public record reveals this is nothing more than political double-speak:

* Stephen Harper opposed amendments to strengthen the Lobbyist Registry (Bill C-15, Lobbyists Registration Amendment Act).

* He voted against the Ethics Bill which created an independent Ethics Commissioner (Bill C-4, Parliament of Canada Amendment Act [Ethics Commissioner and Senate Ethics Officer]).

* He opposed the political financing bill that put tight limits on corporate and union donations and strengthened donation disclosure rules (Bill C-24, Canada Elections Amendment Act [Political Financing]).

* He has opposed all efforts to put limits on the influence of third-party advertising during election campaigns, even fighting the issue at the Supreme Court as president of the National Citizens Coalition. Mr. Harper said he will repeal these rules if he becomes Prime Minister.

* Mr. Harper has opposed a recent government initiative to require third party groups that advertise during elections to reveal the identity of their donors.

* He has repeatedly refused to reveal who bank-rolled his 2002 campaign to become leader of the Canadian Alliance.

* He has refused to reveal exactly how much was paid to Ezra Levant in 2002 to get him to step aside from the Calgary Southwest nomination so he could run in a by-election.

* Mr. Harper has refused to make his deputy leader, Peter Mackay, reveal the identity of the single donor who paid off his $500,000 leadership debt.

* Mr. Harper appointed as a Defence Critic Gordon O’Connor, a man who has acted as a lobbyist for the defence industry for seven years.

* Today Mr. Harper pointed to the record of Brian Mulroney and suggested he will use Mr. Mulroney as his standard of ethics.

Mr. Harper’s spotty record on ethics contrasts with the reforms Prime Minister Paul Martin has brought in over the last 18 months.

http://liberal.ca/news_e.aspx?id=11298

[newbie]

double post

[The Honest Politician]

Morning he talked about accountability and the changes to awarding contracts from government.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Speaking of accountability:

Conservative leader Stephen Harper claims he now wants to improve accountability in government but his public record reveals this is nothing more than political double-speak:

* Stephen Harper opposed amendments to strengthen the Lobbyist Registry (Bill C-15, Lobbyists Registration Amendment Act).

* He voted against the Ethics Bill which created an independent Ethics Commissioner (Bill C-4, Parliament of Canada Amendment Act [Ethics Commissioner and Senate Ethics Officer]).

* He opposed the political financing bill that put tight limits on corporate and union donations and strengthened donation disclosure rules (Bill C-24, Canada Elections Amendment Act [Political Financing]).

* He has opposed all efforts to put limits on the influence of third-party advertising during election campaigns, even fighting the issue at the Supreme Court as president of the National Citizens Coalition. Mr. Harper said he will repeal these rules if he becomes Prime Minister.

* Mr. Harper has opposed a recent government initiative to require third party groups that advertise during elections to reveal the identity of their donors.

* He has repeatedly refused to reveal who bank-rolled his 2002 campaign to become leader of the Canadian Alliance.

* He has refused to reveal exactly how much was paid to Ezra Levant in 2002 to get him to step aside from the Calgary Southwest nomination so he could run in a by-election.

* Mr. Harper has refused to make his deputy leader, Peter Mackay, reveal the identity of the single donor who paid off his $500,000 leadership debt.

* Mr. Harper appointed as a Defence Critic Gordon O’Connor, a man who has acted as a lobbyist for the defence industry for seven years.

* Today Mr. Harper pointed to the record of Brian Mulroney and suggested he will use Mr. Mulroney as his standard of ethics.

Mr. Harper’s spotty record on ethics contrasts with the reforms Prime Minister Paul Martin has brought in over the last 18 months.

http://liberal.ca/news_e.aspx?id=11298

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

SSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

When you point out the obvious reasons not to trust him they get angry.

[shoop]

Hmmm, yet again not understanding.

The CPCs most recent campaign ads will contrast quite nicely with the list just posted.

Not getting angry, too happy with the way the campaign is going down to be worried about the dying attempts at the Martin government to survive.

SSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

When you point out the obvious reasons not to trust him they get angry.

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[The Honest Politician]

The CPC's most recent ad campaign makes me wonder who is running the "negative" campaign. Keep on coming. They thought the constant attacks on Bush would work too.

[shoop]

The Liberals proved in 97, 2000 and 2004 how valuable negative campaigns can be in Canada.

Besides, from the sounds of what you are saying you would think the Liberals are in the lead and don't have to change anything with their campaign. Bah!

The CPC's most recent ad campaign makes me wonder who is running the "negative" campaign. Keep on coming. They thought the constant attacks on Bush would work too.

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[willy]

Copying and pasting Liberal talking points off their website, does not forward this discussion.

Again all the Liberal's talk about is Conservatives.

They are too afraid to look in the mirror.

Here I can copy and paste off the Conservative website, does this name calling really accomplish anything.

Crime rates up under Liberals

OTTAWA – In his 1996 budget speech, politician Paul Martin said, “Why not decide together that ten years hence our streets will be the safest they can be – not because we have the largest number of prisons or police, but rather because we have faced squarely the sources of crime?” As Torontonians know, and as the numbers show, that was just another broken promise.

Homicide Rate

In 2004, the homicide rate in Canada was up 12%, with 622 homicides reported, compared to 549 in 2003.  (Statistics Canada, July 21, 2005)

52 people have been killed by firearms in Toronto in 2005 to date, compared to 27 in all of 2004.  (Globe and Mail, December 5, 2005)

Drug Crime Rate

Cannabis cultivation offences (e.g. marijuana grow-ops) have doubled in the past decade, from 3,400 incidents in 1994 to 8,000 in 2004 (Statistics Canada, July 21, 2005)

Cocaine incidents increased by 17% in 2004 to almost 17,000 incidents (Statistics Canada, July 21, 2005)

Theft Rate

Burglary / break and enter rates are higher in Canada than in the United States – roughly 908 per 100,000 in Canada to 741 per 100,000 in the U.S. in 2001 (“Crime Comparisons Between Canada and the United States,” by Marie Gannon, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, 2001.)

Motor vehicle theft rates are higher in Canada than in the United States – roughly 547 per 100,000 in 2001 in Canada versus 475 per 100,000 in the U.S. (“Crime Comparisons Between Canada and the United States,” by Marie Gannon, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, 2001.)

[shoop]

double post. oops

[shoop]

Ahhh Willy.

You have to remember HP didn't favour the Liberals until posters on this board *drove* him to that.

You aren't really accomplishing anything, except pointing out how sad and vacuous the Liberal Party of Canada is at this point in time.

Good work!

Copying and pasting Liberal talking points off their website, does not forward this discussion.

Again all the Liberal's talk about is Conservatives.

They are too afraid to look in the mirror.

Here I can copy and paste off the Conservative website, does this name calling really accomplish anything.

Centre for Justice Statistics, 2001.)

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[newbie]

Copying and pasting Liberal talking points off their website, does not forward this discussion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then tell that to kula who posted from the con site, re Paul Martin. Just trying to keep things balanced.

[shoop]

I think Willy accomplished that with his post.

Any of your balance ever go against the Liberals newbie?

that to kula who posted from the con site, re Paul Martin. Just trying to keep things balanced.

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[newbie]

Any of your balance ever go against the Liberals newbie?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Probably about the same of your balance against the Conservatives.

[shoop]

I am on the record opposing the more histrionic conservative media (the Mark Steyns, Ezra Levants, Anne Coulters and all of Fox News.)

Here is proof.

Raging against the right wing media...

Can you point to anything you have done on this board that could be pointed to as anti-Liberal? or anything that got *Liberal* posters on this site upset at you?

See, I make sure I am not in a glass house when tossing stones.

Probably about the same of your balance against the Conservatives.

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[newbie]

Can you point to anything you have done on this board that could be pointed to as anti-Liberal?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was against the way Martin handled the sponsorship "apology" and said so on this board. But I don't know what your point is. It should be painfully obvious that I am Liberal and make no apology for that. My posts speak for themselves. I posted off the Conservative site to make a point.

[shoop]

My point is that your point taking Willy to task for his point taking you to task.

Yee haw, no wonder Canadians hate politics.

The Liberals have added nothing constructive at all to this campaign. Ever stop to think that is why they are failing so badly. The Martin *brain trust* is made up of too many people with this us against them mentality.

ps, why not post a link to that rare occurence in which you took Martin to task. It is pretty uncommon for a Martinite to question the word of the master...

I was against the way Martin handled the sponsorship "apology" and said so on this board. But I don't know what your point is. It should be painfully obvious that I am Liberal and make no apology for that. My posts speak for themselves. I posted off the Conservative site to make a point.

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[newbie]

Posted Nov. 2, 2005:

"Thank God for opinions! My take on all this mess is much in line with FTA lawyer. I thought that Martin could have gone a little further than he did in parliament yesterday re apologizing on behalf of the party. He was, as just about eveyone has pointed out, the Finance Minister at the time. If he didn't know what was going on, he should have..."

[daniel]

It's appropriate that Harper won't talk values since he's throw away everything he's worked and stood for since 1987 only to adopt in the last six month some very NDPish policies.