2 Kinds of votes: Votes for or against the Gov

[justcrowing]

Hold on their cowboy. One second you're all:

Liberals swayed from the middle line to the left in order to obtain support from the far left, NDP & draw away votes from them.

And the next you're all, like:

So they brought down the debt but at what expense? Gutting social programs, raising taxes, cutting benefits from the disabled, corruption, mismanagement and the list is tenfold.

So which is it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Liberals speak with forked tongue - both!! It depends which way the wind blows and where the smell is coming from.

[plusgood]

While I understand the logic of the disagreement I still generally disagree. If I was told my vote would make the difference between my least favorite party and my second favorite party, I would choose my second favorite party over my first. But there are plenty of reasons to voting for a party besides the two most likely to win in your riding or nationally.

1. They get financial help for each vote received (since 2004 1.75 a year)

2. Ideals, why vote for a party that does not represent you the best?

3. Protest, voting against the status quo?

4. Building the popular support of a smaller party may influence the platform of larger parties? (I think we saw that with the influence of the Greens on Liberal and NDP environmental policies/Obviously NDP influence on the Liberals has some historic backing as well)

5. Voting for a smaller party may help to strengthen its support in the future. (Greens slowly growing? more money from votes... awareness.... slowing strengthening their party?)

6. hilighting the problems with our electoral system. If Canadians stopped voting for their favorite parties because they knew they wouldn't be presented in legislatures then there'd be no evidence that our electoral system distorts the numbers of seats/votes. (while there is an obvious debate around problems with our electoral system, that does not change the fact that this could represent a reason for voting for smaller parties - especially in conjunction with ideals/protest type reasons)

*** I think thinking of Canada as a two-party system, Liberals vs. Conservatives is highly simplistic. Our smaller parties are important. The NDP has shown that in this resent Parliament session. They changed the budget!

*** Also, as an NDP supporter my second choice is the Liberals and that has not been effected by the scandal. So if my vote is for the Liberals by voting the NDP that is fine with me. I am also not oppose to voting strategically; if my riding was close I would consider voting Liberal. So, the idea that a vote against the liberals if it isn't a vote for the conservatives does not necessarily hold up.

[Slavik44]

Except, of course, when voting strategically makes sense.

True and in other parts of my post I did recognize that some people may vote like that however the majority will not.

The only message that will be sent to Ottawa if the Liberals win will be go ahead and continue breaking the rules, go ahead and continue padding your own pockets and those of your close friends, go ahead and continue showing your complete arrogance to the Canadian tax payers.

I could only imagine the laughing the liberal cabinet would be doing at the Canadian voters after their win. "We stole, we got caught, and we got put back into power. Since we didn't have to repay the millions of dollars or become accountable for our crimes we may as well continue padding our pockets. Apparently we are above the law".

Do you think this message will help clean up our governing system? Are these really the people you want running our Country?

Yes imagine, but we are not living in fantasy world so lets stop imagining. As I said the primary goal of the Canadian voter is not to punish. You are still operatign on that flaw and your view is just that flawed, my goal is not to punish but to endorse, I choose not to endrose the Liberals or the conservatives it is of no value to replace tweedle dum with tweedle dee, or dumb with dumber, or bonnie with clyde. My goal and the goal for the majority of Canadians is to endorse.

With only 2 parties which can realistically form the government, it is a fact that those who wish to change the government must vote Conservative.

The message I want to send... not just to the Liberals but to all parties... is this: Canada is a great democratic country run by the people who elect leaders to follow our mandates. When you forget who you work for, and when you forget to follow our criminal codes, then get out!"

If we truly want to clean up Parliament, this Liberal party must be forced to take a back seat.

Yes, you do understand. For those whose primary goal is change in the governing party they should vote for the CPC. For the majority of Canadians whose goal is to endorse or support they should vote based on their beliefs.

-------------------------------------------------

The main point of this discussion is how does one use their vote to influence change. Those who are interested in changing the governing party, changing how politicians treat the population, changing the corruption in politics, or changing other political calamities should understand a vote for any other party other then Conservatives will result in a Liberal government. This will equal no change.

If you understand this and this is your voting desire... follow the party platforms to make your vote and feel good about further scandals.

Now you are lieing to yourself you said:

You are exactly right! People think they are making prudent choices and voting without understanding that they are really just voting for the Liberals. We could learn from Quebec (and that's scary)

Now after I have proven that conept to be faulty you change your arguement. Stop lieing to yourself, to me, and to members of this board. The truth is this was a major attack on anyone who wished to vote for a minor party and now you have changed it into discourse for those interested in change. I have no arguement with that...If your PRIMARY goal is change vote conservative. But it is un-wise to say that voting along your beliefs and values is not prudent.

As for NDP, well if you want a Marxist government, there is a price to pay. What they did to Ontario and B.C. provincially, no way would I want that for Canada. Sure you may get to grow and smoke your marijuana, collect a big welfare check, be taxed to the max, but at what expense? When I see Layton and his Olivia, I see what is said in an ad on TV "hands in your pocket". Thanks but no thanks.

Yes if the NDP was hitting 30% in the polls I may start to put a higher emphasis on other factors. As no party represents 100% of my beliefs of views, as a party gains in popularity thsoe differences could affect the out come of my vote. That being said by voting NDP I know they will keep certain issues in the spotlight that I agree with and where I disagree with them I realise their impact will not be major. It would also be unfair to lable them as Marxist there are many major differences between a party of social democrats and those to the right of them and Marxism.

will give the Conservatives my vote and a chance to govern hopefully with a small majority [to keep them on their toes] in order to give them a chance to implement their policies. A term is not the end of the earth so given that, they have my vote as we need change.

If change is your primary goal by all means do so, if change is your secondary goal but the conservatives align with your values then hell you have a match made in heaven.

[Guest eureka]

One could vote Conservative to bring about a change in government. Then, a few months down thee road, there would be further change in policy as the Conservatives discovered that there was no money to pay for their first change. Or as they returned to their true form and Reform base.

[JOVIAC]

As for NDP, well if you want a  Marxist government, there is a price to pay.   What they did to Ontario and B.C. provincially, no way would I want that for Canada.  Sure you may get to grow and smoke your marijuana, collect a big welfare check, be taxed to the max,  but at what expense?  When I see Layton and his Olivia, I see what is said in an ad on TV "hands in your pocket".   Thanks but no thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

NDP = HANDS IN YOUR POCKETS! The proof is in BC and Ontario. It's like they have never taken an economics course in their lives. Sure it would be great to be able to hand our social programs to everyone with their hands out. But this comes with a price which must be understood. Does this come from taxpayers, or businesses or both? We are already taxed to the nose with disposable income squeezed tighter then ever due to real & actual inflation. Sure Governments find nice ways to deliver padded versions of inflation to make everyone feel cosy and warm so they will keep spending and buying - mostly on credit, and to keep the housing bubble from popping. But the truth is dwindling disposable income hurts low income individuals more then anyone else. So let just increase taxes on businesses. Sounds like a great idea... but big business are not stuck here in Canada. They are very profit driven. So they pick up headquarters and move to tax havens - and that's if we are lucky. Others pick up and move all together. Yikes... now we have to deal with unemployment. Just ask all the Ford employees how they feel right now. Oh, but you are in Vancouver so it doesn't matter. You just want cheaper cars and if Ford can give it too you by shutting down factories in Ontario that's ok with you. But wait a minute. Hollywood isn't making as many movies in Vancouver. They also don't want increased fees - especially now that the the Canadian dollar is getting much more expensive to the green back. Without any extra tax, Hollywood - well all American business for that matter - has to pay an extra penalty already due to the exchange rate. Looks like jobs will be lost their too, not to say profits to all businesses that reaped the rewards from Hollywood's spending practices. But here is the biggest catch of all. When business cut jobs, which jobs go first? The bottom up of course. That low income individual who you where trying to help by increasing corporate taxes is now unemployed and needs an even bigger handout. This is not fiction... it is reality.

I agree, thanks but no thanks

[mowich]

this is a sad commentary.  You CPC'rs are going to be sorely disappointed.  The people here in Canada are a little smarter than that to be sure.  How about voting for the party that best represents your ideals, and not voting based on the mistaken belief that someone needs to be punished.  The CPC has some awfully backwards social policy and I can tell you that they'll never get control until they temper the radicals.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Voting for the Conservative party best represents my ideals. Negative it may be but the liberal party does need to be taught a lesson just as the Mulroney Conservatives needed one. However are things to change if we don't stand up as people and say ENOUGH. Sad to say but true, a vote for anyone other than a Conservative candidate is a vote for the liberals. Sad to say because I also happen to like the Green Party platform and would in other circumstances give my vote to them as I think they deserve a voice government.