More On Lawyers

[PolyNewbie]

(1) Xmas 2001: We had a family will split between my sister and I. We agreed that it would be pathetically low for her to screw me out of my half.

(2) This was written up by my sister, Andrea Plumb of McCarthy Tetrault in London Ontario. Although my mother insisted on it being entirely written in her name, she promised that I would receive half acknowledging that my mother was abusive and a liar.

(3) She told me that if my father ever found out about what they were doing I would not receive a nickle of the will.

(4) She told me that if I went to the law society to complain she would screw me in ways that I cannot even imagine. I claimed that this was blackmail and she corrected me and said that in fact it was extortion. She laughed when I said I would go to the police.

(5) Xmas day 2002. She announces that she had changed her mind that that she was taking all of the will. When I asked her why she explained that she was under no legal obligation to tell me anything.

(6) Iasked her if it was because I have inferiour genetics and she responded that that was part of it. I asked her what the rest of the reason was and she said she did not have time to bother explaining. I asked her if it was because she had more she therefore deserved more ? She said that was part of it. She also said that her athsma caused by Mom and dads smoking was also part of it. She had athsma before she made the promise and when the will was in my name and when I agreed to split it with her. She also said "Don't you know that I have been out to screw you my entire life ?

(7) A witness to this activity came up and gave me his business card saying he had never heard anything like this in his life. My sister prompty tore the card from my hand, looked at it and laughed saying "He can't do anything". I later contacted this person after forcibly taking the card back but obviously her and her gang of thugs got to him first. He declined co operation.

(8) I stated that I no longer wished to have anything to do with this family.

(9) I reported said incidence to the law society and talked with them for about four hours. They recorded me.

(10) They contacted the noble, distinguished and honorable member and she stated that the contract never existed and that she never threatened me. I received paper from the law society.

(11) I suggested to the law society that they contact the other witness signators. They did not have the budget for this and because of a supreme coyrt ruling regarding siblings of lawyers they could not do anything.

As a side note further the will was entirely written in my name with both parents acknowledging that they were abusive. I agreed to split it with her at Xmas 2001 at her home and at her and her mothers request.

That folks is how the supreme court of Canada thinks lawyers should be allowed to operate. They have self governance. They are all responsible.

[crazymf]

If it isn't in writing, it didn't happen.

Words to live by, go get a job.

[PolyNewbie]

If it isn't in writing, it didn't happen.

Words to live by, go get a job.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have a job. Are you saying I am crazy because I say this happened ?

Well then things like this can just keep right on happening then can't they ?

Do you think that lawyers are noble, distinguished, honorable and above the law or are you just looking for a reason to shoot your mouth off.

People like you are exactly what my sister is counting on and thats why she laughs when I say I can do something about this.

You say I'm crazy - fine then its a compliment. You know nothing about how Canadian power really operates.

[BHS]

If it isn't in writing, it didn't happen.

Words to live by, go get a job.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have a job. Are you saying I am crazy because I say this happened ?

Well then things like this can just keep right on happening then can't they ?

Do you think that lawyers are noble, distinguished, honorable and above the law or are you just looking for a reason to shoot your mouth off.

People like you are exactly what my sister is counting on and thats why she laughs when I say I can do something about this.

You say I'm crazy - fine then its a compliment. You know nothing about how Canadian power really operates.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I feel sympathy for you, friend. You've learned an important lesson in a very hard way. Unfortunately, without something in writing, you're screwed. Only the courts take a petitioner at his word alone - when hearing Native cases they are sometimes willing to take oral history in as evidence, but otherwise it's just a he said/she said situation. Paper carries a lot of weight in law. My (non-lawyerly) advice is to demand your own copy of everything that pertains to you legally.

[PolyNewbie]

I feel sympathy for you, friend. You've learned an important lesson in a very hard way. Unfortunately, without something in writing, you're screwed. Only the courts take a petitioner at his word alone - when hearing Native cases they are sometimes willing to take oral history in as evidence, but otherwise it's just a he said/she said situation. Paper carries a lot of weight in law. My (non-lawyerly) advice is to demand your own copy of everything that pertains to you legally.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have witnesses but the Supreme Court of Canada lets power behave this way as a matter of convenience. There is nothing I can do but inform people how power operates in this country. All lawyers are responsible when their self governing body permits this to happen.

The only thing that we can do (before it happens to you) is to stop electing these weasels and take our justice system back.

[crazymf]

Ok, sorry about the remark, but it's true, if it's not in writing, it becomes heresay.

Furthermore, my statement precludes all of your rhetoric about the justice system.

[PolyNewbie]

Ok, sorry about the remark, but it's true, if it's not in writing, it becomes heresay.

Furthermore, my statement precludes all of your rhetoric about the justice system.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know - the point is that even if I had writing the supreme court of Canada allows this !!!!!!! I am just a speck to them - nothing more. All that matters to them is the well being and financial security of teir members.

[crazymf]

That's frankly absurd. If a contract was in writing, it would be a contract in writing. You seem to want to nullify a written contract with heresay and have the entire Canadian justice system go your way.

Ummmm.......

[PolyNewbie]

That's frankly absurd. If a contract was in writing, it would be a contract in writing. You seem to want to nullify a written contract with heresay and have the entire Canadian justice system go your way.

Ummmm.......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

She destroyed the contract but the signatores are still around. The contract proves what she did. She denies the contract existed to the law society and has since destroyed it. The law society will not contact the witness signators.

[Riverwind]

She destroyed the contract but the signatores are still around. The contract proves what she did. She denies the contract existed to the law society and has since destroyed it. The law society will not contact the witness signators.

I always keep my own copy of important contract for exactly that reason.

[PolyNewbie]

She destroyed the contract but the signatores are still around. The contract proves what she did. She denies the contract existed to the law society and has since destroyed it. The law society will not contact the witness signators.

I always keep my own copy of important contract for exactly that reason.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

She is my sister and I was in a state of shock while it was happening. I was a guest at her house at Xmas. The contract didn't even have my name on it.

[PocketRocket]

There an old joke about the difference between a successful criminal, and an unsuccessful one.

The unsuccessful criminal is behind bars.

The successful one is a lawyer.

When you consider that a very large percentage of high-ranking politicians are laywers, this explains a lot.

(With apologies to FTA LAWYER)

[PolyNewbie]

There an old joke about the difference between a successful criminal, and an unsuccessful one.

The unsuccessful criminal is behind bars.

The successful one is a lawyer. 

When you consider that a very large percentage of high-ranking politicians are laywers, this explains a lot. 

(With apologies to FTA LAWYER)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

FTA Lawyer is part of a self governing profession. The only people that can do something about the level of corruption in Canada is other lawyers. You do not owe FTA lawyer an apology.

He is fully aware that many of his colleagues are corrupt and he knows we can't do anything and he choses to do nothing.

He is part of the same group - its as if he was walking down the road with a Crips jacket on and watching one of his fellow gang members thump someone out, knowing full well they get away with it because all the other gang members are standing there ready to stop anyone from doing anything about it.

[RB]

There an old joke about the difference between a successful criminal, and an unsuccessful one.

The unsuccessful criminal is behind bars.

The successful one is a lawyer. 

When you consider that a very large percentage of high-ranking politicians are laywers, this explains a lot. 

(With apologies to FTA LAWYER)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

FTA Lawyer is part of a self governing profession. The only people that can do something about the level of corruption in Canada is other lawyers. You do not owe FTA lawyer an apology.

He is fully aware that many of his colleagues are corrupt and he knows we can't do anything and he choses to do nothing.

He is part of the same group - its as if he was walking down the road with a Crips jacket on and watching one of his fellow gang members thump someone out, knowing full well they get away with it because all the other gang members are standing there ready to stop anyone from doing anything about it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know that this is a place to bash professions or professionals - if you would like to be represented by a lawyer - calm down - you can be hysterical only once

[PolyNewbie]

The law profession has a remarkable ability to make responsibility dissapear when it applies to them.

Its not their fault - its the law society. In which case no one can be blamed for anything.

Do you think these guys are above criticism or do you think that the legal profession and its activities have nothing to do with politics ?

[RB]

Do you think these guys are above criticism or do you think that the legal profession and its activities have nothing to do with politics ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have taken some of your attacks from your various post and I don't believe it fits a lawyer's profile

-gang of thugs

-manipulative weasels

-…what these people get away with and how it is tolerated

-above the law

-self governing body

-self governing profession

-gang members

Lawyers can advocate on your behalf or advise you and I am sure they are interested in what you have to say, currently they won't benefit from much

[PolyNewbie]

Do you think these guys are above criticism or do you think that the legal profession and its activities have nothing to do with politics ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have taken some of your attacks from your various post and I don't believe it fits a lawyer's profile

-gang of thugs

-manipulative weasels

-…what these people get away with and how it is tolerated

-above the law

-self governing body

-self governing profession

-gang members

Lawyers can advocate on your behalf or advise you and I am sure they are interested in what you have to say, currently they won't benefit from much

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well first of all they are most certainly a self governing body or self governing profession.

If you read the Globe & Mail you will recall a few months back where a bunch of them were caugth money laundering and the amounts were under 10,000 and therefore were not required to be reported to the law society. The law societies response was to lower the amount of cash received that they were to report.

When a lawyer is suspected of committing a crime the case is refered to the law society and the law society does not as a matter of principle report suspected crimes back to the police. To be clear: If the law society of upper canada suspects that a lawyer is committing a crime they do not ever contact the police.

If you want to report a lawyer to the police you must get another lawyer to go along with you. If the lawyer bites and the suspected lawyer is not convicted then law suits can be brought against the complaining lawyer. So that never happens.

So in a sense they do behave like a gang and they are most certainly above the law.

Sure lawyers go to jail - things like cocain possession and drunk driving land them in jail but only when they are caught red handed by the police.

There was also a judge a while back that was convicted of child pornography. How much jail time do you think he served ?

They are certainly manipulative weasels - not all of them only some of them but all of them assure that the some of them do not face the same legal consequences as you and I. Lawyers regualrly lie to the law society.

Try and imagine yourself walking through a city in the middle of night where the population is 88,000 people yet there are only 8 police officers. The rest of us "specks" require about 1 police officer for every 1000 people or so but if you are noble, distinguished and honorable member of the law society of upper canada you are much less likely to lie or cheat (due to your inate honorability and nobility) and therefore do not require the same gegree of policing.

So I think we are all being manipulated by them and therefore togather they are acting like weasels.

Consider this: A general practioner has about the same education as a lawyer. Consider that a GP is responsible for life and can be required to work all hours of the night. Consider that lawyers that earn 500/hr, 800/ hr are not uncommon. The only way for any other similarly educated professional to earn that kind of money would be to hang up their stethiscope or whatever and go into prostitution.

These 500/ hr & 800/hr lawyers do not work on contingency unless they are in the USA. Up here you and I will never have access to their services. Do you really beleive that someone with 3 more years of school than most deserve to make 10 - 20 times the amount of the average professional in other disciplines ? Whats up with that ?

Did you know that some personal injuryu cases take up to 20 years to process - the opposing council does everything possible to make you go broke or give up on delays. They do things like park semis full of irrelevant paper in front of your lawyers office so that you go broke while your lawyer sifts through all kinds of irrelevant paper work. (among many other similar weasel like tricks that are not actually against the law)I know its hard to believe because its such a closed society that few people know what happens in Canadian courts. Consider all the publication bans that occur - isn't this like a gang of thugs dragging your rights into a dark corner and thumping the crap out of them ?

When people are finally awarded what is owed they are ordered by judges to stay quite about the antics that were going on to prevent them from even getting their day in court. They eventually do but sometimes 10 - 20 years after the inital case was brought forward.

In the USA plently of lawyers make that kind of money and in many cases fight for the rights of ordinary people. John Kerries running mate and Erin Brockovitch are two.

Suppose your civil rights in Canada are violated , WHO DO YA CALL ??

[crazymf]

......no paranoia there, nosireee.....

[PolyNewbie]

nope just an awareness & desire for change.

[FTA Lawyer]

PolyNewbie,

Perhaps things are different in Ontario...

I confirm that lawyers are self-regulated, but otherwise, let me dispel a number of the criticisms you are making, at least as far as I can say for the situation in Alberta.

If you want to know if lawyers ever get reported to the police by the Law Society of Alberta, you can ask one Peter Petracek...his address is currently the Bowden Federal Penetentiary.

Oh, and the people he defrauded...yeah, I'm still paying for that via my annual levy into the Law Society Assurance Fund. Keep in mind he stole the money a decade or two before I even got called to the bar.

Hardly a "gang of thugs" that guarantees it will pay back individuals who's money is mishandled by one of it's members...at the very least it's better than the Hell's Angels' return policy on bad crack.

And the Law Society of Alberta hardly sits on its thumbs when complaints roll in...take a look at the following link for a list of suspensions and disbarments for the years 2004 and 2005.

Law Society of Alberta

You don't need a lawyer to report a lawyer to the police, and no one can be successfully sued for making a police report unless it is false and malicious.

I went to university for 8 years and then a year of articling before being called to the bar. My current hourly rate is $150.00 for private retainers and the notional hourly rate for Legal Aid matters (which is about half of my practice) is $80.00.

My principal who I articled to is a Queen's Counsel with 25 years at the bar and his hourly rate on most of his work is $275.00.

Most oil-rig workers with 6 months of on the job training make more money than me, let alone a GP.

Out of a lawyer's hourly rate he or she pays for his office expenses, assistant's salary, subscriptions to case research services etc. etc. Running a law practice is not cheap.

There are entire firms of lawyers in Alberta that do almost exclusively contingency fee practices for personal injury matters. Most personal injury files will be resolved in under 3 years...unless there are unresolved issues regarding the nature and extent of the plaintiff's injuries. And even then, there is a whole industry of economists who do "structured settlements" so that law suits can resolve without waiting around to see if the plaintiff is going to get better or not.

Suppose your civil rights in Canada are violated , WHO DO YA CALL ??

If you are in Alberta, call me...

Many of my cases involve applications to the courts for relief under the Charter where an individual's rights have been breached. A number of my current files of this type involve applications for prisioners who have been unlawfully treated while in custody.

Literally just on Monday of this week I appeared in court pro bono (that's for free in case you didn't know) for a guy who was being wrongfully held in custody on a traffic warrant...and I got him released. In all probability I will never see a single cent for this service, but it was the right thing to do to prevent an ongoing injustice.

In your neck of the woods try Clayton Ruby...one of Canada's most famous lawyers. My understanding is that he still handles cases for people who can't pay, even though he can command top dollar for his services.

There are thousands of others all across Canada who's names will nver be famous who will do the same.

You probably won't ever believe what I say PolyNewbie, but my clients know better.

FTA

P.S. No offence Pocket Rocket...I can take a well placed joke anytime.

[Guest eureka]

I will support your defense of lawyers, FTA, as one who has had a lot of dealings with lawyers over many years. My only complaint is the somewhat incestuous nature of the structure.

Regarding the will that seems to be the complaint, there would seem to be grounds for an action if there are indeed witnesses. The problem with action on estates is, I think, that the standards of proof required for a challenge are about as high as for a criminal trial. Equity or fairness does not have the place it should. I have recently had cause to study the Estates Act and to consider precedents on Undue Influence and Suspicious Circumstance.

I have a couple of books of lawyer jokes but I will spare you.

[PolyNewbie]

I'm making a point about this profession. My problem has been ironed out although the law profession doesn't mind lawyers acting this way.

The Supreme Court of this country seems to fully endorse it.

The Supreme Court needed permission from the Libs on taking siblings rights away and this was just out of convenience.

I have long since given up on finding a lawyer. Even Ruby can't take on McCarthy Tetrault.

[PocketRocket]

P.S. No offence Pocket Rocket...I can take a well placed joke anytime.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good to hear, because that seems to be what this thread is evolving into

[PolyNewbie]

FTA,

You may be one of the good guys, there are plenty of those too but if you look down your list supplied by your link you see that many cases of outright fraud are listed. These are similar to the ones at the Law Society of Upper Canada. (I'm in Toronto) You can call me and you can easily find out who I am but I wonder what you could say.

My point is that the only punishement was the right to charge people rediculous fees was taken away - no criminal convictions listed. Thats when the law society bothers to do something - ie easy cases.

Physicians and other equally educated professions who take on a far greater degree of responsibility, work nights and in dangerous situations (think SARS and any other infectious disease) and deal with life & death never have the right to charge what lawyers charged in the first place. Its lawyers that insist they are noble & distinguished and they are definetly above the law.

If any one of us non lawyers pulled stunts like that we would wind up with criminal records and lose our much lower paying jobs permanently. In addition to that the right to travel to the USA & many other places + be restricted from ever finding responsible work.

Even a city with 88000 people & only 8 cops may have some in jail, but I still wouldn't want to walk around at night in one. Certainly the cops in this city would have no resources to chase down organized crime or complex murder cases.

[crazymf]

P.S. No offence Pocket Rocket...I can take a well placed joke anytime.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good to hear, because that seems to be what this thread is evolving into

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep.....

What's the difference between God and an attorney?

God doesn't think he's an attorney.