BQ Flyer Implicates Liberals

[August1991]

The BQ has printed a flyer for distribution in its ridings which shows photos of Martin, Lucienne Robillard, Stephane Dion and Denis Coderre implying that they received sponsorship money. (Lapierre is absent but the flyer only notes those who appeared before Gomery.)

In fact, the flyer usefully details what sponsorship money was paid to which firms and then how much each firm then contributed to the federal Liberal Party.

BQ Flyer

The document has enraged Quebec Liberal MPs, an insider said, for its provocative commentary on the sponsorship scandal and because it was sent by the Bloc to Quebec residents using taxpayers' money.

G & M

« On peut faire de la politique, on peut se battre pour les idées, mais de salir des réputations et porter atteinte à mon intégrité, c'est assez », affirme M. Coderre, qui ajoute que ce bulletin du Bloc a été payé à même l'argent des contribuables, qu'il a été envoyé dans tous les foyers et que quand les gens vont lire cela, ils se feront une idée préconçue¸ d'où l'atteinte à sa réputation.

M. Coderre a donc mandaté ses procureurs de poursuivre le Bloc québécois, le chef du Bloc Gilles Duceppe et tous les députés du Bloc.

R-C

[geoffrey]

The BQ has printed a flyer for distribution in its ridings which shows photos of Martin, Lucienne Robillard, Stephane Dion and Denis Coderre implying that they received sponsorship money.  (Lapierre is absent but the flyer only notes those who appeared before Gomery.)

In fact, the flyer usefully details what sponsorship money was paid to which firms and then how much each firm then contributed to the federal Liberal Party.

BQ Flyer

The document has enraged Quebec Liberal MPs, an insider said, for its provocative commentary on the sponsorship scandal and because it was sent by the Bloc to Quebec residents using taxpayers' money.

G & M

« On peut faire de la politique, on peut se battre pour les idées, mais de salir des réputations et porter atteinte à mon intégrité, c'est assez », affirme M. Coderre, qui ajoute que ce bulletin du Bloc a été payé à même l'argent des contribuables, qu'il a été envoyé dans tous les foyers et que quand les gens vont lire cela, ils se feront une idée préconçue¸ d'où l'atteinte à sa réputation.

M. Coderre a donc mandaté ses procureurs de poursuivre le Bloc québécois, le chef du Bloc Gilles Duceppe et tous les députés du Bloc.

R-C

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Coderre won't actually follow through and sue. He can't, its way to risky for him the Liberals. If he did, the BQ defended themselves on the premise that the flyer is true, the Liberals would be very damaged by the publicity, even if the flyer proves false (which it wouldn't I'd wager).

It's good to see that Quebecers also believe that Martin had his hand in the piggybank.

[tml12]

The BQ has printed a flyer for distribution in its ridings which shows photos of Martin, Lucienne Robillard, Stephane Dion and Denis Coderre implying that they received sponsorship money.  (Lapierre is absent but the flyer only notes those who appeared before Gomery.)

In fact, the flyer usefully details what sponsorship money was paid to which firms and then how much each firm then contributed to the federal Liberal Party.

BQ Flyer

The document has enraged Quebec Liberal MPs, an insider said, for its provocative commentary on the sponsorship scandal and because it was sent by the Bloc to Quebec residents using taxpayers' money.

G & M

« On peut faire de la politique, on peut se battre pour les idées, mais de salir des réputations et porter atteinte à mon intégrité, c'est assez », affirme M. Coderre, qui ajoute que ce bulletin du Bloc a été payé à même l'argent des contribuables, qu'il a été envoyé dans tous les foyers et que quand les gens vont lire cela, ils se feront une idée préconçue¸ d'où l'atteinte à sa réputation.

M. Coderre a donc mandaté ses procureurs de poursuivre le Bloc québécois, le chef du Bloc Gilles Duceppe et tous les députés du Bloc.

R-C

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Coderre won't actually follow through and sue. He can't, its way to risky for him the Liberals. If he did, the BQ defended themselves on the premise that the flyer is true, the Liberals would be very damaged by the publicity, even if the flyer proves false (which it wouldn't I'd wager).

It's good to see that Quebecers also believe that Martin had his hand in the piggybank.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed.

I don't think legally or in the next election the Bloc has to really worry about the Liberals.

[Riverwind]

It's good to see that Quebecers also believe that Martin had his hand in the piggybank.

Why is it good to see that people believe the lies of the opposition parties? There is no evidence impicating Martin in the scandal no matter how much the CPC and the BQ whine.

[geoffrey]

It's good to see that Quebecers also believe that Martin had his hand in the piggybank.

Why is it good to see that people believe the lies of the opposition parties? There is no evidence impicating Martin in the scandal no matter how much the CPC and the BQ whine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sparhawk you know that's completely ridiculous. Martin was Finance Minister, making him responsible for the Finances of the government. If such a scandal occured in the private sector, the company's CFO would surely be found guility of fraud.

Ignorance of what was happening is not an excuse. If he didn't know, then its even worse, because then we all know he wasn't doing his job.

[Riverwind]

Sparhawk you know that's completely ridiculous. Martin was Finance Minister, making him responsible for the Finances of the government. If such a scandal occured in the private sector, the company's CFO would surely be found guility of fraud.

That line of thinking is absurd. The budget of the government is 200 billion/year - the sponsership program was worth maybe 300 million over 5 years (60 million/year or about 0.03% of the federal budget). No executive in the private sector would be expected have detailed knowledge of how every cent is spent in the organization. Futhermore, Martin was not responsible for spending the money: that job belonged to Gagliano.

The entire sponsership scandal is equivalent to about $12/year for someone with an annual income of $40000.

Ignorance of what was happening is not an excuse. If he didn't know, then its even worse, because then we all know he wasn't doing his job.

It is the job of the auditor general to find problems like this. She found problems, Martin acted on her recommendations so he did his job. What is your point? Are you suggesting that Martin should be doing the job of the auditor general as well as doing the job of finance minister?

[I Miss Trudeau]

Martin was Finance Minister, making him responsible for the Finances of the government.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not exactly. The ministers of the individual departments are far more responsible for what goes on in their department than the Finance Minister.

Consider:

The CFO of a corporation recieves a request from a plant manager for office supplies. The plant manager gets the supplies, but instead of using them at the office, takes them home so he/she can save a few bucks on schools supplies for his/her children.

Is the CFO responsible? Will he/she be charged with fraud?

[August1991]

Both Sparhawk and Miss Trudeau,

Your argument is tantamount to suggesting that since I only spent $12 on heroin last year, such a small percentage of my income, then the judge should find me innocent.

Martin was senior minister from Quebec, very much in the know of party activities since he was organizing to become party leader. It is absurd to suggest that Martin was not aware of $5 million being funneled back to the Liberal Party from firms receiving lucrative government contracts.

The fact is that many Canadian voters have chosen to ignore these obvious facts, or to rationalize them some other way and still vote for the Liberals. Such is the state of democracy in Canada.

[Riverwind]

Martin was senior minister from Quebec, very much in the know of party activities since he was organizing to become party leader.

Pure hearsay that has no basis in fact - the fund raising activities of the parties and the polticians has been kept seperate since the 1940s. If you want to make the assertion that Martin was personally involved in all fund raising then you need to offer more proof than the facile assertion that 'he is a senior Liberal so he had to be involved'. Such statements are nothing more than partisan rhetoric and should not be taken seriously.

It is absurd to suggest that Martin was not aware of $5 million being funneled back to the Liberal Party from firms receiving lucrative government contracts.

These contributions were perfectly legitiment corporate contributions at the time. The only thing that made them improper is the fact that people making the contributions claimed that they were deliberate kickbacks connected to contracts received from the federal gov't. The testimony at Gomery about these 'kickbacks' came mainly of ad executives trying to save their own skins which means they had a motive to exaggerate the connection between their donations and the contracts.

In short, Martin may have know about the contributions but still be unaware that there was such a direct connection between the contracts and the contributions.

The fact is that many Canadian voters have chosen to ignore these obvious facts, or to rationalize them some other way and still vote for the Liberals.  Such is the state of democracy in Canada.

I am sorry, the only real problem in Canada democracy stems from the self-absorbed Quebec voter who insists on voting for an obstructist party like the BQ. If Quebequers have a problem with the Liberals there is an alternative national party with a leader that speaks excellent French and wishes to reduce the role of the federal government in Canada - something that should appeal to Quebequers sensitivities. Unfortunately, speaking French isn't not good enough for Quebequers, you have to be a pure lain Quebequois before Quebquers will consider voting for you. Such is the state of democracy in Canada.

[Canuck E Stan]

In short, Martin may have know about the contributions

Such is the state of democracy in Canada.

See no evil, Hear no evil, and especially speak not about the evil.

[tml12]

Martin was senior minister from Quebec, very much in the know of party activities since he was organizing to become party leader.

Pure hearsay that has no basis in fact - the fund raising activities of the parties and the polticians has been kept seperate since the 1940s. If you want to make the assertion that Martin was personally involved in all fund raising then you need to offer more proof than the facile assertion that 'he is a senior Liberal so he had to be involved'. Such statements are nothing more than partisan rhetoric and should not be taken seriously.

It is absurd to suggest that Martin was not aware of $5 million being funneled back to the Liberal Party from firms receiving lucrative government contracts.

These contributions were perfectly legitiment corporate contributions at the time. The only thing that made them improper is the fact that people making the contributions claimed that they were deliberate kickbacks connected to contracts received from the federal gov't. The testimony at Gomery about these 'kickbacks' came mainly of ad executives trying to save their own skins which means they had a motive to exaggerate the connection between their donations and the contracts.

In short, Martin may have know about the contributions but still be unaware that there was such a direct connection between the contracts and the contributions.

The fact is that many Canadian voters have chosen to ignore these obvious facts, or to rationalize them some other way and still vote for the Liberals.  Such is the state of democracy in Canada.

I am sorry, the only real problem in Canada democracy stems from the self-absorbed Quebec voter who insists on voting for an obstructist party like the BQ. If Quebequers have a problem with the Liberals there is an alternative national party with a leader that speaks excellent French and wishes to reduce the role of the federal government in Canada - something that should appeal to Quebequers sensitivities. Unfortunately, speaking French isn't not good enough for Quebequers, you have to be a pure lain Quebequois before Quebquers will consider voting for you. Such is the state of democracy in Canada.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Many Quebecers will not vote for a party that is conservative in origin simply because Quebec is politically more left than anywhere in North America.

[August1991]

I am sorry, the only real problem in Canada democracy stems from the self-absorbed Quebec voter who insists on voting for an obstructist party like the BQ.

I am sorry that so many English-Canadian voters will vote only for the Liberal Party because they believe it alone protects "Canada".

My sobriquet is 'August1991' because Mikhail Gorbachev returned to Moscow in August 1991 after a failed coup. Everything was as before, the Soviet Union still existed. But Russia had changed.

In the same way, after the referendum of October 1995, Canada is here. Our country still exists, but it has changed.

My sobriquet is a reference to le fléau de notre ère, l'inconscience.

[fellowtraveller]

In the same way, after the referendum of October 1995, Canada is here. Our country still exists, but it has changed.

Very well said.

And now, today, who will speak for Canada - and who will listen?