CBC Lockout

[Montgomery Burns]

National Public Radio. It is based in the US but because so many of Canad's major urban areas are so close to the US border a lot of Canadians listen to NPR as well as Americans. There are no ads and it is supported by foundations and indivudal supporters I believe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's also supported by taxpayer dollars. Like Canada's CBC, conservatives are forced to pay for NPR's leftwing pap.

[mirror]

National Public Radio. It is based in the US but because so many of Canad's major urban areas are so close to the US border a lot of Canadians listen to NPR as well as Americans. There are no ads and it is supported by foundations and indivudal supporters I believe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's also supported by taxpayer dollars. Like Canada's CBC, conservatives are forced to pay for NPR's leftwing pap.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The reality is in Canada most Canadians enjoy paying taxes because they know the benefits we receive from paying them. .

That's statism. get used to it, as it is here to stay!

[Renegade]

The reality is in Canada most Canadians enjoy paying taxes because they know the benefits we receive from paying them. .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Most Canadians enjoy paying taxes???? What a load of nonsense. The people who shoulder the bulk of the tax load don't see benefits comparable to the taxes they pay. That's why they aren't given the choice, because if given, they would opt not to pay it.

[mirror]

I believe I said most Canadians, I did not say rich Canadians. There's a very big difference between the two, in case you hadn't noticed.

[Renegade]

I believe I said most Canadians, I did not say rich Canadians. There's a very big difference between the two, in case you hadn't noticed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The majority of Canadians are middle-class not rich, and no even the middle class doesn't "enjoy" paying taxes. From what did you jump to that conclusion?

[mirror]

Do the poor and the middle class like using public transit to travel on, using public roads to drive on, using public hospitals when they are sick, using public schools to send their children to school, etc, etc, etc, and all the other government services that are provided from our governments by them paying taxes?

Of couse they do like using all these government run services paid for with their taxes.

Canadians, contracy to the absurdness spewed out by organizations like the Fraser Institute who front for the rich, and a lot of the MSM, actually do like their governments quite a lot.

Then please give Canadians a little credit for some intelligence.

[Renegade]

Do the poor and the middle class like using public transit to travel on, using public roads to drive on, using public hospitals when they are sick, using public schools to send their children to school, etc, etc, etc, and all the other government services that are provided from our governments by them paying taxes?

Actually there are no end to complaints about public transit, the state of the roads, the state of healthcare, and our schools. By your argument that would indicate that they are not very happy with the services provided by the government.

[Renegade]

Then please give Canadians a little credit for some intelligence. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do. That's why I think they are justified in their complaints.

[mirror]

Dear Renegade

Au shucks, didn't you see those polls that showed that Canadians were some of the biggest complainers in the world? Those complaints don't mean dick otherwise they would not be using the services, they would go elsewhere but they don't, do they, the ppor and the middle class that is.

I thought we were supposed to be reading each other's posts.

You must have missed the part where I said you have been programmed, brainwashewd by way, way too much Fraser Instute propaganda.

There is not much more that I can say to someone who believes everything what she or he reads or sees, in the MSM except:

Have you ever been involved in a car accident with private insurance? Well I was involved in a car accident, I was rear-ended, and insured with government-run ICBC in BC a while back. ICBC paid me, with absolutely no hassle, and I had the cheque, physically in my own hands, within four days. There is not a private insurance company in the world that matches that kind of service. And the rates or taxes, whatever you wish to call them, are much less expensive for government-run auto insurance than any private insurance. Go do a comparison anywhere in Canada! Now do you get my drift?

Cheers,

[Renegade]

Dear Renegade

Au shucks, didn't you see those polls that showed that Canadians were some of the biggest complainers in the world? Those complaints don't mean dick otherwise they would not be using the services, they would go elsewhere but they don't, do they, the ppor and the middle class that is.

Come now mirror, so your position is that the poor and middle class love the government, but only complain because they are by nature the biggest complainers? BTW, the poor and middle class don't use the services because they are happy with them, it is because they have NO choice. (Isn't it ironic it is a position you endorse not to give them a choice?)

I thought we were supposed to be reading each other's posts.

You must have missed the part where I said you have been programmed, brainwashewd by way, way too much Fraser Instute propaganda.

No I read that. I just chose not to respond in kind. BTW, it is not me that is programmed and brainwashed.

There is not much more that I can say to someone who believes everything what she or he reads or sees, in the MSM except:

Have you ever been involved in a car accident with private insurance? Well I was involved in a car accident, I was rear-ended, and insured with government-run ICBC in BC a while back. ICBC paid me, with absolutely no hassle, and I had the cheque, physically in my own hands, within four days. There is not a private insurance company in the world that matches that kind of service. And the rates or taxes, whatever you wish to call them, are much less expensive for government-run auto insurance than any private insurance. Go do a comparison anywhere in Canada!  Now do you get my drift?

Cheers,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tell me mirror, is there ANY industry you think the government should not run and own? It would seem that in your view that there only should be government-run industry and then we would have the best possible product and service? Is that correct?

[Cartman]

Its great features is that it is free of corporate advertising and that it takes a news story and deals with it in depth unlike the garbage you see on Global, etc.

Speaking of garbage on Global, they recently played a newscast and stated that Canadians were going to the polls next week. It was a rerun from months ago. Why would you run a show again that dealt specifically with the likelihood of a spring election?

No wonder Fox News gets higher ratings than CNN, CNN Headline News, MSNBC, and CNBC combined.

Yeah, but would you really compare Fox News to these other (terrible) stations or would Jerry Springer be a better source for comparison? Fox News seems more like entertainment than information dissemination. I don't really find them to be a right wing station as much as an incredible negative station. I am glad the free trial on satellite is over 'cuz it was not worth watching.

[mirror]

Dear renegade

Tell me mirror, is there ANY industry you think the government should not run and own? It would seem that in your view that there only should be government-run industry and then we would have the best possible product and service? Is that correct?

No that is absolutely INCORRECT!

I don't think government should be operating most business however when it comes to essential services and products, or where something is essentially a monopoly, that is open for discussion. Governments have the power to control all corporations primarily via taxation legislation however corporations are often secretly in bed with governments and that frequently becomes problematic. Businesses can often be more efficient than governments but not necessarily more profitable for the citizens, taxpayers, whatever you wish to call them. I prefer the term citizens as taxpayers is a bit of a misnomer and often can give a misleading impression.

Cheers,

[Renegade]

dear mirror, since you believe strongly that most canadians love paying taxes, have a look at these poll results.

Three-Quarters (73%) of Canadians Say They Don’t Get Enough for Their Taxes

Toronto, ONTARIO – As Canadians face the deadline for filing their 2001 taxes, a new Ipsos-Reid/CTV/Globe and Mail poll indicates that Canadians do not feel that they are receiving fair value for the taxes that they have to pay. In fact, three-quarters (73%) – half (49%) strongly - agree that Canadians are taxed too high in comparison to the services, such as health care, education and economic development that they receive in return. One-quarter (25%) express the opposite view.

Three-Quarters (73%) of Canadians Say They Don’t Get Enough for Their Taxes

[Guest eureka]

I am quite happy with tax cuts to fight recession: tax cuts properly directed to the people who need them and would spend the largesse. Borrowing then becomes necessary to maintain a reasonable level of services and that is a Keynesian good.

However, that is not what has been happening, in Canada or the US. Tax cuts have been disproportionately directed towards those who do not need them and will not necessarily spend the money in ways that stimulate activity - economic activity. The borrowing in the US has been for the purpose of waging war and services have declined. In Canada, borrowing has been limited and does not replace the cuts. Consequently, services here have also declined.

[Renegade]

eureka,

while I disagree with you on why we should cut taxes, I'm not looking to hijack this thread by debating it here.

My point was only to refute mirror's claim that "most Canadians enjoy paying taxes"

[mirror]

dear mirror, since you believe strongly that most canadians love paying taxes, have a look at these poll results.

Three-Quarters (73%) of Canadians Say They Don’t Get Enough for Their Taxes

Toronto, ONTARIO – As Canadians face the deadline for filing their 2001 taxes, a new Ipsos-Reid/CTV/Globe and Mail poll indicates that Canadians do not feel that they are receiving fair value for the taxes that they have to pay. In fact, three-quarters (73%) – half (49%) strongly - agree that Canadians are taxed too high in comparison to the services, such as health care, education and economic development that they receive in return. One-quarter (25%) express the opposite view.

Three-Quarters (73%) of Canadians Say They Don’t Get Enough for Their Taxes

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dear Renegade,

Let me give you an example of why Canadians like taxes and why they will like them even more if we ever had a natural disaster like what happened in NO.

What if for example we have a massive earthquake and the City of Richmond, BC is under water. Who do you think is going to cover the costs of trying to save the people and rebuild the place if the decision is made to do that. Do you really think the corporate suits, who were born with Fraser Institute memberships, are going to come in and bail us out. Of course not. It will be through our taxes that our governments will provide the assistance. and Canadians will be rejoicing that fact.

The corporations own the media, and are the media's most important clients as well. And every day, day in, and day out, they pound away on their no taxes mantra. But even with that constant propaganda noise they still can't convince a lot of us to believe them. They even want to control our schools because their brainwashing techniques in the media aren't enough.

Try a little experiment.

Go do a survey of Canadians like Ipsos-Reid did and ask them if they want the government to get involved to help the people of Richmond in the above scenario.

Then ask them if they would be pleased to see that their taxes are at work helping with the rescue efforts.

I think you can figure out the answers for yourself.

Cheers,

[mirror]

Dear renegade

Here is an article you may enjoy reading about how important it is for us to have very good taxation system.

As New Orleans reels, editorials demonize tax-funded government.

And here is a letter written in response. Perhaps you could reflect on the comments of a successful corporate guru Warren Buffet:

Michael raises an interesting item about the relationship between taxes and the common good. In early May of this year I happened to be watching Lou Dobbs interview with Warren Buffet, who is arguably one of the wealthiest men in America. Mr. Dobbs asked Mr. Buffet if wealthy americans and corporations are paying enough in taxes. Mr. Buffet without missing a beat said that US Corporations and wealthy Americans were UNDERTAXED substantially.

For those of us who occassionally listen to the musings of the Fraser Institute, the Canadian Taxpayers Foundation and their handmaiden, Michael Campbell this must be a shocking revelation. They have for years said Canadians are overtaxed and that our tax system/rates should mirror the US.

I have to wonder if more likely the scenario is that we are taxed at or near the right levels and perhaps the US needs to look to Canada for guidance on what their taxes should be. While I would certainly agree there is room for some reductions in taxes but not the massive levels the aforementioned individuals and associations would like to see.

Clearly the Feds in Canada have figured out that if you reduce your overall debt load, you can increase your programme spending and reduce tax loads over time. Of course, governments are indeed loathe to reduce taxes unless forced to.

Cheers,

[Cartman]

I am suroprised anyone would say they get enough for their taxes. I feel I do not get enough for money I spend anywhere.

[Montgomery Burns]

Cartman:

I don't really find them to be a right wing station as much as an incredible negative station.

That's code for "I don't like it when the liberals are forced to back up their drivel on Fox News".

How many times have we seen liberals who appear on Fox News get that misty "CBC doesn't ask me to back up my words" look in their eyes?

No wonder so many liberals are chicken to appear on Fox News. More often than not, they end up looking like clowns.

O'Reilly has, for months, been calling for Howard Dean to appear on The No-Spin Zone. Howard has refused to appear.

[Montgomery Burns]

mirror:

What if for example we have a massive earthquake and the City of Richmond, BC is under water. Who do you think is going to cover the costs of trying to save the people and rebuild the place if the decision is made to do that. Do you really think the corporate suits, who were born with Fraser Institute memberships, are going to come in and bail us out. Of course not.

Apparently, you are unaware of all the corporate stores who have donated money and supplies to the victims of Katrina. I guess you ignored it because it doesn't your "corporations exploit people" meme.

And what about all the money that has been donated individually?

And yet you suggest the govt should be in charge of everything. Didn't you see the local and state govts response to Katrina?

[mirror]

Didn't you see the local and state govts response to Katrina?

Yes actually I, and most of the rest of the planet, who had access to TV, saw the Mayor of New Orleans, Ray Nagin, stay and try and save his people, and basically get no assistance from the Bush administration until Nagin shamed them on national TV into cutting their vacations short, and stopping to go to ball games and shopping for $1,000. shoes.

Strange you missed that part of the disaster. What's that called again? Oh yea, Selective Memory Syndrome.

And concerning the state government bizarre, you missed the following message as well which says Canadians were there helping 5 days before the US Army arrived. I forgot, Secretary of Defence Rumsfiled was in San Diego at a ball game. That explains it. Perhaps you had better go get that Selective Memory Syndrome checked out.

A Louisiana state senator has praised a Canadian search and rescue team. Senator Walter Boasso said a Vancouver-based team reached St. Bernard parish five days before the U.S. army got there.

"Fabulous, fabulous guys," Boasso said. "They started rolling with us and got in boats to save people ... We've got Canadian flags flying everywhere."

The suburb of 68,000 people was initially ignored by U.S. authorities who were scrambling to get aid to New Orleans. Boasso said floodwater in his parish is still 2.4 metres deep in some places.

He said residents of the outlying parishes had to mount their own rescue and relief efforts when Hurricane Katrina struck last week.

The U.S. government response to the disaster has been widely criticized. Some politicians and editorial writers have called for the resignation of top Bush administration officials.

Boasso saved his praise for the Canadians and their quick work. "They were so glad to be here," he said. "They're still here. They are actually going door-to-door looking in the attics" for people to rescue.

Of couse businesses have pitched in, but often unfortunately when you put business people in charge of running government, they get their priorities mixed up, and lose sight of, or actually drop the ball, as what happened with DC and Katrina.

[fellowtraveller]

With reference to the original post:

It is patently absurd in 2005 that all taxpayers are obliged to pay for the CBC.

It provides news and entertainment, both of which are available in enormous quantities elsewhere. If supporters of the network are so gung ho, love the programming, love the concept of commercial free radio/TV - let them get their own money out and put their money where their fat, teat sucking mouths are.

It worked wonderfully with CKUA radio in Alberta.

[mirror]

Perhaps if we didn't have the CBC, Canada would have ended up as part of the US, with the current US administration as our government.

Be careful what you ask for!

[fellowtraveller]

Perhaps if we didn't have the CBC, Canada would have ended up as part of the US, with the current US administration as our government.

Be careful what you ask for! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And if we'd lost WWII, we'd all be speaking German.........

Like it or not, our culture is already wholly dominated by the USA - much like the rest of the world. The CBC does nothing to change that.

The horses have left the barn amigo.

Set your watch ahead to 2005.

The CBC is an anachronism, an expensive anachronism. Nice to have in 1935, but time for a change.

I'm glad you support the network, but is it npot the height of arrogance to assume that I acquiesce in your entertasinment choices? Are you willing to pay for my movies, internet access and magazine subscriptions in return?

[mirror]

Churchill's quote:

"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.

reminds me a lot of the CBC.

Their one-sided political news reporting favouring the Liberals leaves a lot to be desired however overall they are so much better than anything else, although I hear that NPR is quite good as well.

I wonder if it is their political reporting which deep down causes the most frustration for voters/listeners.

Anyway don't you like hockey, or are you an Anne of Green Gables type of guy?