Ontario overshadowing Michigan as

[Big Blue Machine]

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/new...tent=b07160 8A

This is great news for Ontario car workers. This shows that Canadians are better workers and are more dilagent in working. I hope Ontario continues to make more and more cars.

[err]

thanks to less expensive health care and changing tastes in cars, its Canadian neighbour is challenging it for the title of North America's top producer.

An interesting comment from the referenced article... Interesting, in that you Conservative types push privatization (& P3's), but this article plainly states that our public health-care system reduces the costs to businesses, and that health-care costs in the more expensive, American private system make Ontario more attractive to business....

Excellent observation "Big Blue Machine".... Maybe we could start a forum on this....

PS. Did you ever get your hands on "The Quick and the Dead" about Brian Mulroney ??? Interesting reading...

[Big Blue Machine]

Err, I'm sorry but I'm probably not going to read it because I don't like reading that is critical or offensive towards conservative leaders.

[err]

Err, I'm sorry but I'm probably not going to read it because I don't like reading that is critical or offensive towards conservative leaders.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And if the truth were offensive, would you stick your head in the sand and pretend it didn't exist. I think that someone who has aspirations to politics as you have expressed about yourself, that you should look at all points of view an critically analyze them. Only when you can see your position from multiple vantage points and critically defend your position against the various arguments from those positions, will you be ready to run in any political race.

If you refuse to read any articles that are critical of Tory leaders or their philosophies, can I call you the "Big Blue Ostrich" ??

[cybercoma]

It's a bit late, considering the American auto market has all but died.

[err]

It's a bit late, considering the American auto market has all but died.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But isn't it interesting that they cite expensive American health care costs to the companies as one of the biggest reasons Canada fares better... And isn't that a great argument in favour of our PUBLIC health care system ????

[cybercoma]

It's a bit late, considering the American auto market has all but died.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But isn't it interesting that they cite expensive American health care costs to the companies as one of the biggest reasons Canada fares better... And isn't that a great argument in favour of our PUBLIC health care system ????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, it's a terrible argument for all of it. It's more of an argument against the stranglehold auto unions have had on these corporations for years.

[err]

No, it's a terrible argument for all of it.  It's more of an argument against the stranglehold auto unions have had on these corporations for years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unions certainly have their place, and have brought up the standard of living for a great percentage of North Americans. And it's not like General Motors has been suffering for all these years.... The economy, and specifically the cost of oil, has had more to do with weak auto sales recently than anything else....

In "socialist" Canada, as you would probably describe it, the climate is more favourable than in the almighty USA for manufacturing cars.... The explanation was previously expressed (above).... or was your head in the sand for that one too.

Note that in countries like Indonesia, they don't have labour unions.... And what is the standard of living in those countries... how about the working conditions.....

[cybercoma]

No, it's a terrible argument for all of it.  It's more of an argument against the stranglehold auto unions have had on these corporations for years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unions certainly have their place, and have brought up the standard of living for a great percentage of North Americans. And it's not like General Motors has been suffering for all these years.... The economy, and specifically the cost of oil, has had more to do with weak auto sales recently than anything else....

In "socialist" Canada, as you would probably describe it, the climate is more favourable than in the almighty USA for manufacturing cars.... The explanation was previously expressed (above).... or was your head in the sand for that one too.

Note that in countries like Indonesia, they don't have labour unions.... And what is the standard of living in those countries... how about the working conditions.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I absolutely agree, the unions have brought up the standard of living for a great percentage of North Americans.....and the rest lost their jobs to pay for that standard of living. Now those with the higher standard will lose their jobs because the corporation cannot sustain them any longer.

[err]

I absolutely agree, the unions have brought up the standard of living for a great percentage of North Americans.....and the rest lost their jobs to pay for that standard of living.  Now those with the  higher standard will lose their jobs because the corporation cannot sustain them any longer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

" ... and the rest lost their jobs to pay for that standard of living ???? Now those with the higher standard will lose their jobs...." Are these statements based on any kind of fact, or reasonable theories ????

I think you can look at companies for the loss of jobs. The insatiable appetite of stockholders for growth of profit has a lot to answer for..... I was in a Home Depot the other day, and there were 5 'checkouts' where a cashier would have rung in your order. There were also 4 'self scan' stations that didn'r require a cashier.... and four of the five cashiers lights were out.... Four jobs replaced with machines.... Is that the union's fault ???

[cybercoma]

I absolutely agree, the unions have brought up the standard of living for a great percentage of North Americans.....and the rest lost their jobs to pay for that standard of living.  Now those with the  higher standard will lose their jobs because the corporation cannot sustain them any longer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

" ... and the rest lost their jobs to pay for that standard of living ???? Now those with the higher standard will lose their jobs...." Are these statements based on any kind of fact, or reasonable theories ????

I think you can look at companies for the loss of jobs. The insatiable appetite of stockholders for growth of profit has a lot to answer for..... I was in a Home Depot the other day, and there were 5 'checkouts' where a cashier would have rung in your order. There were also 4 'self scan' stations that didn'r require a cashier.... and four of the five cashiers lights were out.... Four jobs replaced with machines.... Is that the union's fault ???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's funny you should bring up Home Depot, since I happen to know a thing or two about them. Those self-checkouts are a convenience for customers so they don't have to wait in lineups of they only have a few items. Those 4 registers are manned by a cashier at all times. Also, the installment of those "do it yourself" registers hasn't reduced the number of labour hours for the 'front end' of the stores at all.

I happen to know these things as fact.

I should ask you, what time was it when you were in the store? At any given time there are several cashiers working. The contractor entrance, tool corral, tool rental center, service desk, returns counter, front end and do-it-yourself registers all have a cashier working at all hours the stores are open.

[err]

It's funny you should bring up Home Depot, since I happen to know a thing or two about them.  Those self-checkouts are a convenience for customers so they don't have to wait in lineups of they only have a few items.  Those 4 registers are manned by a cashier at all times.  Also, the installment of those "do it yourself" registers hasn't reduced the number of labour hours for the 'front end' of the stores at all.

I happen to know these things as fact.

I should ask you, what time was it when you were in the store?  At any given time there are several cashiers working.  The contractor entrance, tool corral, tool rental center, service desk, returns counter, front end and do-it-yourself registers all have a cashier working at all hours the stores are open.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe the Home Depot in your neighbourhood happened to have four cashiers on that last time you were at it, but as I described, there was only one cashier on duty, and four or 5 empty checkout counters... I refused to go through the "self checkout", and hence had to wait 10 minutes... and I complained to the manager about it ....

Those self-checkouts are so that the company does not have to pay staff to deal with customers... You need your head examined if you think that there is any other reason for them...

It might seem like a good idea that companies should be able to replace their minimum wage jobs with machines... they'll pay for themselves fairly quickly... and those employees can go to the unemployment or welfare lines...

You claim to be an authority on Home Depot... and based on this, you can provide me with factual information.... Your credibility is still lacking... because you haven't provided any credintials or statement of relationship to the firm... Do you walk by Home Depot on your way to school ????

[cybercoma]

Maybe the Home Depot in your neighbourhood happened to have four cashiers on that last time you were at it, but as I described, there was only one cashier on duty, and four or 5 empty checkout counters... I refused to go through the "self checkout", and hence had to wait 10 minutes... and I complained to the manager about it ....

Those self-checkouts are so that the company does not have to pay staff to deal with customers...  You need your head examined if you think that there is any other reason for them...

It might seem like a good idea that companies should be able to replace their minimum wage jobs with machines... they'll pay for themselves fairly quickly... and those employees can go to the unemployment or welfare lines...

You claim to be an authority on Home Depot... and based on this, you can provide me with factual information.... Your credibility is still lacking... because you haven't provided any credintials or statement of relationship to the firm... Do you walk by Home Depot on your way to school ????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, I work for Home Depot.

Oh and cashiers in our stores don't make minimum wage.

And as I said in the beginning, the entire reason we brought them into the stores was so customers like yourself wouldn't have to wait 10 minutes in line when they only have a few items to cash out with.

What time of day were you in the store? Cashiers are scheduled based on customer demand through a graphing system of sales and projections. I already told you which registers are open at all times during the day, perhaps you just didn't notice they were open. Did you consider that perhaps some staff called in sick, causing them not to meet their graphs?

Scheduling hours for cashiers has not been affected by bringing in self-checkouts, nor will they be. There are still things that customers will absolutely have to go through the standard cashiers for.

Not a single person in our entire company has lost their job to self-checkouts which have been around for about a year and a half now. I imagine the same can be said for Zehrs and other retailers that use these systems.

But please, I'd really like to know what time of day you visited the store because that would tell me how many cashiers we'd normally have on. At all open hours there is a cashier at Special Services, Contractor Exit, Tool Rental, Front End, Hardware Corral and Returns. You obviously wouldn't think to go to returns to cash out, so I won't even count that one. This means at all times there are 5 cashiers working, bare minimum as far as scheduling goes. If someone were to call in sick, they'd take the cashier from the hardware corral and put him/her at the front end leaving us with 4. Sometimes there's 15 minute periods of reduced coverage if the head cashier sends someone on break.

When they brought in the self-checkouts they actually added another mandatory cash position at those registers. Someone has to be standing there at all times, so that brings the number up to 6.

So at any given time during a day, we're supposed to have a minimum of 6 cashiers working, none of whom make minimum wage. Other than Costco, we probably have some of the best paid cashiers in the retail industry.

Just thought I'd let you know that you have some misconceptions about the self-checkout systems as I too was skeptical about them, until I read through all the information on them and saw them in operation.

[err]

Actually, I work for Home Depot.

Oh and cashiers in our stores don't make minimum wage.

And as I said in the beginning, the entire reason we brought them into the stores was so customers like yourself wouldn't have to wait 10 minutes in line when they only have a few items to cash out with. 

What time of day were you in the store?  Cashiers are scheduled based on customer demand through a graphing system of sales and projections.  I

But please, I'd really like to know what time of day you visited the store because that would tell me how many cashiers we'd normally have on. 

When they brought in the self-checkouts they actually added another mandatory cash position at those registers.  Someone has to be standing there at all times, so that brings the number up to 6.

So at any given time during a day, we're supposed to have a minimum of 6 cashiers working, none of whom make minimum wage.  Other than Costco, we probably have some of the best paid cashiers in the retail industry.

Just thought I'd let you know that you have some misconceptions about the self-checkout systems as I too was skeptical about them, until I read through all the information on them and saw them in operation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This was at 1:00 PM on a Sunday afternoon... most probably in a different city from the one you work and live in.... where maybe they brought them in earlier than in your city....

I still assert that the self-checkouts are replacements for jobs. I would imagine that the cashiers (and other employees) in your store looked at these new machines with suspicion and unease when they were first installed. The Home Depot management will tell you that the machines are just an extra, to make sure that customers are dealt with in a timely manner...

But then again, that's what they said about instant tellers (ATM machines). Have you walked into a Bank of Montreal in the past while and seen just how many "customer service professionals" are in there to help you.... We both know that it is a much smaller number than before the advent of the instant teller.

So when we have the next economic downturn, you may lose a cashier or two... that won't be replaced....

Would you think that these would be a good idea at the LCBO ??? They could get rid of some of those overpaid employees......

[cybercoma]

I still assert that the self-checkouts are replacements for jobs. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And you're wrong, plain and simple.

As I've said, cashiers have so many forecasted hours for staffing and that does not drop when do it yourself registers are installed. In fact an extra cashier is needed to run them. The benefit to having them is that there's 5 registers open at any time instead of just 1. They're nothing more than a service for the customer who wants to run in pick up a couple items and get out without having to wait. Home Depot has promised its cashiers that none of them will lose their jobs from self-checkouts and none of them have.

And I don't believe there was only 1 cashier working at around 1pm on a sunday afternoon. Either there were sick calls and that was the reason for the problem, or you were in a terribly slow store that just didn't need that many cashiers.

[err]

I still assert that the self-checkouts are replacements for jobs. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And you're wrong, plain and simple.

Home Depot has promised its cashiers that none of them will lose their jobs from self-checkouts and none of them have.

And I don't believe there was only 1 cashier working at around 1pm on a sunday afternoon. Either there were sick calls and that was the reason for the problem, or you were in a terribly slow store that just didn't need that many cashiers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Promises, promises..... Dalton McGuilty made lots of promises, and what did that protect us from....

If the company was really concerned with not making customers wait, they have some choices... and one of them is hiring more staff... They didn't make that choice... so I think that their direction should be clear to you.... unless you cant see the trees for the forest.

And I'll concede that you were right about only one cashier.... I didn't count the woman watching everyone at the self-checkout counters..... There was one cashier, and one checkout lady.... And a bunch of un-manned checkout counters....

PS: I have nothing against Home Depot, but I will not use their self-checkout job stealers...

But shouldn't we be talking about Ontario being better than Michigan because of our wonderful socialized medicine ????..

[Renegade]

PS:  I have nothing against Home Depot, but I will not use their self-checkout job stealers...

Yes, and perhaps you should load your purchases in your horse-drawn carriage because you know those new-fangled cars, they just steal jobs from the buggy makers.

[err]

PS:  I have nothing against Home Depot, but I will not use their self-checkout job stealers...

Yes, and perhaps you should load your purchases in your horse-drawn carriage because you know those new-fangled cars, they just steal jobs from the buggy makers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did you get your seeds from Mark Emery???

[Renegade]

So err, Tell us all how you avoid ATMs because they too are job-stealers.

[err]

So err, Tell us all how you avoid ATMs because they too are job-stealers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was talking about the "auto-checkout" lines that are replacing jobs in Home Depot, along with a number of grocery stores. It's too late for the ATM machine... they've replaced half of the people who worked in the banks.

Back to the auto-checkout... I will choose to use a human teller every time, over a machine. If the delay is long, then I'll complain to managment, and tell them that if the delays are too long, I'll go to their competitor. Even though the jobs are low-paying jobs, they're still jobs.

You can argue that it's better to get the product cheaper by not having the teller there, but then you have to pay for that dreaded UI, or even better, your favorite, welfare.....

[Renegade]

err, there is no reason for a human to do what a machine can do quicker, easier, and cheaper. In the case of the self-checkout. It serves a purpose for those who have a few simple items to check-out. I use both the self-checkout and the manned cashier depending upon the lenght of the line and what I have purchased.

You should consider becoming a Luddite. You'd fit right in. I take that back, maybe you already are one.

You can argue that it's better to get the product cheaper by not having the teller there, but then you have to pay for that dreaded UI, or even better, your favorite, welfare.....

Actually no, not if I had a choice, I wouldn't be paying for either in their present form.

[err]

err, there is no reason for a human to do what a machine can do quicker, easier, and cheaper. In the case of the self-checkout. It serves a purpose for those who have a few simple items to check-out. I use both the self-checkout and the manned cashier depending upon the lenght of the line and what I have purchased.

You should consider becoming a Luddite. You'd fit right in. I take that  back, maybe you already are one.

Man you are naive. If your job were to be replaced by a high-tech machine, would you be happy... then you could take every day off... wouldn't that be cool... You could spend all day on the internet spreading you wisom to the world.

[Riverwind]

Man you are naive. If your job were to be replaced by a high-tech machine, would you be happy... then you could take every day off... wouldn't that be cool... You could spend all day on the internet spreading you wisom to the world.

Our entire society is built with machines that reduce/eliminate the need for labour. Each time a job is automated then that person is freed to do another job that cannot be done by a machine and the net result is our society is wealthier even if an individual finds themselves at a loss.

For example, 125 years ago a large percentage of the population was employed on the farm. The gas tractors eliminated these jobs and the workers moved to the city where they could make more money working in factories.

If people thought like you they would have banned tractors from farms because they are job stealers. Tell me err - will you boycot farmers who use tractors?

[Guest eureka]

Take a peek into Jeremy Rifkin's, "The End of Work." He exaggerate (or is premature) in his forecasts, but he posits that in the not too distanr future not more than about 25% of the population will have any work.

He thinks we should be preparing for that time and finding ways for people to ocucpy their time AND be supported. Technological advance, of course, will be the cause.

Should that advance not be shared by all and not restricted to those who can still have an earning capacity?

[err]

Should that advance not be shared by all and not restricted to those who can still have an earning capacity?

I can think of a few regular posters in these forums who would think so... but then again, they can't imagine themselves on the "unfortuante list"...