Stoker Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 The sinner has a vested interest that the religious be wrong, the religious hedge their bets on the side of faith, but often practice 'jack-(insert religion here)' and the church has a vested interest in it's collection plate. Though I don't think that I'm hedging my bets (not that thats a bad term to describe some people's faith), one could look at like what do they have to lose? Is having one life centered around a book a bad thing? If one gains hope or pleasure in serving the lord, how is that a bad thing? I can't stress the point, if religion was a hoax, what have religious people lost? But if it's true.........the non believers are fucked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LLL Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 It's not up to the nonbelievers to prove that God and Satan, exist . It's up to those who claim the existence of anything to prove it. Do you have a family? Do you Love your family members? If so, prove it! All this time I thought you were saying that God was real and not a mere emotion, a feeling. In that case you don't have to prove anything, God does exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoker Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 All this time I thought you were saying that God was real and not a mere emotion, a feeling. You seem confused......God is real, but ones faith in the Lord is an emotion. So do you love your family members? Is Love real? Or just a mere emotion? Can it be both? A verb and a noun if you will? In that case you don't have to prove anything, God does exist. I don't feel the need to "prove anything" regardless, untill such a times as you start to anwser questions also. Do you love your family? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willy Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Yes, freedom is found OUTSIDE of religion. "In essence, freedom and compulsion are one. Let me give you a simple illustration. Traffic lights restrain your freedom to crosss a street whenever you wish. But this restrain gives you the freedom from being run over by a truck. If you were assigned to a job and prohibited from leaving it, it would restrain the freedom of your career. But it would give you freedom from the fear of unemployment. Whenever a new compulsion is imposed upon us, we automat6ically gain a new freedom. The two are inseparable. Only by accepting total compulsion can we achieve total freedom." Ayn Rand And with that being said accepting God is the greatest freedom I have ever known, and for none Christians, faith is something one experiences. It has both a physical and perceptual reality. As for banning the Church, not possible if there is a God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LLL Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 You seem confused......God is real, but ones faith in the Lord is an emotion. Ok then, if God is real but one's faith in him is an emotion, then Santa Claus is real too as one's faith in him is an emotion also. I believe in Santa Claus more then I believe in God. Do you have a problem with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoker Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Ok then, if God is real but one's faith in him is an emotion, then Santa Claus is real too as one's faith in him is an emotion also. I'm glad you understand the concept. How long did it take for you to figure out if you don't mind my asking? I believe in Santa Claus more then I believe in God. Whatever floats your boat. IMHO, being condemned to Hell is more of a concern then having a lump of coal in my stocking.......... Do you have a problem with that? "Therefore, thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest; for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LLL Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Ok then, if God is real but one's faith in him is an emotion, then Santa Claus is real too as one's faith in him is an emotion also. I'm glad you understand the concept. How long did it take for you to figure out if you don't mind my asking? I've understood the concept of an imaginary friend for a long long time, what I don't get is those who insist on sharing one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blue Machine Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 There is something wrong with believing in santa or god. Religion is good for the souls of religious people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blue Machine Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 There is NOTHING WRONG I mean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LLL Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 There is NOTHING WRONG I mean How about pink elephants? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoker Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 I've understood the concept of an imaginary friend for a long long time, what I don't get is those who insist on sharing one. What don't you "get"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LLL Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 What don't you "get"? God. Did you know, Stoker, that the word "god" doesn't even exist in my huge brand spanking new (4 years old) Encarta World English Dictionary? Soon the kids will look at you with bewilderment. GET WITH THE PROGRAM! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eureka Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Might I suggest investing in a Dictionary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoker Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 God. Did you know, Stoker, that the word "god" doesn't even exist in my huge brand spanking new (4 years old) Encarta World English Dictionary? Soon the kids will look at you with bewilderment. GET WITH THE PROGRAM! Thanks! Did you keep the bill of sale? God 1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshiped as creator and ruler of the universe b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoker Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 For shits and giggles: Encarta Dictonary 1. religion supreme being: the being believed in monotheistic religions such as Judaism, Islam, and Christianity to be the all-powerful all-knowing creator of the universe, worshiped as the only god2. christianity the Trinity: one supreme being worshiped by Christians in the form of three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost Perhaps you are mistaken LLL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theloniusfleabag Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Dear Stoker, For shits and giggles:I think you'll find that some people aren't entirely honest.usually (but not always) a flame/troll poster with many aliases. Don't take these too seriously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playfullfellow Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 The soviets tried banning the church, didn't work. The Communist Chinese try to ban the church, they aren't having much success there either. The Nazi's also tried banning most religions, that get really far either. Christians were fed to the lions by the Romans. The list goes on and yet we still have churches around and people who are deeply religious. Protection of our religious beliefs is protected under the charter. Long before any rights of the homosexuals was protected. We are allowed to make our own decisions on whether we go to church or not. That is the great thing about Canada, we have a choice but so many people want to limit our choices as they feel that their was is the only way. We have more religious people in this country than homosexuals but yet our religions are under constant attack from the outside. People scream bloody murder when it comes to the rights of homosexual ( I am not attacking homosexuals here, personally I couldn't care less), criminals, pedophiles, terrorists and so forth yet they are the first to comdemn peoples choices to go to church. I think some people have way too much time on their hands and need to mind their own business and leave others alone. It is my choice to be able to attend church if I want to, deal with it. You don't have to go, thats the wonderful thing about choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seabee Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Doesn't the 1982 Constitutional Charter of Rights declare in its preamble that Canada recognizes "the Supremacy of God"? Which, or whose God? Is this debate leading to a constitutional change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LLL Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Perhaps you are mistaken LLL? What a beautiful and thoughtful deduction. Not at all like that of Theloniousfleabag, who immediately called me a dishonest liar. But then I don't expect much from a devout agnostic who admits to belonging to The Church of Sh*t Happens. It is when he admitted yesterday to belonging to that church that I got a little angry, and after remembering Voltaire's musing: .... "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it." ..... I immediatley knelt down and wished the same on Theloniousfleabag. But it looks like God, having a sense of humor, decided to make ME look ridiculous instead. I swear to you, Stoker, I didn't see it there yesterday. The first time I looked and didn't see the word "God", nor "god", I was absolutely certain that I had just overlooked it, so I looked a second time, and a third and a fourth, and it still wasn't there. I even told my editor about it, with my Encarta in hand, but she, for some unexplainable reason, trusted me fully this one time and did not double check. I think He had her in on it too. Today, after reading your kind post I looked again and, lo and behold, it was there, both with a small and a capitalized "G". I must admit, Stoker, I feel closer to Him today, than I did yesterday. Is there any way I can return the favor? Thanks in advance for believing that I probably didn't intentionally bullshit yesterday and giving me a chance to explain. Ru PS - Remembering another quote Voltaire cranked out just before he died: .... "I die adoring God, loving my friends, not hating my enemies, and detesting superstition." ....I want you to know that I think that I'm pretty close to accomplishing that too when it is my turn to shuffle off my mortal coil. Except hating Theloniousfleabag, of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Terrible Sweal Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 They assert a version of 'reality' which they also assert is authoritative and unquestionable. How do know that that "version" of reality, is not infact the reality? You are focusing on the wrong aspect: the assertions may be right they may be wrong, but they are not CERTAIN of being right, so it is the claim of certainty which is false. (The claim of certainty is also EVIDENCE of being wrong. You don't have to resort to arguments by authority unless you have no valid arguments.) These are not compatible Why? Think about it. You didn't answer my question about why time is relevant. Progress. I don't see how any Church that was formed after the reformation can be blamed for the Catholic churchs fault(s). Even if they continue them and expand upon them?!?! Observation, experience, cogitation. What have you observed to prove faith false? What have you experienced to prove faith false? What have you reflected on that has proven faith false? The claims of 'faith', and the nature of the world as it presents itself to the senses and the mind are incompatible. Carbon dating puts paid to the Biblical timeline. Conflicts among believers undermine the claims that any of them represent a divine will. Inherent contradictions within the Bible require that at least one or another part of it must be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Terrible Sweal Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 If one gains hope or pleasure in serving the lord, how is that a bad thing? Can't you do a little better than pure reductionism? If religion confined itself to providing a little mental lift for people it would pose little problem. But religion causes much more trouble than just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanni Fucci Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Whereas, the apologists cannot even irrefutably prove the existence of their saviour whom they claim had walked the Earth, nor is there any evidence that Moses lived and died at any time in antiquity, and Mohammed was an unapologetic pedophile, I think that my spiritual well-being would be better in the served by an unwavering belief in a happy band of leprechauns... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slavik44 Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Whereas, the apologists cannot even irrefutably prove the existence of their saviour whom they claim had walked the Earth, nor is there any evidence that Moses lived and died at any time in antiquity, and Mohammed was an unapologetic pedophile, I think that my spiritual well-being would be better in the served by an unwavering belief in a happy band of leprechauns... good for you I could careless what or who you belvie in and if a bunch of leprechauns do it for you I will support your right to belive in such a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanni Fucci Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Agreed...I don't deny anyone their Charter protected right to believe in what they will either...although I sometimes wonder why they do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slavik44 Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Agreed...I don't deny anyone their Charter protected right to believe in what they will either...although I sometimes wonder why they do... certainly and your free to do that as well however this thread was asking to ban being able to do such things. Not neccasarily about some paradoxes or contradictions people may see in religions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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