Martin says Canada can defend itself

[Argus]

I learn from my mistakes and the mistakes of my ancestors, appeasement NEVER WORKS.

By this standard, the entire Muslim world should declare war on the US, because the US is the aggressor here, not the "terrorists".

This sort of logic seems to spring from the belief that if a nation, ie, the US, is richer and more powerful, and takes advantage of that wealth and power, then poorer nations should feel free to commit whatever acts of violence they feel are neccesary to "equalize" things.

Thus it was the US who was the agressor by using its influence and power in the middle east to further its own interests. And the terrorists who dropped the World Trade Centre were simply responding to American agression.

The only people in the Arab world who could remotely be considered to have a legitimate case to "declare war" on the US are Afghanistan and Iraq. Afghanistan was a legitimate target given it willingly housed the largest and most prolific terrorist organization in the world and called them their allies. And so they really have no case. The Iraqis were being ruled, against their own will, be a brutal dictator. And the only reason anyone could possibly declare they are not better off after the US attack is because of the murderous violence being perpetrated by their own people. And so they have no case.

And so you have no case.

However, if the Muslim world wishes to declare war on the US, they are welcome to do so. They will lose. Badly. And that will be the end of the "Muslim world."

[Argus]

Not so long ago, Talisman Energy sold it's operations and withdrew from Sudan. The reason? They were tired of the bad press associated with killing the local populace by proxy, in order to reap large profits. (The gov't troops, funded by Talisman money, would simply kill anyone who wanted to farm the land, or share in the profits)

And I presume now all is peace and happiness and love and togetherness there right?

Now, OBL is saying to the West," you have killed my brother's family and taken his wealth. You have killed my cousin's family.... now I have had enough and will attack your family until you stop attacking mine". Yet you call him a 'terrorist' when he claims it is ( facts and history will back this up)...self-defence.

Hmm, this is the intellectually and morally bankrupt argument I just reiterated above, that because the US has power and wealth, and uses both in its own interests, then it is legitimate to commit any acts of murder or violence by people who consider themselves disinfranchised (whether they are or are not). The Saudi government invites the US to come in and occupy a couple of largely isolated military bases without much interaction with the locals. This legitimately gives OBL the right to murder Americans because he disagrees with the decision of his government.

The US has not stolen OBLs wealth, or that of his brother, or that of his cousin. OBLs anger and outrage were raised simply because the US, at the invitation of the Saudis, set its infidal foot onto the holy land of Allah. Trying to render his religious bigotry into some kind of argument over wealth and rights is spurious nonsense and comes precariously close to not only justifying terrorism but outright welcoming it.

appeasement NEVER WORKS.

Is ceasing aggression and 'theft', appeasement? Is a mugging victim who fights back a terrorist?

When the mugging "victim" goes to his muggers home and murders his wife, children and neighbours - yes.

[Argus]

We DO NOT run around the world telling other nations that WE know the best way to live, and govern, Force them to bend to our will!!!!

Canada is actually fairly notorious around the world for self righteous moralizing. We often try to tell people how to live and govern themselves, and make no secert of our disapproval of those who do not live up to our standards. The nation that we, or indeed the US "forces" others to bend to their will on such things is nonsensical and unsupported by historical evidence. The US acts out of self-interest - as we do. They simply have more interests in the world than us.

The US does not force others to live as they live. It does exert pressure on behalf of its interests, just as we do on behalf of ours. Their pressure, of course, is considerably greater primarily for two reasons, neither having much to do with its military. One, they give far, far more development aid than we do, and no third world nation wants to risk having that aid curtailed. And Two, access to their economic markets is deeply import to many nations. Angering them might threaten that access. Using the influence from such thigns is commonplace. We do it as well, as do the Japanese, the Chinese, the Russians, The Brits, and French, etc. You only notice it more because the Americans, being larger and far wealthier, have far more influence at their disposal.

Canada does not need a large Super Army, because we don't give reason to Hate or Attack us!!!!!

As for giving reason to "hate and attack us", it really doesn't take much to offend a fanatic religious wacko. Just ask the Spanish or Kenyans or Australians.

[Big Blue Machine]

I agree that Canada doesn't need a super large army, but I think we should have a modest well equipped one. We will never have an army the size of the Americans, but we can do our best with what we have.