Wholesale Slaughter is Moral?

[Trial-and-Error]

The Moral Right - The Iraqi War Rocks!

I'm not a religious person, but it seems to me that the religious right are great students of the Bible. Yes, well, then, perhaps those of the religious right who support the invasion of Iraq could help shed some light on one of the commandments--issued by God I understand--which alludes to killing being a sin. Can you confirm such a commandment?

If so, can you tell me if God made some exceptions that I am unaware of--like did he exclude the wholesale slaughter of Iraqis and other such groups which the United States deems expendable in its pursuit of black gold or any other commodity it wishes to control? But, of course, under the guise of liberating the Iraqis from Saddam. No, I mean, under the guise of finding WMD. No, I mean, under the guise of getting to the guys who helped Bin Laden orchestrate the demolition of two WT towers and the killing of 3,000 people. Good grief, if Bush can't tell it straight, how do you expect me to get it straight.

In any event, guess I lost religion when I first began to take notice that many religious and secular leaders (like the one south of the 49th who actually speaks to God) are accomplished liars, cheaters, and thieves who condone killing in certain instances which they alone define.

Nope, I ain't got no religion but hey, good common sense works for this pragmatist.

[The Terrible Sweal]

Of course wholesale slaughter is moral. It's in the Bible.

{Judges 8:17}

[Trial-and-Error]

Gee thanks, but got no bible to check it out.

So is it all in the terminology then, like slaughtering is not killing? Guess that's why we have to pay intermediaries--preachers, rabbis, priests, et al to help god's obtuse understand the word. Bah bah bah

[willy]

Judges 8 :17 “He also pulled down the tower of Peniel and killed the men.”

I am not sure why you would point out this one line or this one story. Put in context it is a story that is repeated by many individuals throughout the Old Testament. God delivers man from pagan rulers; man treats God like a servant, creates idols, misuses power and ultimately ends up in bondage again. This long bit of history tells us more about man than God. This also tells us about the world.

Following the teachings of the bible all the way back in Genesis, we are in a fallen world. This means we become pray for evil and we commit sin. In this circumstance Christian or not as a leader of a nation one may have to confront other nations when they perceive them to be a threat to the relative peace. In the case of Iraq, they had a bad man as leader, they hold a unique geographical location in the Middle East and they had preexisting issues. To challenge the Islamic fundamentalist movement (war on terror) spreading western justice and freedom is a strategy. Only history will tell if it is a good one. With great power comes great responsibility and the US is the only super power. Let’s hope God is working in Bush’s life and transforming him to be more Christ like.

[The Terrible Sweal]

The rest of the story... Gideon killed the men of Penuel because they refused to feed his army. With him or against him, I guess.

4   And Gideon came to Jordan, and passed over, he, and the three hundred men that were with him, faint, yet pursuing them.

5   And he said unto the men of Succoth, Give, I pray you, loaves of bread unto the people that follow me; for they be faint, and I am pursuing after Zebah and Zalmunna, kings of Midian.

6   And the princes of Succoth said, Are the hands of Zebah and Zalmunna now in thine hand, that we should give bread unto thine army?

7   And Gideon said, Therefore when the LORD hath delivered Zebah and Zalmunna into mine hand, then I will tear your flesh with the thorns of the wilderness and with briers.

8   And he went up thence to Penuel, and spake unto them likewise: and the men of Penuel answered him as the men of Succoth had answered him.

9   And he spake also unto the men of Penuel, saying, When I come again in peace, I will break down this tower.

...

15   And he came unto the men of Succoth, and said, Behold Zebah and Zalmunna, with whom ye did upbraid me, saying, Are the hands of Zebah and Zalmunna now in thine hand, that we should give bread unto thy men that are weary?

16   And he took the elders of the city, and thorns of the wilderness and briers, and with them he taught the men of Succoth.

17   And he beat down the tower of Penuel, and slew the men of the city.

http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?p...=on&showxref=on

[willy]

The Terrible Sweal, this is not God directing action. This should be read in a historical context it was meant.

Gods people in Judges regularly defy the commandments of God and then they pay for it. This is the context it should be read. Example the people did this and then this happened. When God makes pronouncements on behaviour it is obvious.

[The Terrible Sweal]

But God supposedly personally helped Gideon pick his 300 assassins:

Judges 7...

6  And the number of them that lapped, putting their hand to their mouth, were three hundred men: but all the rest of the people bowed down upon their knees to drink water.

7  And the LORD said unto Gideon, By the three hundred men that lapped will I save you, and deliver the Midianites into thine hand: and let all the other people go every man unto his place.

And as for Gideon:

Judges 8...

30  And Gideon had threescore and ten sons of his body begotten: for he had many wives.

31  And his concubine that was in Shechem, she also bare him a son, whose name he called Abimelech.

32  And Gideon the son of Joash died in a good old age, and was buried in the sepulchre of Joash his father, in Ophrah of the Abiezrites.

[Choke]

According to the Old Testament, killing anyone who is not a Jew by race or by choice (ie living in keeping with the Mosaic Law, etc) is not a sin. It's only wrong if it's one of God's people, and most people are not Jews.

According to the New Testament, killing anyone is fine as long as you say you're sorry later, since Jesus died for your sins.

I believe in the OT.