Party with most lies

[CANADIEN]

You can't find many people who voted Liberal, Bro? Me neither.

But if you travel throughout the country, you will find even less people who voted Conservative, or NDP, or Bloc. You want to know why the Liberal got more seats? Try that.

That our electoral system can result in a party with less than half of the votes getting a majority of seats is a problem, of course. But no matter how you change the system, the likely result will still be that the party with 36% of the votes gets more seats than the party with 30% of the votes.

[caesar]

Doesn't work. Bush lowered taxes and economy died.

Lower taxes just mean more money in the pockets of the rich. American owned Canadian companies remove that extra money from /Canada.

[The Terrible Sweal]

But what do say since there have been no new cases found in all the animals tested to date? Was this cow a random case? Was this some form of naturally occuring BSE? There are naturally occuring forms of similar diseases in ungulates such as deer and elk known as CWD (chronic wasting disease).

There are several possible explanations for why there have been no new cases including that the source no longer exists, that occurences are extremely rare, or that our testing is not capturing the situation (...shoot, bury and say nothing down on the farm, anyone?) The point is that the "science" cannot at this point tell us which.

Of course prions occur 'naturally'. The idea that they appear 'spontaneously' is a different question. Maybe they can, the "science" isn't telling us that, now, is it?

So we are looking at a situation where we have found no new cases and we have eliminated the possible cause of infection from the food chain.

If you mean we have stopped feeding animals to herbivores, that is mistaken. We have changed which parts of which animals can be fed to herbivores on the specious assumption that some parts are less dangerous than other parts. The "science" behind that is simply ludicrous.

Canada has demonstrated quite well that they are doing the right thing. 

Demonstrated it!!!?? To whom? By doing what?

[Argus]

Doesn't work. Bush lowered taxes and economy died.

Lower taxes just mean more money in the pockets of the rich. American owned Canadian companies remove that extra money from /Canada.

Bush is not a conservative. Bush is a parrot for big money interests and the religious right. He neither knows nor apparently cares much about anything beyond his own personal fortunes - much as Chretien wasn't really a Liberal. Both men are self serving demagogues who cared only for themselves. Neither has any vision, neither entered politics to do better, to accomplish something, to improve their countries. They are weaslly political hacks. Nothing more.

And Bush's tax cuts were not the kind of cuts any real conservative would have made.

[Argus]

I do think that most people who call themselves believe that. I don't think any of the leadership does. They think only of a better place for themselves and the wealthier part of the growing divide.

I do believe the leadership, at least in Canada, is mainly made up of those who honestly believe in conservative fiscal and social policies - certainly more than the current Liberal leadership believes in - whatever it is they're supposed to believe in.

How can any seriously think that a Bill of Goods sold to the American and British of lower taxes, less government and privatized services that was a resounding failure except for the wealthy, could be for the betterment of society. It took America a decade or more to recover from the disaster and Britain still has not been able to get the railways or the water supplies workiing again.

The UK economy was on the verge of meltdown when Thatcher took over. There were far too many heavily subsidised industries churning out poor quality services and goods with outrageously high priced union labour. The mlitancy and obstinancy of British unions was legendary. Much of UK industry was on the verge of rust-out, relics from the first half of the twentieth century. This is what the British left had accomplished over decades of stewardship. Not everything Thatcher did was right, but she saved the UK from bankruptcy. Nor did America experience any great disaster aside from a recession we all felt.

Tax cuts; getting government of one's back resonates and sells to the naive and the greedy but it works for only the wealthy in the short run and no one in the long run.

No, I disagree. I believe in strong government services - those that we NEED. I believe in paying taxes to support efficient health care, pensions, consumer protections, military, police, fire, etc. I have no problem with paying what is needed to support these services, provided they are being run efficiently.

But government pays for so very much that we do not "need". Some of that is useful, but not altogether neccesary. Some of it is not particularly useful at all. We waste billions every year on inefficient, corrupt, or simply unneeded services that I do not wish to pay for. The high taxes required to pay for those services are a disincentive to business to create jobs. For example, every new job a business creates requires it pay higher taxes in the form of payroll taxes. A business paying lower taxes has higher profits, and can thus afford to hire more workers and expand. That is fairly basic and should be easily understood. The more profit in business the more business there will be. The more business, the more jobs.

[Argus]

Look, for example, at Ontario during the Harris years. As a result of massive tax cuts, and despite more money being put in them (apparently), the public infrastructure (schools, hospitals, roads, public transit) is crumbling around us.

Your example collapse when one realizes the same situation has been occuring in liberal run provinces, as well, not to mention the socialist run Quebec. Skyrocketing health care costs are a major factor, now consuming about half of provincial budgets. The cost of teachers is far too high, given their quality of service, and given most could be fairly easily replaced by reasonably talented high school graduates. Public transit? Has anyone looked at the salaries of public transit workers lately? Is the skill of driving a bus really so rare that we need to pay bus drivers $65,000 per year? I'm not saying they should be on minimum wage but, wouldn't $45k by sufficient to attract enough quality bus drivers - and teachers, for that matter?

[CANADIEN]

Argus,

As I am an Ontarian, I commented on the situation as I lived it in Ontario, under a Conservative government.

There is no doubt that cuts in public investments to the point of destroying public infrastructure is not a monopoly of governments labelled conservative. Look at BC under the current Liberal government. Look at New Zealand as a result of the destructive policies initiated under a Labour government. Cut taxes beyond what is needed to sustain public infrastructure and they collapse.

BTW, Argus, do you actually believe any reasonably talented high school graduate could be a teacher? Yeah right. Most people who complain about teachers could not last one week doing their job. I was lucky, I lasted two months.

Teacher's dedication is not, in too many cases, what it used to be. Bizarre, but the decline started when our society stopped valuying a teacher's job.

As for a teacher's salary... Considering the responsibilities imparted upon them (teach to kids who would rather not be there, maintain discipline, negociate conflicts) and what society brings into the class (the effects of child abuse, spousal violence, poverty, immigrants' problems, conflicts and tensions of all kind), I consider 40 or 50 thousand dollars a year cheap labour. Why anybody with what it takes to be a teacher would go in that line of work instead of getting a job that will be less stressful, better paid and above all appreciated is beyond me.

[Argus]

There is no doubt that cuts in public investments to the point of destroying public infrastructure is not a monopoly of governments labelled conservative.

Yes, that was my point. So why pretend it is.

BTW, Argus, do you actually believe any reasonably talented high school graduate could be a teacher?  Yeah right.  Most people who complain about teachers could not last one week doing their job.  I was lucky, I lasted two months.

How good a teacher one is depends largely on personality. You either have the innate ability in the form of patience, empathy and communication skills, or you do not. If you do you can certainly teach what you know, and high school grads know enough to teach most subjects, at least up to senior high. especially with the aid of a course outline. I could certainly walk into a school and teach the likes of spelling, math, history and geography. I do a lot of one on one training at work and I'm very good at it. And I didn't learn to be good in college. I know teachers go to university. But why do they?. To learn how to teach basic spelling, grammar, history and geography? What is the need for university for that? I know they go to teachers college, where the college attempts to teach those who lack the innate ability to teach to fake it, with varying degrees of success. I'm saying that if you have that ability you really don't need a higher education. And sufficient people have that ability we don't need to pay as much as we do.

Teacher's dedication is not, in too many cases, what it used to be.  Bizarre, but the decline started when our society stopped valuying a teacher's job.

By "valuing" I think you mean respecting. I think that happened when teachers go political with their union, and when parents began to discern a very obvious deficiency in the quality of the education their kids were getting.

[Bro]

I still cannot believe how some of you on this site can completely accept the damage the liberals have done to this country,and yet still find a way to rationalize that every problem Canada has is because of a Mike Harris tax cut.Did Mr. Harris have some divine power and make tax cuts in all of Canada?

Take Ontario for instance,the dalton regime has now announced that CANADIANS whose parents now make a combined income of 54,000.00 or more ,are not eligble for student loans,even though the tax collected from that 54,000.00 pays for all of the liberal anti Canadian ideals,and keeps their cashflow constant.At the same time,they will give loans and grants to immigrants,who have never paid a penny into the tax system,and help them in any way to obtain a higher education.

[CANADIEN]

Thank you Argus and Bro foir demonstrating one of the of the problems with our education system: looks like it doen't teach reading skills.

I can't see how using Ontario as an example of the dangers of tax cuts becomes either a denial it haooened elsewhere or a blame on Harris for liberal shortomings.

[Argus]

Thank you Argus and Bro foir demonstrating one of the of the problems with our education system:  looks like it doen't teach reading skills.

I can't see how using Ontario as an example of the dangers of tax cuts becomes either a denial it haooened elsewhere or a blame on Harris for liberal shortomings.

Perhaps your short attention span has left you unable to recall the title or opening position of this thread. It was a denunciation of conservatism. The segue into tax cutting was introd by someone who said conservatives live a lie for their foolish beliefs in small government and tax cuts. You then supported that theme by introducing Ontario and its "notorious" conservative premier Mike Harris, who, you claim, has almost destroyed the infrastructure of this province - though you aren't quite sure how. If you were not attempting to support the theme of conservative bashing you would have been wise to say so.

[CANADIEN]

The Liberals tell more lies to get elected than any other party in Canadian history,federally,and provincially,especially where Ontario is concerned.

I still can't find a majority of people in my daily travels who agree with them,or who voted for them.

Do they really represent the majority[36%]of Canadians

who voted for them,or should we get an independant inquiry into Elections Canada to see if tampering with votes was not an issue in the past federal election.

This is not an issue only I have thought .There are many other Canadians I have talked to,can't understand how

they were elected ,meaning it is hard to find anybody that will admit they voted liberal.Or is it that sadly ,most Canadians are liars like the political party they put in power?

Argus,

Above, quoted from Bro, is the exact text of the opening message on this thread.

Now, if you have no better thing to do than to tell me

what arguments I should address and how, let me know. That way, I'll be able to find better things to do with my time.

[caesar]

Thank you Argus and Bro foir demonstrating one of the of the problems with our education system: looks like it doen't teach reading skills.

I can't see how using Ontario as an example of the dangers of tax cuts becomes either a denial it haooened elsewhere or a blame on Harris for liberal shortomings.

You may be right. If you had been able to read your own short post; ypu could have corrected yopur typing errors and made it more understandable

for ; happened; shortcomings ; and your grammar re: "or a blame"??

[CANADIEN]

Indeed, ceasar.

ypu

yopur

[caesar]

I wasn't complaining about reading skills. hehe I know we all rush out our posts and make errors. I should have read my own. Just slightly bored not much happening here