Anti Pipeline Teaching Materials in BC

[Guest]

There are hundreds of thousands of oil and gas pipelines in North America. The reason they are there is everybody uses oil and gas for all kinds of things, including arguing against it on the internet. They aren't going away, and more will be built. We just have to make sure they are safe and clean and make sure any licensee responsible for a spill assumes all the costs of cleaning it up. That's what usually happens.

[Battletoads]

So? Natural resources are the backbone of revenues for all Canadian governments. All natural resource extraction comes with risks. It is irresponsible to teach any lesson on the environmental risks without including a discussion of how much our lifestyle depends on taking these risks.

Yes, and it's up to society to weight the risks versus benefits. The people of BC have resoundingly stated the benefits of such a pipeline, of which there are none, do not outweigh the risk of environmental catastrophe. The teachers of BC are right to explain why the people of BC have come to this conclusion.

[TimG]

The people of BC have resoundingly stated the benefits of such a pipeline, of which there are none, do not outweigh the risk of environmental catastrophe.

What you are talking about is risk assessment. Something which the public largely unable to do in a competent manner. That is why governments set up hearings to do these risk assessments in a logical and rational way. But the teachers union does not believe in the process. They have already decided what the answer should be and want to indoctrinate children.

[jacee]

What you are talking about is risk assessment. Something which the public largely unable to do in a competent manner. That is why governments set up hearings to do these risk assessments in a logical and rational way. But the teachers union does not believe in the process. They have already decided what the answer should be and want to indoctrinate children.

Ya we can't have kids researching and becoming knowledgeable about the risks that the corporate community is willing to take with their lives.

What is the corporate community so afraid of ... THE TRUTH? ... that they'll sacrifice children's health and future to make a buck today?

[TimG]

Ya we can't have kids researching and becoming knowledgeable about the risks.

Actually, that would be a great thing if the unit actually taught kids to properly assess risks. The problem is that is not what is happening. All this unit appears to be is a bunch of implausible scary stories designed to instill fear - not rational discourse.

[madmax]

Actually, that would be a great thing if the unit actually taught kids to properly assess risks. The problem is that is not what is happening. All this unit appears to be is a bunch of implausible scary stories designed to instill fear - not rational discourse.

It would be easier if industries/Corporations/ didn't engage in boldfaced lies and denials combined with a degree of incompetence.

That in itselfs opens the door to response.

Regardless if the industry acts responsibly, the bad actors carry the tar.

And people have a right to be concerned.

And a right to learn.

I ask that you go through the disputed literature of this thread and tell us what is online for download and non factual.

I got open ears.

[jacee]

Actually, that would be a great thing if the unit actually taught kids to properly assess risks. The problem is that is not what is happening. All this unit appears to be is a bunch of implausible scary stories designed to instill fear - not rational discourse.

Afraid of the truth?

http://www.bctf.ca/SocialJustice.aspx?id=27811&libID=27801

The 'other side' is ably represented by corporate communications, government and corporate media - ie, ...

It's going through, like it or not! Get out of the way!

Edited October 6, 2012 by jacee

[Wild Bill]

DDT may be the lesser of two evils in some places where malaria is an issue but it isn't 'safe' by any measure:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=ddt-use-to-combat-malaria

we are particularly concerned about the potential effects of continued DDT use on future generations."

Lesser of two evil? Jacee, that was precisely my point! Teachers and others at the time supported not having "evil DDT" AT ALL! They did not say "lesser of two evils in some places where malaria is an issue". They said NO DDT AT ALL!

Meanwhile, about half a million children have died EVRY YEAR since the DDT ban! That was 1972, so this is the 50th year. 50 times 500k = 25 million children DEAD that didn't have to die!

Boneheads! Murderous boneheads!

[Guest]

Afraid of the truth?

http://www.bctf.ca/SocialJustice.aspx?id=27811&libID=27801

The 'other side' is ably represented by corporate communications, government and corporate media - ie, ...

It's going through, like it or not! Get out of the way!

That quote in bold is a little harsh, but it's not far from the truth. The oil is coming out of the ground, and it is going to market. The issue is which market and how it gets there.

I wonder if the BCTF is telling the kids the truth, which is this:

We've got everything we need kids. Jobs, cars, houses, bank accounts, pensions, etc. Now we want you guys to learn to do without everything we have taken for granted so we can enjoy all that pension money.

[Argus]

Yes, and it's up to society to weight the risks versus benefits. The people of BC have resoundingly stated the benefits of such a pipeline, of which there are none, do not outweigh the risk of environmental catastrophe.

By 'catastrophe' I assume you're speaking about a tanker dumping its load offshore.

The risk of that is as close to 'nil' as to make no nevermind provided rules similar to those in operation in lower BC are in effect.

As for the 'no benefits', all economic activity benefits the community by providing immediate jobs, then secondary jobs, and taxes which go to a variety of projects including health care and education and public welfare.

[jacee]

Lesser of two evil? Jacee, that was precisely my point! Teachers and others at the time supported not having "evil DDT" AT ALL! They did not say "lesser of two evils in some places where malaria is an issue". They said NO DDT AT ALL!

Meanwhile, about half a million children have died EVRY YEAR since the DDT ban! That was 1972, so this is the 50th year. 50 times 500k = 25 million children DEAD that didn't have to die!

Boneheads! Murderous boneheads!

Ya the teachers did it!

[jacee]

That quote in bold is a little harsh, but it's not far from the truth. The oil is coming out of the ground, and it is going to market. The issue is which market and how it gets there.

I wonder if the BCTF is telling the kids the truth, which is this:

We've got everything we need kids. Jobs, cars, houses, bank accounts, pensions, etc. Now we want you guys to learn to do without everything we have taken for granted so we can enjoy all that pension money.

Ya the teachers did it.

[Guest]

Ya the teachers did it.

No, it's the union.

Most teachers are reasonably sensible. Those I've met anyway.

[jacee]

By 'catastrophe' I assume you're speaking about a tanker dumping its load offshore.

The risk of that is as close to 'nil' as to make no nevermind provided rules similar to those in operation in lower BC are in effect.

Do you have a source for that Argus?

As for the 'no benefits', all economic activity benefits the community by providing immediate jobs, then secondary jobs, and taxes which go to a variety of projects including health care and education and public welfare.

Then there's no danger in having the discussions is there?

[jacee]

No, it's the union.

Most teachers are reasonably sensible. Those I've met anyway.

The way you've written this, you are slamming the teachers.

I wonder if the BCTF is telling the kids the truth, which is this:

We've got everything we need kids. Jobs, cars, houses, bank accounts, pensions, etc. Now we want you guys to learn to do without everything we have taken for granted so we can enjoy all that pension money.

Unions do what the members vote to do, btw: They are democratic organizations.

It's pretty much impossible to slam teacher's unions without insulting teachers.

[Guest]

The way you've written this, you are slamming the teachers.

Unions do what the members vote to do, btw: They are democratic organizations.

It's pretty much impossible to slam teacher's unions without insulting teachers.

BCTF = BC Teachers Federation. Teachers don't get a choice to opt out. I was in the BCGEU for years and what they did bore no relation whatsoever to the wishes of the members.

Like most members of the BCGEU I worked with, most Teachers I have spoken with (an admittedly small number) just wish that the organization that represents them would get on with that task and leave the politics alone.

Did I say most members of the BCGEU I worked with? I meant all.

[jacee]

BCTF = BC Teachers Federation. Teachers don't get a choice to opt out. I was in the BCGEU for years and what they did bore no relation whatsoever to the wishes of the members.

Like most members of the BCGEU I worked with, most Teachers I have spoken with (an admittedly small number) just wish that the organization that represents them would get on with that task and leave the politics alone.

Did I say most members of the BCGEU I worked with? I meant all.

Then you vote those reps out.

Your comments re pensions were insulting to teachers, not BCTF.

Edited October 10, 2012 by jacee

[Guest]

Then you vote those reps out.

Your comments re pensions were insulting to teachers, not BCTF.

I don't know so much. I did say it was the BCTF that was passing on that message. I hope there are some teachers out there who are showing that they value their students education by providing both sides of the story.

That said, I hope the BCTF doesn't catch them. Hell hath no fury like a union scorned.

[Guest]

Then you vote those reps out.

Your comments re pensions were insulting to teachers, not BCTF.

But you are not wrong. I did say this, earlier. I should have chosen my words more carefully.

I find it ridiculous that the poor children of BC are being subjected to this kind of indoctrination.

One more reason why unions can be considered completely redundant today.

These are teachers. Teachers who are less interested in the education of their charges that they are in the perpetuation of their misguided ideological bent.

At least the material is optional, according to article. Those teachers who wish to get to work by other means than walking can avoid the hypocrisy.

[Fletch 27]

The teachers HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY to stand up to union bad practices and they don't. A good teacher was last seen in 1972. Sickening... It's all about the money.... And job security regardless of how poorly they perform, and additional time off. And banking of sick days.. Etc.etc. I have lost all respect for teachers in the provincial model... Private school is the only way for a child to get a world class education. Shame on the provincial teachers.... Shame

[jacee]

I should have chosen my words more carefully.

I'll accept that.