Senate Reform

[punked]

Of course he's accountable for Senate appointments; every known action of the Cabinet is open for scrutiny in the House of Commons, that's what our adversarial system of responsible government is all about (and why I lament the denigration and emaciation of parliament as an institution). The opposition can (metaphorically) drag the prime minister over the coals for any recommendation he made to the governor general, Senate appointments included. And not just in the House of Commons; opposition MPs can speak outside of the parliamentary precinct about the prime minister's actions; they certainly have about other people Harper has recommended for the Senate or his actions in relation to the Senate in general. This can all affect public opinion, which, of course, affects election outcomes (assuming the public is paying attention, which it should be).

I can't say I'm terribly impressed by Harper's choices for the upper chamber. I wonder, though, if he's making mediocre or blatantly partisan picks on purpose.

Nope he is just picking Senators the way they have always been picked. Political patronage and if they such who cares it is just the Senate anyway they have always been corrupt anyway right. No point of closing it down because they rubber stamp everything passed in the house anyway right? There is no better way to do it right/

[g_bambino]

Nope he is just picking Senators the way they have always been picked. Political patronage...

Perhaps. Perhaps the media has just been playing the patronage up since, well, it's Harper. But, Duffy, Brazeau, and some former Conservative campaign finance manager (?), all in a relatively short span of time?

No point of closing it down because they rubber stamp everything passed in the house anyway right?

No. Not right.

[punked]

Perhaps. Perhaps the media has just been playing the patronage up since, well, it's Harper. But, Duffy, Brazeau, and some former Conservative campaign finance manager (?), all in a relatively short span of time?

No. Not right.

Fine if that is the type of upper house you want fine. Don't pretend though that anything these people do ever has or ever will reflect on the PM.

[TheNewTeddy]

I don't. Far too random, which means one can never know what utter loon will end up there or what the composition of the Senate will be (i.e. how many loons in there at the same time), and, most of all, nobody is accountable for either.

I actually want loons in there. Many Canadians are loons, so why deny them a say?

[cybercoma]

Of course he's accountable for Senate appointments; every known action of the Cabinet is open for scrutiny in the House of Commons, that's what our adversarial system of responsible government is all about (and why I lament the denigration and emaciation of parliament as an institution). The opposition can (metaphorically) drag the prime minister over the coals for any recommendation he made to the governor general, Senate appointments included. And not just in the House of Commons; opposition MPs can speak outside of the parliamentary precinct about the prime minister's actions; they certainly have about other people Harper has recommended for the Senate or his actions in relation to the Senate in general. This can all affect public opinion, which, of course, affects election outcomes (assuming the public is paying attention, which it should be).

I can't say I'm terribly impressed by Harper's choices for the upper chamber. I wonder, though, if he's making mediocre or blatantly partisan picks on purpose.

I understand that route of accountability. However, that doesn't make Senators accountable to anyone or anything. They're not elected and the Prime Minister may take the heat, if the opposition is vocal enough about his appointments. However, I find it hard to believe that the general public would hold Harper accountable for the actions of Brazeau (merely an example). Moreover, what happens when a Senator that was appointed by a former Prime Minister does something supremely stupid. What if a Trudeau-appointed Senator flips his or her lid and needs to be held accountable. It seems to me that Senators are completely unaccountable for their own actions and cannot be held responsible for anything that they do. Am I right in that? Is the only recourse to paint the PM as incompetent in his/her appointments (recommendations to the GG)?

[g_bambino]

Don't pretend though that anything these people do ever has or ever will reflect on the PM.

Nobody has to pretend; the actions of senators clearly can reflect on the prime minister who recommended the particular senator's appointment. Even the actions of senators belonging to the prime minister's party can (somehow, though I'm not quite sure why) reflect on the prime minister.

[g_bambino]

I actually want loons in there. Many Canadians are loons, so why deny them a say?

Are we talking actual loons now, or still the metaphorical kind?

[g_bambino]

However, that doesn't make Senators accountable to anyone or anything.

Ah, but we weren't talking about the accounatbility of senators themselves; we were very specifically discussing the "someone who's accountable for Senate appointments".

I find it hard to believe that the general public would hold Harper accountable for the actions of Brazeau (merely an example). Moreover, what happens when a Senator that was appointed by a former Prime Minister does something supremely stupid. What if a Trudeau-appointed Senator flips his or her lid and needs to be held accountable.

No, I don't think anyone would hold Harper responsible for Brazeau's behaviour, merely for picking Brazeau as a senator.

I was wondering if you'd ask about the hypothetical scenario wherein a senator appointed on the advice of a previous prime minister does something inane, irresponsible, or offensive. In fact, I was hoping you wouldn't, since, besides the very specific Sectuion IV.31 of the Constitution Act 1867, I'm not really sure what the answer is!

I suspect there are, at least, rules imposed by the Senate itself, or by the caucuses therein; I read something about the Government House Leader for the Senate mulling about docking Brazeau's pay as punnishment for his absences.