Newfoundlander Posted March 4, 2012 Author Report Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) He's spoken pretty plainly about his policy views and they don't seem to be in the mainstream of the party. Though he has since been endorsed by a large union he has spoken about lessening the party's ties to unions. Edited March 4, 2012 by Newfoundlander Quote
j44 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Though he has since been endorse by a large union he has spoken about lessening the party's ties to unions. Yeah he came out pretty quick with that when the race started. Edit: Which kinda set the tone for his campaign. For me anyway. Edited March 4, 2012 by j44 Quote
WWWTT Posted March 4, 2012 Report Posted March 4, 2012 No, because voters in Quebec voted in a bloc like they always did and fell in love with Jack Layton. Current polls suggest the NDP would only win a handful of seats. People didn't all of the sudden become enamored with NDP policies. Yes, the NDP does have values that seem in line with many Quebecors, but one election does not establish that is why they voted en mass for them. The rest of the country only elected 6 more New Democrats outside of Quebec. It happens all the time. The party membership elects a leader, who by viture gets en endorsement of his or her value set even if there are slight shifts from the historical value set that party holds. Of course Muclair can't change the party wholesale, but he can certainly make changes to strike a better balance between the labour old guard forces in that party and attracting the political centre any party in this country needs in order to govern. Well, so far there hasn't been enough mobilization of these forces to elect an NDP government. I don't doubt there are people out there that are having a tough time, I don't doubt that at all. If the problem were as dire though as some would suggest, the NDP would be in government now wouldn't they? Maybe the fault then lies in the party for not effectively mobilizing that electorate then? Actually I believe outside of Quebec there was 8 additional MP's aswell there were many more votes that did not result in additional seats but did displace the liberals as the second choice!Don't be so quick to downplay the result of 30%!I know the conservatives aren't.Aswell I do not believe the reasons you set forth as to why the NDP has a tremendous success in Quebec.I know the conservatives and liberals are praying to God that the NDP success will be buried with Jack Layton.So from this point forward it is in my view you are a conservative/liberal despite any claim that you may make of being un-biased. As far as shifting more to the centre thats always bein there,the only difference is that Jack Layton was more vocal about it or you choose to ignore,pick whichever suits you. As far as being elected to form a government,it always take a little time and currently the wheels are in motion and the citizens of Canada are ready for real signifagant change! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
WWWTT Posted March 4, 2012 Report Posted March 4, 2012 He's not just one contender he is the front runner. And IMO he is the only one that will immediately attract outside voters to the party and help them in Quebec just by his presence. Is the 10 times better a fact? Don't count your chickens before they're hatched! As far as the 10 times better quote goes ask Bob Rae. WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
UofGPolitico Posted March 4, 2012 Report Posted March 4, 2012 Actually I believe outside of Quebec there was 8 additional MP's aswell there were many more votes that did not result in additional seats but did displace the liberals as the second choice!Don't be so quick to downplay the result of 30%!I know the conservatives aren't.Aswell I do not believe the reasons you set forth as to why the NDP has a tremendous success in Quebec.I know the conservatives and liberals are praying to God that the NDP success will be buried with Jack Layton.So from this point forward it is in my view you are a conservative/liberal despite any claim that you may make of being un-biased. As far as shifting more to the centre thats always bein there,the only difference is that Jack Layton was more vocal about it or you choose to ignore,pick whichever suits you. As far as being elected to form a government,it always take a little time and currently the wheels are in motion and the citizens of Canada are ready for real signifagant change! WWWTT You could be right, I could be right. Time will tell. I am not discounting the 30% per say, its just the majority of the NDP's increases in both seats and popular vote came within Quebec. The Quebec wave notwithstanding, the NDP would have only seen marginal increases and certainly would not have become the official opposition. The truth is the Quebec wave is not yet fully understood by anyone, and will take subsequent elections to fully understand it. I believe I have alluded to that. And one final point, I don't think I've ever made a claim of being unbiased, but I've never openly professed my support for any political party either. I do not hold a membership to any political party and never have. I will identify myself as a centre-right voter who has voted both Liberal and Conservative in the past. I believe in a socially progressive Canada, but we must balance that with smart and realistic economic policies. Quote
j44 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Posted March 4, 2012 Don't count your chickens before they're hatched! As far as the 10 times better quote goes ask Bob Rae. WWWTT I didn't say he is going to win and I don't care what quote you are referencing. And if you care about the party you should be paying attention to the debates and Nash's poor performances in them and not be blinded because she is spouting left-wing talking points. Quote
Newfoundlander Posted March 4, 2012 Author Report Posted March 4, 2012 I didn't say he is going to win and I don't care what quote you are referencing. And if you care about the party you should be paying attention to the debates and Nash's poor performances in them and not be blinded because she is spouting left-wing talking points. I'm surprised by Nash's level of support. Quote
UofGPolitico Posted March 4, 2012 Report Posted March 4, 2012 I'm surprised by Nash's level of support. The Topp camp had to go somewhere when they realized he was not the wagon to get hitched too. Makes perfect sense to me. Quote
Evening Star Posted March 4, 2012 Report Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Though he has since been endorsed by a large union he has spoken about lessening the party's ties to unions. OK, that's a fair point. I guess it depends on what you consider 'mainstream NDP views' to be by this point. Under Layton's leadership, I thought the party had already become a little less union-dominated and had moved away from traditional left positions on some issues, while moving more towards more modern 'progressive' policies on issues like green energy, LGBT rights, and foreign policy. I see Mulcair as very much in the same line. I consider Doer and Dexter to be mainstream New Democrats, by the way. Edit: On economics, I never really thought of the Layton-led NDP as being further left than the Pearson/Trudeau-era Liberals, a little to their right if anything. Edited March 4, 2012 by Evening Star Quote
cybercoma Posted March 4, 2012 Report Posted March 4, 2012 The Topp camp had to go somewhere when they realized he was not the wagon to get hitched too. Makes perfect sense to me. Topp is still sitting in second place. He still has a chance to win this. Quote
UofGPolitico Posted March 4, 2012 Report Posted March 4, 2012 Topp is still sitting in second place. He still has a chance to win this. In fundraising, but I was under the impression in terms of voting intention Nash was 2nd? According to most polls made public. Quote
Newfoundlander Posted March 4, 2012 Author Report Posted March 4, 2012 Topp is still sitting in second place. He still has a chance to win this. Says who? Quote
UofGPolitico Posted March 4, 2012 Report Posted March 4, 2012 Says who? Yeah, most polls have him polling at 12% I thought? Quote
cybercoma Posted March 4, 2012 Report Posted March 4, 2012 Debate starts now on CPAC and www.leadership2012.ca Quote
capricorn Posted March 4, 2012 Report Posted March 4, 2012 The truth is the Quebec wave is not yet fully understood by anyone, and will take subsequent elections to fully understand it. One fact we do know. The Bloc and its separatist agenda were repudiated massively by Quebecers, Quebecers didn't want to signal their disenchantment by voting for Harper or the Liberals and opted to vote NDP. Of course, Jack's charisma also played a large part in their electoral choice. It's possible that Quebecers were totally surprised to learn that their vote ended up catapulting the NDP into the official opposition's chair and are quite gleeful at this result. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
Newfoundlander Posted March 4, 2012 Author Report Posted March 4, 2012 Anyone else see the irony in Mario Dumont moderating? Quote
j44 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Posted March 4, 2012 So from this point forward it is in my view you are a conservative/liberal despite any claim that you may make of being un-biased. I know you'll say you didn't make the claim but you are probably the last person on here that should try to call people out for being biased. OK, that's a fair point. I guess it depends on what you consider 'mainstream NDP views' to be by this point. Under Layton's leadership, I thought the party had already become a little less union-dominated and had moved away from traditional left positions on some issues, while moving more towards more modern 'progressive' policies on issues like green energy, LGBT rights, and foreign policy. I see Mulcair as very much in the same line. I consider Doer and Dexter to be mainstream New Democrats, by the way. I agree Layton moved them more to the progressive area than the social democratic but I think Mulcair would move them more to the center. And you are right it does depend on what you consider the NDP mainstream. I should point out that I meant the mainstream of the party voters and not the party brass. I consider the voters more to the left and more social democrats and maybe even left-wing of social democrats. I consider Dexter more to the center of most of his voters. Topp is still sitting in second place. He still has a chance to win this. I'm still of the opinion that Topp would be terrible for the party. As I mentioned here before I think he would give them the Liberal disease from the last two elections. A smart leader but not a real or good leader. I could be proven wrong though. I wonder who might be the Gerald Kennedy for the NDP. Quote
Newfoundlander Posted March 4, 2012 Author Report Posted March 4, 2012 Yeah, most polls have him polling at 12% I thought? Dewar's poll had him tied with Cullen for fourth. Quote
WWWTT Posted March 4, 2012 Report Posted March 4, 2012 I didn't say he is going to win and I don't care what quote you are referencing. And if you care about the party you should be paying attention to the debates and Nash's poor performances in them and not be blinded because she is spouting left-wing talking points. Hey buddy I am an NDP member and will attending the upcoming election to vote for the next leader! Do you really believe I will buy your opinion on Peggys good performance? As far as I'm concerned your a conservative trying to spread anti Nash propaganda,guess the conservatives are very worried of her. WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
j44 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Posted March 4, 2012 Hey buddy I am an NDP member and will attending the upcoming election to vote for the next leader! Do you really believe I will buy your opinion on Peggys good performance? As far as I'm concerned your a conservative trying to spread anti Nash propaganda,guess the conservatives are very worried of her. WWWTT 1. Good for you. Your parents must be proud. 2. You don't have to 'buy' my opinion because I'm not trying to sell anything. It's just my opinion 3. You're paranoid. Where have I said anything that would say Im Conservative? Quote
WWWTT Posted March 4, 2012 Report Posted March 4, 2012 1. Good for you. Your parents must be proud. 2. You don't have to 'buy' my opinion because I'm not trying to sell anything. It's just my opinion 3. You're paranoid. Where have I said anything that would say Im Conservative? Do you really believe I have only read one or two of your comments? Why are you being so anemant about your views? WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
Newfoundlander Posted March 4, 2012 Author Report Posted March 4, 2012 Hey buddy I am an NDP member and will attending the upcoming election to vote for the next leader! Do you really believe I will buy your opinion on Peggys good performance? As far as I'm concerned your a conservative trying to spread anti Nash propaganda,guess the conservatives are very worried of her. WWWTT I've seen NDP members comment on her weak performances in debates and her trouble connecting with people in speeches. No need to attack non-Dippers for having the same opinions. Maybe you don't agree with that and good for you. Quote
Evening Star Posted March 4, 2012 Report Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) When they start talking proportional representation, I'm forced to remember that I'm not actually on board with NDP policy in a number of areas. Edited March 4, 2012 by Evening Star Quote
WWWTT Posted March 4, 2012 Report Posted March 4, 2012 I've seen NDP members comment on her weak performances in debates and her trouble connecting with people in speeches. No need to attack non-Dippers for having the same opinions. Maybe you don't agree with that and good for you. Ya and I also heard people say that Earnie Eves 2003 televised debate was strong.Where as I had said it was a wipe-out from the get go.Who was right? I'm just calling a spade a spade! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
cybercoma Posted March 4, 2012 Report Posted March 4, 2012 When they start talking proportional representation, I'm forced to remember that I'm not actually on board with NDP policy in a number of areas. They were talking mixed-PR. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.