will this study open the border to our beef

[caesar]

QUOTE: CBC today "EDMONTON - A new study from Harvard University says it's safe to reopen the U.S. border to live Canadian cattle. "

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Will it make any difference? This is not the first time the Americans have heard this. Their own experts have told them this long ago; still they drag their feet.

[Stoker]

Will it make any difference? This is not the first time the Americans have heard this. Their own experts have told them this long ago; still they drag their feet.

Why should the United States be doing Canada any favours?

[caesar]

Favours my butt; Free trade works two ways not one.

What an stupid remark.

[Stoker]

Favours my butt; Free trade works two ways not one.

What an stupid remark.

I'm not talking about free trade. I want to know why it is the United States should open their boarders to possable suspect Canadian beef? What do they owe us?

The same can be said about softwood lumber or the travel restrictions/warnings durning the SARS crisis.

[caesar]

OH GO SOAK YOUR HEAD. Listen to the experts. I think you are just here to troll. Either that or you really are ignorant.

[Argus]

QUOTE:  CBC today  "EDMONTON - A new study from Harvard University says it's safe to reopen the U.S. border to live Canadian cattle. "

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Will it make any difference?  This is not the first time the Americans have heard this.  Their own experts have told them this long ago; still they drag their feet.

Unlikely. I think at this stage it is being driven more by domestic poilitics in western states than an actual fear of contamination. In an election year, I doubt anything is going to happen. Why don't you ask if this will change the attitude of the Japanese, and the other countries which continue to ban Canadian beef. Everyone seems to forget about them.

[Stoker]

OH GO SOAK YOUR HEAD. Listen to the experts. I think you are just here to troll. Either that or you really are ignorant.

If anything, you're the troll............now let's be adults.

Now I'll ask again, why should the United States open their boarders to Canadian beef? Even if the beef is safe, why should they do us any favours?

[caesar]

It is NOT a favour; it is called free trade. duh

There is no difference between our beef and their beef; the trades are too intertwined. In fact Canada has had more stringent regulations and are more capable of tracing where the cattle came from. Something the USA is just now implementing. That is what their own commissioned experts and international experts have said.

[Stoker]

It is NOT a favour; it is called free trade. duh

Where does it say in the free trade agreement that the United States is forced to purchase our beef?

[caesar]

That is what free trade means; if we can find those who wish to purchase our beef they cannot stop the export without just cause. In fact, it seems we are forced to sell them power etc even when we do have just cause (environmental)

There are American Companies that do wish to purchase our beef; it is the beef producers that wish to prevent it so that the American public must buy the American meat at inflated prices.

[Stoker]

That is what free trade means; if we can find those who wish to purchase our beef they cannot stop the export without just cause. In fact, it seems we are forced to sell them power etc even when we do have just cause (environmental)

There are American Companies that do wish to purchase our beef; it is the beef producers that wish to prevent it so that the American public must buy the American meat at inflated prices.

So where does it say they have to purchase our beef?

[caesar]

they don't have to purchase it ; they have to allow us to offer it for sale in the usa to those who want to buy it

Go get a life troll

[KrustyKidd]

So where does it say they have to purchase our beef?

they don't have to purchase it ;  they have to allow us to offer it for sale in the usa to those who want to buy it

Go get a life troll

There yu go Stoker. Got your answer yet? Troll. From now on, don't ever ask a legitimate question more than once.

Ceasar, does that mean that it does not say that they have to purchase our beef? Only asking once here, try to be civil.

[caesar]

I am not an expert on free trade but it seems if we must allow the USA companies to carry out trade and make bids here it would be reciprocal.

Stoker makes out that it is a favour to allow us to offer our products for sale in the USA. irritating.

No one is forced to buy anything just allows us to offer it for sale. We have many industries south of the border who need our products for their survival, too.

[Stoker]

Now caesar, before I let you cross my bridge, answer me this then:

If Ford put out a pick-up truck that had problems with the brakes in our cold winters, is Canada forced to allow this truck to be sold within Canada before the problems are fixed up to Canadian government standards?

[Stoker]

As for any reference to "favours", do you think that if Canada and the United States had a better relationship, the boarders would be opened now to Canadian beef?

[caesar]

Of course not; what has that to do with anything. Our problems with beef are their problems too. We each have admitted to one diseased cow. It matters not the cows place of birth. There is absolutely no problem with Canada's beef trade that does not exist in the USA. In fact, we have better safeguards already in place. Remember the cow found in Canada did NOT go out to market. We need to make more changes but already we have a identification program in place. We had already banned many dubious material that is/was still allowed in the USA.

[caesar]

quote: "The U.S. has announced that it will immediately require the removal of Specified Risk Materials (SRMs) from cattle carcasses and that the country will implement a national cattle identification system. Canada already has both in place.

[Stoker]

Of course not; what has that to do with anything. Our problems with beef are their problems too.

Thats brilliant........I've got credit card debts (like most people), but that doesn't mean that I want another persons debts on top of that.

We each have admitted to one diseased cow.

And wasn't the Cow found in the States born in Alberta?

It matters not the cows place of birth.

Perhaps not to you, but it sure does to the Americans and if there were American born cattle with BSE found in Canada, it sure would mater to me.

There is absolutely no problem with Canada's beef trade that does not exist in the USA. In fact, we have better safeguards already in place. Remember the cow found in Canada did NOT go out to market. We need to make more changes but already we have a identification program in place. We had already banned many dubious material that is/was still allowed in the USA.

I'm sorry, but your going to have to provide proof to back-up your "claims".

First off, the Canadian cow did go to a rendering plant :

Fact, not rhetoric

As for the rest, let's see some facts first.

[caesar]

Stoker; listen to the experts; the American and the international experts; there is no difference between our beef and American beef.

The birth place of the animal is immaterial as this is an aquired disease and the cow Was in the USA for 6 years.

A rendering plant is not out to market for human consumption as was the case with the American cow.

I have nothing I need to prove to you.

If you are Canadian; you are a lousy one.

The decison to keep the borders closed to Canadian beef other than that now allowed is POLITICAL not a safety issue.

[Stoker]

Stoker; listen to the experts; the American and the international experts; there is no difference between our beef and American beef.

The birth place of the animal is immaterial as this is an aquired disease and the cow Was in the USA for 6 years.

Do you have a link to one or two of these experts?

A rendering plant is not out to market for human consumption as was the case with the American cow.

I wasn't talking about the American cow.

I have nothing I need to prove to you.

You do if you want to maintain some resemblance of creditablity with your posts.

If you are Canadian; you are a lousy one.

Sticks and stones may brake my bones.......

The decison to keep the borders closed to Canadian beef other than that now allowed is POLITICAL not a safety issue.

I've been saying that it's been POLITICAL since the start The reason being the States is not doing us the "favor" of opening their boarders to our beef (or the way they reacted to the SARS crisis or softwood lumber) is the POLITICAL reaction to us not supporting them in Iraq.

[idealisttotheend]

Where I come from Stoker one does not consider it a favour to ask a neighbour to act fairly with them even if they don't agree on all things. It is simply the proper way to conduct yourself.

Nor is it considered a "favour" to act within both the letter and the spirit of the law. It is simply expected that all parties will act within the laws they agreed too even if they have different beliefs.

NAFTA ruling against US on lumber, these tribunals constantly find against the US but they keep imposing tarrifs etc.

If one respects oneself than one stands up for one's rights when one is treated unfairly and does not simply change their beliefs to match the offending party's beliefs or balme themselves for not being accomadating enough.

[Stoker]

Where I come from Stoker one does not consider it a favour to ask a neighbour to act fairly with them even if they don't agree on all things. It is simply the proper way to conduct yourself.

What Happend first?

1. Canada refuses to take part in Iraq

-OR-

2. United States closes boarder to Canadian beef

As for the rest of your post........Have you ever heard of the right of might?

[idealisttotheend]

What Happend first?

1. Canada refuses to take part in Iraq

-OR-

2. United States closes boarder to Canadian beef

Truthfully I don't remember but I would assume it is 1.

That still proves nothing. I mean the border closure was fue to the case of BSE and it staying closed could have more to due with the American beef lobby than geopolitical considerations of the white house.

As for the rest of your post........Have you ever heard of the right of might?

Indeed I have. In the end that it all that it comes down to, but I hope we are very far from the end. However we have civilization and that means that people (and countries) solve their differences through political, legal and judicial means not through violence.

Surely you are not suggesting that the US will or ought to invade us because we did not send token forces to help invade Iraq?

[Stoker]

That still proves nothing. I mean the border closure was fue to the case of BSE and it staying closed could have more to due with the American beef lobby than geopolitical considerations of the white house.

Let's say Canada did support the Iraq war.......What do you think the reaction would have been within the white house? Positive or negative?

So let's fast forward to summer time. We find a case of BSE. Everybody, including the States closes their boarders to Canadian beef. After all the associated herds have been tested and given a clean bill of health, uncle Sam remembers his big pal up North that is supporting the war in Iraq and makes sure to not drag his feet on opening the boarder to Canadian beef once it's proven to be safe.

Now is the above scenario out of the question? What do you think mean more to the Bush administration, the War on terror/Iraq (and bringing more countries onboard with it) or some ranchers lobby groups?

EDIT

Forgot to address this part :

Indeed I have. In the end that it all that it comes down to, but I hope we are very far from the end. However we have civilization and that means that people (and countries) solve their differences through political, legal and judicial means not through violence.

Surely you are not suggesting that the US will or ought to invade us because we did not send token forces to help invade Iraq?

No I'm not suggesting anything like that....what I'm saying is that we need the United States more then they need us. Added to the fact that since the United States is the world's only Superpower, they get to decide the "house rules".

Any form of trade "protest" that we might try on the United States, well it might sting them, will most likely do more damage to us. Like the saying goes, don't cut off your nose to spite your face.........