First Nations peoples are being eradicated by

[olp1fan]

WHy does the government send an accountant when they should be sending engineers and doctors?

Because the problem is mismanaged money ..fix that problem and then you can fix all of the others

[olp1fan]

yet you think you can put a pricetag on their worth. What a joke.

Quite frankly she belongs in prison, she's stolen from her own people while they live in miserable conditions

[cybercoma]

Because the problem is mismanaged money ..fix that problem and then you can fix all of the others

Prove it. When it comes to Attawapiskat, all of the book are open, have been open, were audited regularly and the reserve was under co-management for 10 years. If the money has been mismanaged for that long, the federal government ought to have known about it. The auditor generals' reports that have come out over the last 10 years or so, also indicate that there is a systemic problem with funding. If you've got proof that there is a systemic problem with money being mismanaged, then post it. I'm sure there are cases where this has happened, like in NB where they were approved funding for boats, the chiefs sold them, and kept the cash. However, you're making the claim that hundreds of Reserves are facing these conditions due to misappropriation of funds (Chiefs dumping it into their own accounts). So show me the mountains of evidence that indicates this. Otherwise, you're a liar and I'll assume that former Indian Affairs Ministers like Chuck Strahl and the Auditor Generals that have reported on the issue are right and you're just a racist punk that's blaming the victim to suit his bias.

[cybercoma]

Quite frankly she belongs in prison, she's stolen from her own people while they live in miserable conditions

You don't even know what she's worth. You can't say. You have no idea what the job entails or how much someone in that position should be paid. First Nations are living in Third World conditions, they're the responsibility of the federal government, yet Stephen Harper drives a nice car, wears nice clothes, and probably has a pretty nice house. You don't say, however, that Harper has stolen from his people while they live in miserable conditions, but that's exactly what has happened. It's his responsibility to ensure they have enough money to manage their communities effectively. They haven't done that and you've done nothing to prove that the reserves had more than enough money. You just make assumptions to suit your bias. Attawapiskat's book are open, you can start with them. Go.

[olp1fan]

Prove it. Otherwise, you're a liar and I'll assume that former Indian Affairs Ministers like Chuck Strahl and the Auditor Generals that have reported on the issue are right and you're just a racist punk that's blaming the victim to suit his bias.

I've proven it to myself with all of the articles and statistics I've read, and it stays as my position even if an oaf like yourself screams at me on the internet and calls me racist

[olp1fan]

First Nations are living in Third World conditions, they're the responsibility of the federal government, yet Stephen Harper drives a nice car, wears nice clothes, and probably has a pretty nice house. You don't say, however, that Harper has stolen from his people while they live in miserable conditions, but that's exactly what has happened.

That is your opinion, in your mind you are right and in my mind I am right

[cybercoma]

I've proven it to myself with all of the articles and statistics I've read, and it stays as my position even if an oaf like yourself screams at me on the internet and calls me racist

So you've got nothing then? Ok.

[TimG]

First Nations are living in Third World conditions, they're the responsibility of the federal government

This captures the entire issue. I spent some time going through the finacial records of Attawapiskat and those of small towns (FWIW - all the Attawapiskat money seems to be accounted for). The trouble with Attawapiskat is it has no revenues of its own - all money it receives comes from tax payers elsewhere. Even the smallest town collects property taxes even if they are subsidized by higher levels of government.

IOW - people should not insisting on living in places where there no economic justification for human habitation. If the reserves can generate their own revenue through taxation (just like all city governments do) then people living elsewhere would not be so worried about whether this money is being "spent right". As long as reserve are basically welfare cases then there will always be questions about where the money is going.

Edited December 22, 2011 by TimG

[cybercoma]

This captures the entire issue. I spent some time going through the finacial records of Attawapiskat and those of small towns (FWIW - all the Attawapiskat money seems to be accounted for). The trouble with Attawapiskat is it has no revenues of its own - all money it receives comes from tax payers elsewhere. Even the smallest town collects property taxes even if they are subsidized by higher levels of government.

IOW - people should not insisting on living in places where there no economic justification for human habitation. If the reserves can generate their own revenue through taxation (just like all city governments do) then people living elsewhere would not be so worried about whether this money is being "spent right".

You didn't go through those numbers very well then. There's an entire section in their books of revenues that don't come from the government. IOW - you're a liar.

As for your statement that they shouldn't insist on living there. We put them there when the Reserve system was created so we could take their lands. They're insisting on having their own lands, as was the agreement made generations ago with the Crown. An agreement that colonial government and the government of Canada had simply ignored. They didn't choose to be stuck where they are with nowhere else to go. Those are the parcels of land we stuck them on or left for them. Now that they're struggling there, your answer is: tough shit... pack up your culture and hertiage and join the rest of us.

[olp1fan]

They didn't choose to be stuck where they are with nowhere else to go. Those are the parcels of land we stuck them on or left for them. Now that they're struggling there, your answer is: tough shit... pack up your culture and hertiage and join the rest of us.

People come from poor countries all of the time and find work here and make a life...sure, its hard but its not near as impossible as you make it seem

I left a culture I was in for 18 years ...very tough but I did it and I have a good paying job and an okay apartment

I am doing fine, I don't see why they can't do the same

[cybercoma]

People come from poor countries

They come from here. They're in OUR country. Where would you suggest the emigrate to?

I left a culture ... I am doing fine, I don't see why they can't do the same

Cultural genocide. That's why.

[TimG]

You didn't go through those numbers very well then. There's an entire section in their books of revenues that don't come from the government. IOW - you're a liar.

A few $100,000 but there is this category called 'other'. I dont know where that revenue comes from.

They didn't choose to be stuck where they are with nowhere else to go. Those are the parcels of land we stuck them on or left for them. Now that they're struggling there, your answer is: tough shit... pack up your culture and heritage and join the rest of us.

Struggling? Please explain to me what kind of housing they would have if they actually wanted to preserve their "heritage"? Indoor heating and plumbing would not be part of that equation yet they are demanding that.

If they want the benefits of a modern lifestyle they are going to have to play by the rules of the modern society. If that means leaving the wilderness and joining the rest of us in the cities working for a living then so be it.

There is no society any where where the original inhabitants can sit back and watch TV will collecting "revenue" from others working the land. Too many natives in this country are arrogant victim mongers that are simply looking for a free lunch.

Edited December 22, 2011 by TimG

[olp1fan]

They come from here. They're in OUR country. Where would you suggest the emigrate to?

Cultural genocide. That's why.

Dude, mothers who are fleeing their abusive partners are in a much more difficult position than Natives and yet they somehow manage

so do people who move away from home to a distant city all by themselves...that is difficult too

nothing is stopping these free loaders from making a better life for themselves

[Jerry J. Fortin]

We came, we saw, and we conquered. That is the history of the event, however in the name of political correctness, its all OUR fault. We did not do the deed, we are getting stuck with the tab.

Yet it is time to have a frank discussion about the First Nations peoples, within our own groups, and it is time to take that to a conversation with the First Nations.

Personally I suggest that they simply leave the reserves and join us as citizens of this nation.

[cybercoma]

Struggling? Please explain to me what kind of housing they would have if they actually wanted to preserve their "heritage"? Indoor heating and plumbing would not be part of that equation yet they are demanding that.

This is just nonsense that borders on racism. First of all, you don't get to define what their culture is for them. But seeing as you have, your definition falls awfully close to racist ignorance. Preserving our culture doesn't mean living like we did in the 18th-century, so I don't know what makes you think that's how the First Nations should live, other than the fact that you quite obviously view Canada's aboriginal communities as primitve savages that can't take care of themselves.

[TimG]

This is just nonsense that borders on racism.

What is racist is your constant whinging about how natives are "special" and entitled to sit back a drink beer and watch TV at our expense because 100 years ago people did bad things to their ancestors.

Preserving our culture doesn't mean living like we did in the 18th-century

We are talking basic economics. If they can support themselves while living in the middle of nowhere then all the power to them. But if they can't support themselves then they are going to have to move and figure out a way to maintain their culture where ever they go. People do that all of the time. Edited December 22, 2011 by TimG

[cybercoma]

Why do you think you can anull agreements that they made with the government? Is there a statue of limitations on them? Does the Charter expire at some point in the future? Perhaps you could write a letter to President Obama and let him know that the US Constitution was written a really long time ago and they shouldn't be following some document written hundreds of years ago.

And you're a racist jerk for characterizing aboriginal peoples as doing nothing other than drinking beer and watching TV, while collecting a government cheque. Do you even know how much Natives in Attawapiskat get from the government? Go look up how big their cheque is.

[TimG]

Why do you think you can anull agreements that they made with the government?

Please explain how any agreement with the Attawapiskat would turn their patch of wilderness into a self-sustaining community. Seems to me that this is just an excuse to avoid making the tough decisions like moving to where there is actually work.

And you're a racist jerk for characterizing aboriginal peoples as doing nothing other than drinking beer and watching TV, while collecting a government cheque.

I think that is a fair characterization for people living in the middle of no where demanding that the government provide them with free housing. The fact is there are MANY native bands who are doing really well but they live in areas where there are real economic opportunities. I may grumble about their tax free status but they are working for the money they earn developing successful businesses. Edited December 22, 2011 by TimG

[charter.rights]

Please explain how any agreement with the Attawapiskat would turn their patch of wilderness into a self-sustaining community. Seems to me that this is just an excuse to avoid making the tough decisions like moving to where there is actually work.

I think that is a fair charaterization for people living in the middle of no where demanding that the government provide them with free housing.

There is work just 60 miles away in a diamond mine on their land. Many people from Atawapiskat work there and earn a decent living. However, the deal they struck was for deBeers to provide infrastructure - water and sewer to homes - and they have reneged on the agreement so far. However, the royalties they derive from the mine which is on their traditional territory are paid to the Province of Ontario. They get little.

The government is obligated by law to provide housing and all the support services they require. They do not have to move and with future hydro projects, and other mining ventures they will be able to find their own economic model. That however, will not relieve the government of their obligations. That is a fact people like you have trouble coming to grips with. We use their land and in return we take care of their needs.

[cybercoma]

How much is their government cheque, Tim?

[cybercoma]

There is work just 60 miles away in a diamond mine on their land. Many people from Atawapiskat work there and earn a decent living. However, the deal they struck was for deBeers to provide infrastructure - water and sewer to homes - and they have reneged on the agreement so far. However, the royalties they derive from the mine which is on their traditional territory are paid to the Province of Ontario. They get little.

The government is obligated by law to provide housing and all the support services they require. They do not have to move and with future hydro projects, and other mining ventures they will be able to find their own economic model. That however, will not relieve the government of their obligations. That is a fact people like you have trouble coming to grips with. We use their land and in return we take care of their needs.

Aside from that, the government isn't even meeting the basic social welfare criteria that they have set out for all Canadians. Nowhere else in Canada would they allow a town to get this bad. Period. You can say the government provides them with money, but money is provided to every other town as well. When they find themselves in a "state of emergency" the government ponies up more support to address the emergency and usually launches an investigation to ensure it doesn't happen again. Not for the First Nations though. They can piss off, apparently.

[TimG]

There is work just 60 miles away in a diamond mine on their land. Many people from Atawapiskat work there and earn a decent living. However, the deal they struck was for deBeers to provide infrastructure - water and sewer to homes - and they have reneged on the agreement so far.

Ok - Can you explain why deBeers would do such a thing? What explanation do they offer? (I am not asking if you agree with it - I just want to know why they think they do not have any obligation).

However, the royalties they derive from the mine which is on their traditional territory are paid to the Province of Ontario. They get little.

They never worked for royalty money. Someone else took the risk, found the diamonds and then DeBeers invested their own capital to dig up and sell these diamonds.

The government is obligated by law to provide housing and all the support services they require.

Yes I am aware the fact that you believe that all natives are entitled to drink beer watch TV while being supported by people who actually work for a living. Quite a few people do not agree with your presumption of entitlement. Edited December 22, 2011 by TimG

[TimG]

Aside from that, the government isn't even meeting the basic social welfare criteria that they have set out for all Canadians. Nowhere else in Canada would they allow a town to get this bad.

That is because no one else would insist on staying in a town with no economic prospects.

[olp1fan]

That is because no one else would insist on staying in a town with no economic prospects.

Yep, gotta help yourself these days if you wanna keep survivn'

[Guest Manny]

Yep, gotta help yourself these days if you wanna keep survivn'

That's what we "white people" are really good at, helping ourselves by taking from others.

De Beers Canada officially opened Victor Diamond Mine, Ontario's first ever diamond mine July 26, 2008. De Beers has spent approximately $1 billion on construction of the mine. It is located 90 kilometres west of Attawapiskat on First Nation traditional land. Although it is acknowledged that the mine is on Attawapiskat traditional land, the royalties from Victor Mine, flow to the Province of Ontario, not Attawapiskat First Nation.

Not even a percentage shared. Nice...