Canada at war with Iran

[Guest Derek L]

you indirectly suggested israel is in the wrong to deny the palestinians aid, i know it was a screw up on your part

but its still funny, you've been contradicting yourself all day

Where have I? Aren't you saying we shouldn't

Involve ourselves in the affairs of others, but It’s ok for Iran to do so?

[olp1fan]

You're pure ignorant.......You suggested the west doesn’t involve itself in Iran. But it’s ok for Iran to involve itself in Israel for the sake of the Palestinians.

Do you flip a coin to decide your principles?

See, you know what is wrong with people such as yourself? You support a regime which turns away food, aid, clothes, goods, from an oppressed people such as the Palestinians and you try to justify that you are the good guys

I hope you meet Karma one day

BTW I do not support Iran

I'm not brainwashed into thinking either side are good

Edited November 13, 2011 by olp1fan

[Guest Derek L]

See, you know what is wrong with people such as yourself? You support a regime which turns away food, aid, clothes, goods, from an oppressed people such as the Palestinians and you try to justify that you are the good guys

I hope you meet Karma one day

So it’s ok for Iran to involve itself in Israel?

[dre]

They’ve involved themselves in supplying arms in both Iraq and Afghanistan, to say nothing about their continued support for Hezbollah.

And I'll add, why was WW I "stupid"? Wasn't Germany invading

Countries “like that”…….they even reused the Von Schlieffen Plan

They’ve involved themselves in supplying arms in both Iraq and Afghanistan, to say nothing about their continued support for Hezbollah.

Theyre support for Hezbollah is completely expented and understandable. Its the main political party in Lebanon that represents the Shia Muslims there. And its completely normal for a middle tier regional player like Iran to support various proxies. We do the exact same thing.

This would not be defensive war, it would be an elective war of aggression meant to maintain the current balance of power in the ME. Before Canada should support such an adventure we need to take a real carefull look at how well it lines up with our own national security/ foreign policy goals, and whether or not it promises any kind of ROI on what we spend.

So far I just dont see a compelling national interest for Canada here. No reason at all to risk Canadian blood or treasure.

[Wild Bill]

Derek L. your generation spied on the greatest Canadian of all time Tommy Douglas

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/story/2011/11/12/sk-tommy-douglas-files-cp-1112.html

your generation was the most delusional, paranoid generation ever

You really don't know your history very well, do you? You have shallow, cartoon impressions of your "heroes", unable to see their faults - only their virtues.

Tommy Douglas was also a big supporter of eugenics. I hope you don't or never will have a family member born with a physical or mental birth defect.

Tommy Douglas would have had it "euthanized", which is a nice word for "killed".

Don't believe me? Go look it up for yourself, which is a habit you really should practise more often.

[Guest Derek L]

Theyre support for Hezbollah is completely expented and understandable. Its the main political party in Lebanon that represents the Shia Muslims there. And its completely normal for a middle tier regional player like Iran to support various proxies. We do the exact same thing.

This would not be defensive war, it would be an elective war of aggression meant to maintain the current balance of power in the ME. Before Canada should support such an adventure we need to take a real carefull look at how well it lines up with our own national security/ foreign policy goals, and whether or not it promises any kind of ROI on what we spend.

So far I just dont see a compelling national interest for Canada here. No reason at all to risk Canadian blood or treasure.

Isn’t Iran’s support of Hezbollah elective?

[olp1fan]

So it’s ok for Iran to involve itself in Israel?

why is it okay for Israel to deny aid to Palestine?

[Guest Derek L]

why is it okay for Israel to deny aid to Palestine?

I never said it was or wasn’t…….But, again, you’re fine with Iran involving itself with the affairs of other nations?

[Guest Peeves]

considering most of the world hates Israel and I can't blame

Most of the Western world hates Islamic terrorism far more. Iran supports terrorists, and our, Canada's, enemies, Hamas, (on our terrorist list), they threaten Israeli's (both Jews and Arab) with annihilation.

Further, the Muslims of differing Islamic sects also fear Iran's nuke capability. Seems to me if we are to pick sides a democracy should be our choice, and Israel is a democracy.

And I think you exaggerate. When you say "most of the wold hates Israel" and you can't blame them, you might just add, put more succinctly, most of the anti-Semites and the Islamists hate the israeli's and I agree with them.

Maybe?

That might better sum up your view feelings and position on Jews and Israel?. Just a thought.

[dre]

So it’s ok for Iran to involve itself in Israel?

No its not really ok. In a perfect world jews and arabs would behave like adults, and stop endlessly provoking and killing each other. But they wont. This has been going on for most of the last century and will go on for most of the NEXT century as well. Once the decision is made that fixing the problems in the middle east through military invtervention is Canadas foreign policy, then we open the door to a whole SERIES of wars and intervention over there that will probably never end.

And at the end of the day we just dont have the money. Our government cant even fund its own day to day operation without borrowing money.

[olp1fan]

I never said it was or wasn’t…….But, again, you’re fine with Iran involving itself with the affairs of other nations?

I've said multiple times I'm not on anyones side, it makes no sense for Canada we have no interests or nothing to gain

this is purely harper and his government

[dre]

Isn’t Iran’s support of Hezbollah elective?

How does that have any bearing on whether theres a compelling reason for Canada to fight a war of aggression with borrowed money?

The reason tax payers fund the military is because its supposed to be used in a way thats conducive or furthering our own interests. Why would we even be HAVING a conversation on whether or not our military and our money would be used in this way?

Especially when we know that wars steal from Canadians through inflation.

[Guest Derek L]

No its not really ok. In a perfect world jews and arabs would behave like adults, and stop endlessly provoking and killing each other. But they wont. This has been going on for most of the last century and will go on for most of the NEXT century as well. Once the decision is made that fixing the problems in the middle east through military invtervention is Canadas foreign policy, then we open the door to a whole SERIES of wars and intervention over there that will probably never end.

And at the end of the day we just dont have the money. Our government cant even fund its own day to day operation without borrowing money.

I agree with your sentiments on ROI, and as I stated in one of our various middle eastern threads, I highly doubt the west will directly involve itself in any potential conflict with Iran, other than perhaps escorting foreign flag tankers through the Gulf. But the disruption to the Persian Gulf’s oil supply is a direct threat to the World’s economy.

[olp1fan]

Most of the Western world hates Islamic terrorism far more. Iran supports terrorists, and our, Canada's, enemies, Hamas, (on our terrorist list), they threaten Israeli's (both Jews and Arab) with annihilation.

Further, the Muslims of differing Islamic sects also fear Iran's nuke capability. Seems to me if we are to pick sides a democracy should be our choice, and Israel is a democracy.

And I think you exaggerate. When you say "most of the wold hates Israel" and you can't blame them, you might just add, put more succinctly, most of the anti-Semites and the Islamists hate the israeli's and I agree with them.

Maybe?

That might better sum up your view feelings and position on Jews and Israel?. Just a thought.

jesus christ, the iran myth that they'll wipe iran off the face of the earth is just that a myth, it has been debunked

how many times do i have to post that article for that to get through your heads

the west creates their own enemies it seems.. i mean we're over there blowing shit up, killing families and we call the people who want revenge terrorists

it seems like some people don't have the capacity to see that its not all black and white

[Guest Derek L]

I've said multiple times I'm not on anyones side, it makes no sense for Canada we have no interests or nothing to gain

this is purely harper and his government

You brought up the Palestinians as a defence in Iran’s use of proxies in Israel……the ultimate contradiction.

If Iran can rightfully use proxies to further their foreign policy, why can’t we?

[olp1fan]

You brought up the Palestinians as a defence in Iran’s use of proxies in Israel……the ultimate contradiction.

If Iran can rightfully use proxies to further their foreign policy, why can’t we?

with what money? we're broke dude

the cons PROMISED to get us into surplus by the next election

how will they if we have to fund wars/

Edited November 13, 2011 by olp1fan

[dre]

I agree with your sentiments on ROI, and as I stated in one of our various middle eastern threads, I highly doubt the west will directly involve itself in any potential conflict with Iran, other than perhaps escorting foreign flag tankers through the Gulf. But the disruption to the Persian Gulfs oil supply is a direct threat to the Worlds economy.

Yup and thats a huge reason to oppose this kind of intervention. A large percentage of the worlds oil needs to travel by tanker along the Iranian coast for a few hundred miles in the Strait of Tiran. These ships are extremely vulnerable and the only way you could guarantee their safety would be to invade and occupy a strip of land along the Iranian coast, or completely change the regime there.

So its highly likely that this isnt going to be a simple mission requiring a few airstrikes. Its likely to cause a regional conflict and massive instability, both of which run directly counter to our national economic interests. The global economy is a pretty delicate beast right now, and we are experiencing a very soft recovery. It wouldnt take much to send it into another tailspin. A sharp spike in oil prices is about the last thing we need right now.

Edited November 13, 2011 by dre

[Guest Derek L]

with what money? we're broke dude

The world was “broke” in the 1930s also……..Would we be better off with the price of oil skyrocketing?

[olp1fan]

The world was “broke” in the 1930s also……..Would we be better off with the price of oil skyrocketing?

I'm not sure if you have thought about this but we could just refine our own oil and like use it here and sell a bit on the side..

[Guest Derek L]

Yup and thats a huge reason to oppose this kind of intervention. A large percentage of the worlds oil needs to travel by tanker along the Iranian coast for a few hundred miles in the Strait of Tiran. These ships are extremely vulnerable and the only way you could guarantee their safety would be to invade and occupy a strip of land along the Iranian coast, or completely change the regime there.

So its highly likely that this isnt going to be a simple mission requiring a few airstrikes. Its likely to cause a regional conflict and massive instability, both of which run directly counter to our national economic interests.

The "Tanker War" was a “successful” approach for the world during the Iraq/Iran war in the 80s.

[Guest Peeves]

why is it okay for Israel to deny aid to Palestine?

!. There is no Palestine, the Arabs turned that choice down when Israel was created. They continue to turn down any plan. In fact Hamas, (Gaza) and Fatah (West Bank), are completely at odds with each other, murder each other and would never agree to each others agreement with Israel.

2. They are in a war declared against them by Arabs, 'Palestinians' whose charter expressly denies a state of Israel indicates the goal to eliminate Israelis.

3. How many countries give aid to enemies who avow their mandate is to annihilate your country?

Having been attacked by Arab nations and threatened with extinction by Iranian clerical leaders, you expect Israel to be the one to risk everything?

http://www.iris.org.il/images/arabwld3.gif

Certainly Israel has every right to be selective in allowing any 'aid to an avowed enemy.

I don't think Jews will just allow another few million to be eradicated because some want them gone.

Edited November 13, 2011 by Peeves

[Guest Derek L]

I'm not sure if you have thought about this but we could just refine our own oil and like use it here and sell a bit on the side..

Do you understand what a global market means and how Oil is priced?

If Iran attempted to close off the Gulf next week, what good would your approach have?

[olp1fan]

3. How many countries give aid to enemies who avow their mandate is to annihilate your country?

South Korea lawl

And anyway, other countries try to send aid to Gaza and are turned back by the Israelis

[olp1fan]

Do you understand what a global market means and how Oil is priced?

If Iran attempted to close off the Gulf next week, what good would your approach have?

We could make up our own prices, if you can illegally invade countries surely you can do whatever the f*** you want

Edited November 13, 2011 by olp1fan

[dre]

you might just add, put more succinctly, most of the anti-Semites and the Islamists hate the israeli's and I agree with them.

No that dog just doesnt hunt. Modern nation states are not "races". They are geopolitical entities that act based on self interest, often in a way thats detrimental to the interests of others (thats why we have wars).

One can have a negative view on the actions of a nation state without having a corresponding view of the ethnic groups that make up that state. Following your logic western forces much have been "racist" against serbians? Or is it more likely they were just against the actions of the Serbian state?