Liberal Party Rebuilding

[Evening Star]

BTW the numbers for last quarter were the ones for the election months, the Liberals raised more because no one thought the NDP were going to have a break through. Now the NDP hold more seats it will be harder for them to fund raise.

Ha, even I gave a little to the Liberals at the beginning of the campaign.

[Smallc]

His info is actually incorrect:

That amount for 2011 is more than twice that of the Liberals, who are the second place party in terms of fundraising. The Grits raised $1.3-million from 17,858 contributions in the third quarter, bringing their 2011 total up to $7.6-million from 68,372 donations.

While the NDP usurped the Liberals as Canada’s Official Opposition, the party still has work to do on the fundraising front. Its third quarter numbers show $880,766.07 was raised from 14,048 contributions. For 2011 to date, the NDP has raised $5.9-million from 54,349 contributions.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/tory-fundraising-juggernaut-outpaces-all-other-parties-combined/article2222839/?utm_medium=Feeds%3A%20RSS%2FAtom&utm_source=Politics&utm_content=2222839

[Newfoundlander]

Brain Topp is going win that seat. Wont even be a contest, I think the Liberals have already gone with the loser from the last two elections.

I didn't realize he was nominated, the last I heard he wouldn't commit to running. He should have a good time running in a by election and running for the leadership simultaneously.

[punked]

His info is actually incorrect:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/tory-fundraising-juggernaut-outpaces-all-other-parties-combined/article2222839/?utm_medium=Feeds%3A%20RSS%2FAtom&utm_source=Politics&utm_content=2222839

No my info is correct. You said quarter not year. The last fund raising quarter which is the one you were referring to was the election quarter one in which the Liberals who are always seen as the alternative to sitting governments always do well. However if you look at them year over year the Liberals raised 98% of what they usually do that quarter while the NDp raised 118% of what they do.

However the Liberals had 1,260,536 donations in the max donors which is around 20% of all their donations, while the NDP only brought in 299,893 which was only 6% of their total donations. Those people making these large donations are power players in politics and they don't want to go with a loser. Your summation the Liberals somehow being better off because in an Election they lost big time they raised more money then the party that ate all their seats is mis guided and anyone can see that. Fact is over half the NDPs donations in in the under 200 dollars range the Conservatives as well but the Liberals aren't in this category and are going to pay for it.

If your fund raising depends on you being the government in waiting and you lose that title you are going to lose fund raising SmallC. You seem to be twisting the numbers to provide a narrative you would like instead of the one which exists.

We wont even go into the fact the Liberals run their organization with twice the over head of the other two parties so they need to raise a whole lot more to stay competitive because somewhere along the line they lost their grassroots and everything has to be done by paid party organizers.

Edited November 6, 2011 by punked

[punked]

I didn't realize he was nominated, the last I heard he wouldn't commit to running. He should have a good time running in a by election and running for the leadership simultaneously.

Haven't heard of a by election being called. He will run and he will win as long as Harper lets the Leadership race play out which I think he will. Harper might not be the PM I want but he isn't a complete jerk the Ridding has only elected a Liberal once its whole history and that was during the years when the Liberals won every seat in Ontario.

[Smallc]

No my info is correct. The last fund raising quarter which is the one you were referring to was the election quarter

No, it wasn't. Did you even look at the link?

However the Liberals had 1,260,536 donations in the max donors which is around 20% of all their donations, while the NDP only brought in 299,893 which was only 6% of their total donations.

I'm sorry, but your numbers are absolute nonsense.

[punked]

No, it wasn't. Did you even look at the link?

I'm sorry, but your numbers are absolute nonsense.

Let be break this down for you by real numbers. In 2011 the NDP matched the Liberal fund raising almost dollar for dollar except in one category that is Donors who max out their donations. In this category the Liberals raised 1,000,000 more dollars, but they did this as the government in waiting. Your assessment the Liberals are back because they have gotten 20% of all funding from Max donors is silly because of two things. The Liberal organization costs way more to run then the NDP AND they will see those big donors drop off because now they are seen as a party who has lost to the NDP. I would wait a year before making predictions based on situations which have changed.

[Smallc]

Except that you're still wrong. The Liberals had more donors in total, and the numbers I showed you were for the quarter following the election.

Your real numbers are nothing but NDP spin....and I'm not the Liberal party's biggest fan right now.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Smallc

[Newfoundlander]

Haven't heard of a by election being called. He will run and he will win as long as Harper lets the Leadership race play out which I think he will. Harper might not be the PM I want but he isn't a complete jerk the Ridding has only elected a Liberal once its whole history and that was during the years when the Liberals won every seat in Ontario.

The latest the byelection can be called is February.

[Newfoundlander]

No my info is correct. You said quarter not year. The last fund raising quarter which is the one you were referring to was the election quarter one in which the Liberals who are always seen as the alternative to sitting governments always do well. However if you look at them year over year the Liberals raised 98% of what they usually do that quarter while the NDp raised 118% of what they do.

However the Liberals had 1,260,536 donations in the max donors which is around 20% of all their donations, while the NDP only brought in 299,893 which was only 6% of their total donations. Those people making these large donations are power players in politics and they don't want to go with a loser. Your summation the Liberals somehow being better off because in an Election they lost big time they raised more money then the party that ate all their seats is mis guided and anyone can see that. Fact is over half the NDPs donations in in the under 200 dollars range the Conservatives as well but the Liberals aren't in this category and are going to pay for it.

If your fund raising depends on you being the government in waiting and you lose that title you are going to lose fund raising SmallC. You seem to be twisting the numbers to provide a narrative you would like instead of the one which exists.

We wont even go into the fact the Liberals run their organization with twice the over head of the other two parties so they need to raise a whole lot more to stay competitive because somewhere along the line they lost their grassroots and everything has to be done by paid party organizers.

Both the Liberals and NDP suck at raising money and if they cannot figure out how to raise it both parties will have a tough time taking out the Conservatives.

[punked]

Except that you're still wrong. The Liberals had more donors in total, and the numbers I showed you were for the quarter following the election.

Your real numbers are nothing but NDP spin....and I'm not the Liberal party's biggest fan right now.

No they weren't they were for the whole year.

[punked]

The latest the byelection can be called is February.

For anytime in the next 6 months. So Harper Can set the date for the By-Election for much further down the road.

[punked]

Both the Liberals and NDP suck at raising money and if they cannot figure out how to raise it both parties will have a tough time taking out the Conservatives.

That is just wrong. The NDP have a different model then the Liberals. They have a volunteer model where their greatest asset isn't the money but the people they bring in. Meaning they win more seats for their dollars spent year over year because if you have 10 volunteers phone banking against 10 paid phone bankers you are getting more for money spent. That is my point.

[Newfoundlander]

That is just wrong. The NDP have a different model then the Liberals. They have a volunteer model where their greatest asset isn't the money but the people they bring in. Meaning they win more seats for their dollars spent year over year because if you have 10 volunteers phone banking against 10 paid phone bankers you are getting more for money spent. That is my point.

Face it they suck at raising money. The Conservatives are the only party able to raise lots of money and because of this they are able to constantly campaig and win.

[punked]

Face it they suck at raising money. The Conservatives are the only party able to raise lots of money and because of this they are able to constantly campaig and win.

Again they have a different model and always have. There is a reason why they win seats but spend much much less money. You can raise no money but have 10 times the volunteer base of other parties and wipe them off the map. What you are talking about is a part of winning elections but is only a small part in a much bigger picture.

I get it you are coming at the problem as a Liberal "Money and only money can win elections" I am coming at it from an NDP perspective "We win elections with less money then others because we have less debt and more man power hours". Your perspective is outdated and wrong in todays world.

Edited November 6, 2011 by punked

[Newfoundlander]

Again they have a different model and always have. There is a reason why they win seats but spend much much less money. You can raise no money but have 10 times the volunteer base of other parties and wipe them off the map. What you are talking about is a part of winning elections but is only a small part in a much bigger picture.

I get it you are coming at the problem as a Liberal "Money and only money can win elections" I am coming at it from an NDP perspective "We win elections with less money then others because we have less debt and more man power hours". Your perspective is outdated and wrong in todays world.

Obviously money isn't the most important thing seeing people in Quebec voted for the NDP even though the party barely did anything there.

[punked]

Obviously money isn't the most important thing seeing people in Quebec voted for the NDP even though the party barely did anything there.

Expect spend the last 10 years focusing on crediting a ground game, and growing the party in Quebec, at the same time the Liberals moved their focus. If you refuse to see how much the NDP has grown in Quebec over the last 10 years all I can think is you truly are a Liberal because the ignored that growth to and still refuse to accept the have some work to do and the NDP wasn't a fluke. Keep it up.

[Newfoundlander]

Expect spend the last 10 years focusing on crediting a ground game, and growing the party in Quebec, at the same time the Liberals moved their focus. If you refuse to see how much the NDP has grown in Quebec over the last 10 years all I can think is you truly are a Liberal because the ignored that growth to and still refuse to accept the have some work to do and the NDP wasn't a fluke. Keep it up.

Ground game? What ground game techniques did Ruth Ellen Brosseau focus on during the campaign? The reason Quebec voted NDP was because of Jack Layton.

This thread isn't about the NDP, if you wan to create a thread talking about how money doesn't matter go right ahead.

[punked]

Ground game? What ground game techniques did Ruth Ellen Brosseau focus on during the campaign? The reason Quebec voted NDP was because of Jack Layton.

This thread isn't about the NDP, if you wan to create a thread talking about how money doesn't matter go right ahead.

You seem to focus on the things that make argument better and the not actual things that happened. Fact is last election the NDP were building on past success. I was at the 2008 Convention when the NDP said they see growth in Quebec, they plan on working on getting real candidates and using money and resources to get them elected in Quebec. Just because that success spread to the rest of the province only proves what they did worked, a raising tide lifts all ships once the vote in the ridings they have been working on started to break and their polls went up the rest of the province paid attention. They listen to what was being said now the NDP was legitimized and the tide started to rise across the province. You really need to stop looking at the win as a fluke because that will only burn you and your party in the future. The way elections are won are hard work that still seems to escape the Liberal party and their members. You continue to show that.

[Newfoundlander]

I couldn't care less punked. I don't care about how the NDP's "plan" to win over Quebeckers worked out, I don't care that they don't try and raise lots of money,it doesn't interest me. You can start a thread about the party's leadership race because that is of some interest, though I doubt discussing it with you would be interesting.

This thread is about the screwed up Liberals attempting to get there shit in order. You don't care about the Liberals and never seem to add anything of interest when discussing parties besides the NDP. Some people, like myself, can discuss what's going on with other parties and what they could do moving forward, even if we don't support that party. You seem incapable of doing this and just attack people while discussing how wonderful the NDP are.

[Smallc]

No they weren't they were for the whole year.

And in both sets of numbers, the Liberals were ahead, a first in a while.

[Smallc]

For anytime in the next 6 months.

I thought it had to be called within six months.

[Newfoundlander]

Rob Silver discusses some of the key things the Liberals are looking at changing in their organization moving forward.

Liberal Party executive at last proposes substantive change

If January's biannual conventional is a canary in the proverbial coal mine for the Liberal Party – foreshadowing whether it has a bright future, or not – there are some encouraging signs emerging that the party at the very least gets the severity of the situation we are facing. That's progress.

One of the most encouraging signs to emerge to date is a series of reforms the national executive is coming forward with in the days to come as part of a White Paper to overhaul the inner workings of the party. Let me start with the positives: Some of the changes are outstanding, long overdue reforms that the executive deserves massive kudos for.

Some of the reforms the executive is proposing include:

» An end to protected nominations for incumbents. Sweet lord, thank you. While no one change will fix everything, this is a massive step forward. Popular MPs who are active in their ridings should hold them easily. Democracy can be messy – and will be – so some incumbents may lose nomination battles. As long as they are open and fair, that’s okay. This is a big bold change that’s a decade late but still important.

» An end to the leader's power to appoint candidates. See above. Really important. As with all of these, sure to meet strong resistance by some Liberals.

» The elimination of the Provincial and Territorial Associations by the end of June 2012. This is really inside baseball but the Liberal Party of Canada is not one national party currently; it is a decentralized federation. Some steps were taken in 2006 to fix that but structural barriers remain. If you were starting a new party from scratch, nobody would ever consider structuring it the way the Liberal Party has. But, as you'd expect, there are lots of people who are very comfortable with the status quo. This will be a bun fight but hopefully the party decides to move forward and not live in a deeply flawed past.

» Modernization of the party's fundraising and membership recruitment through the creation of a National Liberal Fund and an internal call center. Ya, the Conservatives have had these for their entire existence so we're late to the game but these are still important modernizing steps that the executive deserves to be congratulated for recognizing and taking steps to catch up.

There are other proposals – including open primaries that I wrote about months ago – that Liberals can chew on leading up to January. The entire White Paper, weighing in at almost 100-pages, is a frustrating document (that’s me being nice; there are parts that are really bad, in particular the sections on “what we believe in”) that risks obscuring these really positive changes that Liberals will hopefully support in January as a step in our rebuilding process. But for taking leadership by proposing changes that will be controversial in lots of circles, the executive deserves a big thank you.

[punked]

I thought it had to be called within six months.

Be called with in six months for anytime in the six months after it is called. Which means a seat can be vacant for up to a year. That is my understanding.

[Smallc]

I don't know if that's correct.