Forgiveness - & Possible Execution

[Guest American Woman]

An Iranian woman blinded and disfigured by a man who threw acid into her face stood above her attacker Sunday in a hospital operating room as a doctor was about to put several drops of acid in one of his eyes in court-ordered retribution.

The man waited on his knees and wept.

"What do you want to do now?" the doctor asked the 34-year-old woman, whose own face was severely disfigured in the 2004 attack.

"I forgave him, I forgave him," she responded, asking the doctor to spare him at the last minute in a dramatic scene broadcast on Iran's state television.

I find it unbelievable that a court would order such a punishment and heartwarming that the woman would not allow the cruel and unusual punishment to be carried out. According to the article, the man threw acid on her because she refused his marriage proposal.

It is a legal right for victims in Iran to ask for a strict enforcement of Islamic law, under which an attempt is made to reach a settlement with victims or their families. If no agreement is reached, then "qisas," or eye-for-an-eye retribution, is enforced.

"It is best to pardon when you are in a position of power," Bahrami said, explaining that she did not want revenge.

Had a more humane and civilized sentence been handed down, the man likely would now be serving it. As amazing as I find the woman's compassion, I can't imagine standing by and allowing such a punishment either, so it seems to me such a sentence was in effect 'a get out of jail free' card for the assailant - at least in this instance. I have to wonder how often this type of 'justice' is carried out.

link

Edited to add: I've changed the title of the thread to reflect both of the cases that are being discussed.

Edited July 31, 2011 by American Woman

[Remiel]

From afar it looks very fine and well to say that he got off scot free, but I am sure you would feel differently were you in the situation of very nearly having your eyes burned out with acid. I can only imagine that in that situation, as the moment drew near, you would feel pure terror in a way a mere jail sentence cannot inflict.

That is not to say that he did not get lucky, of course.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Remiel

[Bob]

American Woman, we're dealing with state-controlled media in an authoritarian country. This is likely staged for one strange reason or another, or, at the very least, it isn't as spontaneous as the Iranian propaganda arm is trying to lead us to believe. We need to be especially skeptical with news from official Iranian news outlets.

[Guest American Woman]

My link didn't work - I fixed it - it's from the associated press. What's not to believe about it? It doesn't make Iran look good. Furthermore, the article states that there have been several other acid attacks on women in Iran. Last week, a young woman died after a man poured acid on her face for rejecting his marriage proposal. Her attacker remains at large.

I have to admit I was thrown by the "broadcast on television" aspect, but I can't imagine why such a thing would be staged. The woman was clearly maimed by acid - there are photos of her.

[Bob]

When dealing with such a strange regime, their motivations may not always be clear. Or, their motivations may be based on a very poor understanding of how the story will be perceived by their target audience. Don't expect the Iranian regime to always exercise shrewd political media strategies. Perhaps it was an attempt to portray Iranian people as compassionate or forgiving? Who knows? The story may be essentially true, but at the very least the dramatic last-second forgiveness is OBVIOUSLY staged.

All I'm saying is I have mega-skepticism from all news that is advanced from their propaganda machine, considering that it is a an authoritarian regime without democratic accountability/transparency.

[Guest American Woman]

Hmmmmm.... this news item comes on top of the first: Iran to announce U.S. hikers verdict in "coming days"t

Under Iran's Islamic law, espionage can be punished by execution.

Does anyone believe they were anything other than hikers?

[Bob]

Hmmmmm.... this news item comes on top of the first: Iran to announce U.S. hikers verdict in "coming days"t

Under Iran's Islamic law, espionage can be punished by execution.

Does anyone believe they were anything other than hikers?

I believe they were hikers, informed by massive ignorance, stupidity, and naivety (and a bad sense of direction), and perhaps leftist politics and a desire to lean about the cultures of the reasons. I am highly suspicious of anyone who has a deep interest in learning about the cultures of this reason, and typically assume that such people as Islamist sympathizers who view the world through rose-coloured glasses and are out the find the "truth" about Islam. I certainly reject the lies from the Iranian regime about them being "spies". More like leftist pro-Islamist leftist student on a moronic globe-trotting adventure (in Iran, of all places).

But I am a suspicious person by nature, when it comes to politics.

[Remiel]

I am highly suspicious of anyone who has a deep interest in learning about the cultures of this reason, and typically assume that such people as Islamist sympathizers who view the world through rose-coloured glasses and are out the find the "truth" about Islam.

Are you similarly suspicious of people who travel to Israel to find the " truth " about the Jews?

[Bob]

Are you similarly suspicious of people who travel to Israel to find the " truth " about the Jews?

It depends. It's it's a leftist agitator, then of course. The difference is, this is a free country, not an authoritarian regime. Leftists have a very difficult time differentiating between the two, and often seem to romanticize the latter, hence their love-fest with Castro, his homeboy Che and t-shirts with his image, Mao, Lenin, and the hammer and sickle symbol.

But if someone comes here with an open-mind and objective attitude, then it's cool.

[Bob]

I should add that my suspicions about these hikers being ultra-leftist freaks turned out to be true. They're vehemently anti-Israel (which is a given for any Islamist apologist, as Israel the number one agenda item for all aggrieved Arabs/Muslims), and soft on Islamism, while decrying perceived Western imperialism/colonialism. They're ridiculous, and frankly, I don't think America should lift a finger to help them. If you're dumb enough to hoke around a tyrannical regime in this day and age, with open access to reality through the internet, as young and tech-savvy "activists", then you're responsible for your own misfortune.

[Remiel]

I should add that my suspicions about these hikers being ultra-leftist freaks turned out to be true. They're vehemently anti-Israel (which is a given for any Islamist apologist, as Israel the number one agenda item for all aggrieved Arabs/Muslims), and soft on Islamism, while decrying perceived Western imperialism/colonialism. They're ridiculous, and frankly, I don't think America should lift a finger to help them. If you're dumb enough to hoke around a tyrannical regime in this day and age, with open access to reality through the internet, as young and tech-savvy "activists", then you're responsible for your own misfortune.

Cite? You sure that is not just the story they are feeding the Iranians?

[Bob]

Cite? You sure that is not just the story they are feeding the Iranians?

I can cite it for you. They were on record being leftists before their apprehension. Let me look for it...

Here's a revealing article written by one of the three detained "hikers", Sarah Shourd. It's filled with lies about Israel, including but not limited to Israel forcing Hebrew education at the expense of Arabic (Arab schools primarily teach Arabic, with less-than- modest standards for Hebrew), "poor quality" and "expensive" phone calls to Syria (use Skype if you're that broke?), using the "shouting hill" as the "only" way to communicate with relatives across the border, and lies about these Arabs in the Golan being unable to leave. If they want to emigrate to Syria, go for it!

I came across other leftist articles she had written, before. I can look for them later. Wikipedia states that she spent time in Syria teaching English and working in "social justice". Look at her last name. Any more reason to doubt she's a hardcore leftist with strong anti-Israel views while engaging in hypocritical apologism for Arabs/Muslims?

You can find more information about these folks, with cites, from this website that has no love lost for these leftists. They all romanticize Arabic/Islamic culture, which isn't surprising given than two of them are of that ancestry as well as the other having majored in Arabic. It's the usual story.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Bob

[Guest American Woman]

Cite? You sure that is not just the story they are feeding the Iranians?

According to Wikipedia they are anti-war, social justice and Palestinian solidarity activists.....link

[Bob]

Here's an article written by Shane Bauer (found through his website which he co-owns with the third hiker Josh Fatta)l. Some politicized rhetoric (in order to stay "balanced") isn't hard to find, such as "Palestinian resistance", lies about Hamas' lack of control (and therefore lack of responsibility) over "splinter" terrorist groups (referred to as "militant groups")in Gaza, and describing Fatah as "secular" (which is only true when compared to Hamas, of course).

[Guest American Woman]

If you're dumb enough to hoke around a tyrannical regime in this day and age, with open access to reality through the internet, as young and tech-savvy "activists", then you're responsible for your own misfortune.

I recall Canada was recently dealing with a similar issue, but I don't recall execution being a possibility.

I don't think their political views should have any bearing on whether the government helps them or not, but I do think the government should do what it can ... and then charge them for any expenses. I doubt there would be much the government can do, though - short of putting it out there in the media and hopefully some world pressure will be put on Iran as a result.

I do believe the hikers were innocent - sounds as if they entered Iran by mistake. If they purposely did, they were just asking for trouble. No one should ever cross any border illegally, and when there are wars going on, it becomes even more stupid to take chances. They were certainly old enough to know better.

However, execution for their mistake is horrific.

I have to say that I found this article a rude awakening after having just read the humanitarian story coming out of Iran .............

[Scotty]

According to Wikipedia they are anti-war, social justice and Palestinian solidarity activists.....link

Well, quite aside from that, anyone dumb enough to think the Iraq of two years ago was a great place to visit and go hiking in is so incredibly dumb they shouldn't be allowed to breed. Let the Iranians keep em.

[Guest American Woman]

Well, quite aside from that, anyone dumb enough to think the Iraq of two years ago was a great place to visit and go hiking in is so incredibly dumb they shouldn't be allowed to breed. Let the Iranians keep em.

From what I've read, they were living in Iraq at the time. "Keeping them" and "executing them" are two very different things, though ........

[Bob]

I recall Canada was recently dealing with a similar issue, but I don't recall execution being a possibility.

I forget...

I don't think their political views should have any bearing on whether the government helps them or not, but I do think the government should do what it can ... and then charge them for any expenses. I doubt there would be much the government can do, though - short of putting it out there in the media and hopefully some world pressure will be put on Iran as a result.

I agree, political views are not important. Stupidity and personal responsibility, on the other hand, are relevant issues. They knowingly went to hike around Iran, and these are all college-educated youths who should CERTAINLY know better. It's just that I think their behaviour is revealing of their politics.

I do believe the hikers were innocent - sounds as if they entered Iran by mistake. If they purposely did, they were just asking for trouble. No one should ever cross any border illegally, and when there are wars going on, it becomes even more stupid to take chances. They were certainly old enough to know better.

I am certain they are innocent as well. I doubt they had any intentions to spy or do wrong in Iran. They are certainly guilty of being idiots, however, and then willingly acting as propaganda pieces for the Iranian government while in custody (understandably, given their circumstances).

However, execution for their mistake is horrific.

Certainly.

I have to say that I found this article a rude awakening after having just read the humanitarian story coming out of Iran .............

Iran is really messed up, right now. I don't know if you have any Iranian contacts, but have conversations with them about their friends/family in Iran (assuming they are still in contact with them). The stories of oppression and fear are really sad :-(

[Bob]

Well, quite aside from that, anyone dumb enough to think the Iraq of two years ago was a great place to visit and go hiking in is so incredibly dumb they shouldn't be allowed to breed. Let the Iranians keep em.

I agree with American Woman's idea about the American government assisting them, provided they are sent a bill afterwards. They are certainly BEYOND stupid, and even worse, they are HIGHLY MOTIVATED to continue being stupid....

[jbg]

From afar it looks very fine and well to say that he got off scot free, but I am sure you would feel differently were you in the situation of very nearly having your eyes burned out with acid. I can only imagine that in that situation, as the moment drew near, you would feel pure terror in a way a mere jail sentence cannot inflict.

That is not to say that he did not get lucky, of course.

Why, oh why is this kind of savagery even an issue?