Europe's resurgent far right focuses on immigration, multicultural

[Bob]

What difference does that make? If this guy was able to get there in 30 minutes, and one presumes he wasn't speeding the entire time, then the cops ought to have been able to get there the same way he did in considerably less time than he took.

I'm way too lazy to read back through this thread, but you do realize the shooting took place on an island that is only normally accessible via ferry, right? Perhaps the police did respond slowly, but we really need more details about the existing infrastructure to be able to offer a meaningful analysis (where's the nearest police boat-house or departure point for police via boats, and what's the speed of their boats and distance to the island?). I think the somewhat unconventional and isolated location of the island largely explains the apparent long time it took for the authorities to respond. Was the response time too unreasonable at the time, given Norway's history with crime/terrorism? I doubt it, but who knows?

[Guest Derek L]

I'm way too lazy to read back through this thread, but you do realize the shooting took place on an island that is only normally accessible via ferry, right? Perhaps the police did respond slowly, but we really need more details about the existing infrastructure to be able to offer a meaningful analysis (where's the nearest police boat-house or departure point for police via boats, and what's the speed of their boats and distance to the island?). I think the somewhat unconventional and isolated location of the island largely explains the apparent long time it took for the authorities to respond. Was the response time too unreasonable at the time, given Norway's history with crime/terrorism? I doubt it, but who knows?

I’d think if one took a pragmatic approach to this horrible tragedy and imagined if something like this occurred here……..Think how many Boy scouts camps/Provincial camp sites/Ski resorts etc we have here in Canada. They all tend to be in remote areas. Would our police forces be able respond better? Here in BC’s lower mainland, with a population well over one million, between the municipal and RCMP detachments, we have two police helicopters……..Of the ten the RCMP operates across Canada, all of them are what are considered light helicopters (Jet Rangers & A-Stars), hardly suitable for moving a SWAT/ERT around……..Would we have done any better?

[Bob]

I’d think if one took a pragmatic approach to this horrible tragedy and imagined if something like this occurred here……..Think how many Boy scouts camps/Provincial camp sites/Ski resorts etc we have here in Canada. They all tend to be in remote areas. Would our police forces be able respond better? Here in BC’s lower mainland, with a population well over one million, between the municipal and RCMP detachments, we have two police helicopters……..Of the ten the RCMP operates across Canada, all of them are what are considered light helicopters (Jet Rangers & A-Stars), hardly suitable for moving a SWAT/ERT around……..Would we have done any better?

In my amateur opinion, I agree with that completely.

[Guest Derek L]

In my amateur opinion, I agree with that completely.

Fore the most part, what can be taken from this horrible tragedy is that thankfully, it’s a one-off, event committed by a nutter……….I personally won’t lose sleep over something like this happening here, it could happen yes, but statiscally, there’s a greater chance I’d be killed by a drunk/speeding/bad driver on the road………

A different angle, could be that this could speak to looking at our current gun laws, and perhaps examining if CCW would be feasible…….technically it is currently legal in Canada, but Provincial chief firearm officers almost never grant ATCs………

I wonder how events in Norway would have played out if a few of the adults at the camp had of been armed?

[Shwa]

Unfortunately,it seems that anyone daring to challenge anything supported by the left(cradle to grave welfare state,unrestricted immigration,generous handouts to special interest groups,etc...)is considered "far right".

Well why is that? The "far right" designation? If you disagree, then say why. Canada and the US are modern welfare states within which the right wing of the political spectrum operates just fine. If challenges to welfare, immigration and interest groups are mainstream with the right wing, well I certainly don't see it in any great degree. Sure there might be the usual rhetoric, but no concrete moves away from welfare, immigration and interest groups, especially since those social entities support most right wing goals.

While I don't agree with much of the foolishness that typically comes from the left,they are most certainly entitled to their opinions.On the other hand,those on the left will not tolerate any opinions that differ from their own.

No, the mistake you are making here - especially with a view towards Canada - is that the left is entitled to their legislation that supports the modern welfare state with its welfare, health care, immigration policies and special interest groups. The CPC are in majority power and we won't be seeing any sort of dismantling of our social programs will we? That is because the right wing in Canada will only go so far because they are still, at the core, liberal. The far right in Canada, well, they lack the power to do anything other than whine and complain about the left all the while enjoying the fruits of that leftist legislation.

[bush_cheney2004]

Well why is that? The "far right" designation? If you disagree, then say why. Canada and the US are modern welfare states within which the right wing of the political spectrum operates just fine. If challenges to welfare, immigration and interest groups are mainstream with the right wing, well I certainly don't see it in any great degree...

Better check your "even-in-the-US" wannabe meter...such challenges from the "far right" have been in play for years and were renewed with vigor just today.

Edited August 1, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[Shwa]

Better check your "even-in-the-US" wannabe meter...such challenges from the "far right" have been in play for years and were renewed just with vigor just today.

No, even in the US where welfare, medicare, corporate bailouts, and the other TON of social programming etc., etc,. are pretty safe. They might change form from time to time, but the substance is the same.

[bush_cheney2004]

No, even in the US where welfare, medicare, corporate bailouts, and the other TON of social programming etc., etc,. are pretty safe. They might change form from time to time, but the substance is the same.

Oh sure they are...nothing like invoking that great American welfare state when it suits your agenda. I get it...the USA adds gravitas to your position, even if it is a bit off the mark. Slashing the welfare rolls in the 90's should just be forgotten as a bump in the road. Ditto the ongoing healthcare battle and cuts for entitlements in the future. America is part of the club...when you want it to be.

[Shwa]

Oh sure they are...nothing like invoking that great American welfare state when it suits your agenda. I get it...the USA adds gravitas to your position, even if it is a bit off the mark. Slashing the welfare rolls in the 90's should just be forgotten as a bump in the road. Ditto the ongoing healthcare battle and cuts for entitlements in the future. America is part of the club...when you want it to be.

Ignoring your usual histrionics, are you saying that the US isn't a modern welfare state?

[bush_cheney2004]

Ignoring your usual histrionics, are you saying that the US isn't a modern welfare state?

No, I'm saying that you invoke the US in such a light only when it suits your purpose. Clearly the so called American "right wing" has fought to diminish, not enhance the welfare state, with some success. The US is not a Nordic or even Euro welfare state based on commonly accepted attributes, and continues to have one of the lowest OECD social expenditures as a percentage of GDP, just like Canada. In other words, there are far better examples of modern welfare states on another continent.

[Shwa]

No, I'm saying that you invoke the US in such a light only when it suits your purpose.

You don't have a problem with me doing this do you? Invoking the US when it suits my purpose? Because that is what your usual histrionics is all about, or so it seems. If you don't like it, give me a good reason why I shouldn't do it.

Clearly the so called American "right wing" has fought to diminish, not enhance the welfare state, with some success. The US is not a Nordic or even Euro welfare state based on commonly accepted attributes, and continues to have one of the lowest OECD social expenditures as a percentage of GDP, just like Canada. In other words, there are far better examples of modern welfare states on another continent.

Using the US to illustrate works perfectly since, as a whole, the US tends to lean more toward the right than up here. So, even there - with it's more right leaning attitudes - socialism and socially oriented programs are safe. So much so that the right wing in the US has found a utility, along with the comfort level, with those big US welfare programs.