Why do the Harper Conservatives dislike students?

[capricorn]

Natives do get fully funded university, you must know that.

Not just university. My 2 adult step daughters have Indian status. They enrolled in vocational training courses, pricy I might add, all paid for by the Band Council. Of course, we know who funds the Band Councils.

[guyser]

Natives do get fully funded university, you must know that.

Gosh, I must know that ?

Why would I know something that isnt true? Which ones do? Status , Non Status , Inuit , Metis?

The words our resident Non-einstein posted were..."Unless they are indinas (sic) or half indians, whose education is fully paid by all taxpayers."

That some of the bands do pay for post secondary education does not mean 'indians education is fully paid by all taxpayers.

It is an 'ignorant stereotype' perpetuated by half of the former.

[guyser]

Not just university. My 2 adult step daughters have Indian status. They enrolled in vocational training courses, pricy I might add, all paid for by the Band Council. Of course, we know who funds the Band Councils.

Good for your daughters, but you must know not all status kids get that.

Dont perpetuate the myth.

[Harry]

Soona should not have grabbed the ballot box

You make this sound like attempting to steal a ballot box full of votes is some minor little occurence here.

There is a process to follow if there is a problem at a voting area. I have absolutley no sympathy for some power-tripping jerk trying to steal a ballot box and who may have roughed up a polling officer as well. We need an immediate investigation and hopefully he will be dealt with severely to set an example that you don't mess with our democracy. And of course the directive probably came from the PMO because basically nothing happens now in our government without Harper's approval.

Edited April 15, 2011 by Harry

[capricorn]

Good for your daughters, but you must know not all status kids get that.

Dont perpetuate the myth.

What do you mean by a myth. My personal experience is definitely not a myth.

[scribblet]

You make this sound like attempting to steal a ballot box full of votes is some minor little occurence here.

There is a process to follow if there is a problem at a voting area. I have absolutley no sympathy for some power-tripping jerk trying to steal a ballot box and who may have roughed up a polling officer as well. We need an immediate investigation and hopefully he will be dealt with severely to set an example that you don't mess with our democracy. And of course the directive probably came from the PMO because basically nothing happens now in our government without Harper's approval.

First off, Soona has gone, and they did send a lawyer's letter.

Secondly what we need is an investigation into how a Returning Officer was able to supply all the necessary equipment for an illegal poll having no prior authorization. How did she get the ballots ahead of the regular advanced polls and how will she account for them. (It's early for an RO to have them all) if there was no authorization from EC how was she able to get them.

We also need an investigation into this 'mob vote' and how they persuaded an RO to be complicit in this,

How many of the students that voted that day will be residing on campus on May 2 (not too many I bet)

What do they have in place to ensure they don't vote again when they go home.

Why was partisan election material was present at the poll.

E.C. needs to be investigated !!!

The opposition is ranting about this and wants an investigation into something that they (Liberals) put the boots to in Toronto in 2006 !!

[scribblet]

Gosh, I must know that ?

Natives across Canada receive over 10 billion in funding from various sources, maybe some band councils get into the habit of ahem - diverting education monies to other uses..

[Scotty]

Harper has to now apologize for harrassing these students and trying to void their votes. Just disgusting behaviour by the Conservatives who obviously have little respect for democracy.

As I understand it, according to your own cite, the local returning officer decided to hold a ballot without permission from anyone, all on his own, way ahead of the regular advance polls. Elections Canada has now accepted it, apparently so to not disenfranchise the students who voted, but told him not to do it again, or to do anything similar, and told all other returning officers not to do it.

Now where anyone sane would get from that a disrespect for democracy on the part of the Tories is just beyond me.

[Scotty]

Attempting to steal a ballot box full of ballots.

Criminal charges will be laid here against the Conservatives - yes?

You're simply raving now.

[Scotty]

Don't be so rude. You sound like you are foaming at the mouth.

I didn't get that he sounded like you at all...

[Molly]

You're simply raving now.

That cavalier attitude to ballots offends me to my core. The bugger should be behind an iron door now, and darned well stay there for a while.

If anyone is found to have put him up to it, they should join him.

[Scotty]

That cavalier attitude to ballots offends me to my core. The bugger should be behind an iron door now, and darned well stay there for a while.

If anyone is found to have put him up to it, they should join him.

You have one report, completely unsubstantiated, from bystanders, that he sort of, not tried to grab it, but looked like he was intending to try to grab it... And that's it. There have been no complaints from the returning officer or other election workers at that 'poll' and yet you guys are basically ready to have the tory guy executed out of hand.

Funny how soft you all are on real criminals, but let a tory put his hands somewhere in the general direction of a ballot box and it's "Off with his head!"

[capricorn]

You have one report, completely unsubstantiated, from bystanders, that he sort of, not tried to grab it, but looked like he was intending to try to grab it... And that's it. There have been no complaints from the returning officer or other election workers at that 'poll' and yet you guys are basically ready to have the tory guy executed out of hand.

The bystanders said they did not see Soona lay a hand on the ballot box. I doubt the Conservative Party would have written to Elections Canada if they had heard (or suspected) one of their workers was involved in attempting to confiscate a ballot box.

[Molly]

(replying to Scotty. Sorry Capricorn.)

You ain't seen nuthin!

If anyone with a jot of actual knowledge started correcting the rediculous tripe being dished in his defense, this thread would be double it's current page count, and rising.

You, for instance, might wnat to visit the Elections Canada website to learn all about special ballots, and how you, too, could have voted today.

No pre-printed ballots necessary;, no official 'advance poll' required; no special permission needed since it's one of the tasks a returning officer (she, in this case, not he) is hired and required to perform...

etc.

Edited April 16, 2011 by Molly

[Molly]

Elections Canada has now accepted it, apparently so to not disenfranchise the students who voted, but told him not to do it again, or to do anything similar, and told all other returning officers not to do it.

And that- exactly that- is a darned shame, and a direct suppression of a very important group of voters (for what appears to be grossly partisan reasons). Special polls that seek out those less likely or less able to vote are a good thing, not something to be discouraged.

[Harry]

The accused culprit is Michael Sona, a Conservative party operative (read Conservative Party employee), who presently is an aide to Fundy Royal, NB junior minister Rob Moore. Maybe among the many things that need to be done here is to lauch a major effort to defeat Rob Moore in Fundy Royal. What is Rob Moore doing employing a creep like this? What else has this party hack been up to? And why is he in Guleph, Ontario which is pretty far from home? Layton is absolutely correct - we do need an investigation.

Fundy Royal

Elec Party Votes %Vot %Elec Candidate Inc Prev G Nom. Source Website

2011 GE

Grn COBURN, Stephanie F Website

Cons MOORE, Rob x y M Website

NDP PITRE, Darryl M Website

Lib WILHELM, Linda Ann F Website

Elec Party Votes %Vot %Elec Candidate Inc Prev G Residence Occupation

2008 GE

Cons 17,211 51.6% 31.3% MOORE, Rob x y M Quispamsis, N.B. Parliamentarian

NDP 7,907 23.7% 14.4% MOIR, Rob y M Clifton Royal, N.B. Professor

Lib 5,773 17.3% 10.5% WRIGHT, Mark M Sussex, N.B. Sales Representative

Grn 2,443 7.3% 4.4% MILLETT, Erik Matthew y M Hampton, N.B. Principal Elementary School

NV 21,393 38.9% Non-Voters

2006 GE

Cons 17,630 48.3% 32.6% MOORE, Rob x y M Quispamsis, N.B. Lawyer

Lib 9,979 27.3% 18.4% HUNTER, Eldon M Douglas Harbour, N.B. Business Owner

NDP 7,696 21.1% 14.2% MOIR, Rob M Clifton Royal, N.B. Associate Professor

Grn 1,189 3.3% 2.2% DONOVAN, Patty F Quispamsis, N.B. Program Facilitator

NV 17,407 32.1% Non-Voters

2004 GE

Cons 14,997 44.8% 27.7% MOORE, Rob y M Quispamsis, NB Lawyer

Lib 11,635 34.8% 21.5% HERRON, John x y M Bloomfield, NB Parliamentarian

NDP 5,417 16.2% 10.0% HANRATTY, Pat M Darlings Island, NB Carpenter

Grn 1,051 3.1% 1.9% BACH, Karin F New Horton, NB Artist

Ind 358 1.1% 0.7% AMOS, David Raymond M Sussex Corner, NB Homemaker

NV 20,424 37.7% Non-Voters

2000 Tr

PC 12,380 37.6% 25.0%

Lib 9,698 29.5% 19.6%

CA 8,444 25.7% 17.0%

NDP 2,370 7.2% 4.8%

Oth 19 0.1% 0.0%

NV 16,655 33.6% Non-Voters

http://www.punditsguide.ca/riding/?riding=972

There is only one reason Harper backed off on this and it was the student backlash.

Elections Canada rejects Tory effort to annul votes at University of Guelph

While the Tory attempt to nullify the University of Guelph ballots was rejected, the complaint prompted Canada's elections watchdog to put an end to any further special voting on post-secondary campuses across the country.

The ruling was bittersweet for those trying to improve the abysmal turnout of young voters.

"It feels like a tactical victory for democracy but a strategic loss," said Jamie Biggar, executive director of leadnow.ca, a group that has been organizing "vote mobs" on university campuses.

Elections Canada spokesman John Enright said students can still vote by special ballot, either by mail or by going to their local returning office. They will not, however, be able to conduct special ballot sessions on campus.

Biggar said the rules should be changed to allow voting on campuses, particularly now when students are in the midst of final exams.

"Why make it harder to vote?"

Before Mayrand's decision, Biggar's group had collected 3,600 signatures in about 12 hours on an online petition demanding that the Guelph votes be validated. Reaction also exploded overnight on social-networking sites.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/leaders-zero-in-on-key-ridings-issues-as-election-campaign-tips-past-halfway-point-119903399.html

Edited April 16, 2011 by Harry

[Scotty]

And that- exactly that- is a darned shame, and a direct suppression of a very important group of voters (for what appears to be grossly partisan reasons). Special polls that seek out those less likely or less able to vote are a good thing, not something to be discouraged.

From my perspective, if you're too lazy to vote, good. Don't. I have no desire to see such lazy people encouraged to vote. That's particularly so of the young, who in addition to being lazy are generally almost entirely free of knowledge about anything remotely connected with government, economics or finance.

Why do you believe encouraging stupid people to vote is a good thing?

[capricorn]

And that- exactly that- is a darned shame, and a direct suppression of a very important group of voters (for what appears to be grossly partisan reasons). Special polls that seek out those less likely or less able to vote are a good thing, not something to be discouraged.

Yes, although it's not as clear to me why Elections Canada is putting a lid on special ballots. I get the feeling Elections Canada officials really don't have confidence in the operations of these special ballots in schools and universities. Otherwise, why not encourage the practice to increase voter participation?

[Harry]

Yes, although it's not as clear to me why Elections Canada is putting a lid on special ballots. I get the feeling Elections Canada officials really don't have confidence in the operations of these special ballots in schools and universities. Otherwise, why not encourage the practice to increase voter participation?

Exactly.

[Bryan]

You're simply raving now.

Only just now?

[Molly]

Yes, although it's not as clear to me why Elections Canada is putting a lid on special ballots.

I'm a complete cynic where this particular government is concerned- jaded, disgusted- convinced that there is no depth to which they would not stoop. I would propose that the air fairly trembles with intimidation, and that the apparent incompetence of our recent integrity commissioner was no fluke. These are not good times for maverick idealists.

Suppression of student votes benefits the CPC.

Edit: One must wonder whether the chill will extend equally to the special polls that might be conducted in nursing homes, hospitals and residential rehab centres. Surely it will not apply to military bases.

Edited April 16, 2011 by Molly

[capricorn]

Suppression of student votes benefits the CPC.

Conversely, the student vote benefits the opposition parties. Therefore one can see why the opposition parties would want as many of these special ballots as possible. Additionally, that argument could be used to disclaim that Elections Canada is biased against Conservative because it is blocking a voting method most beneficial to the opposition parties.

Edit: One must wonder whether the chill will extend equally to the special polls that might be conducted in nursing homes, hospitals and residential rehab centres. Surely it will not apply to military bases.

Would nursing homes residents not be categorized as a permanent residence? I would think so, therefore no special ballot required, only advance polls. Not sure about hospitals and rehab centres.

As for military personnel, it looks like it's always done by special ballot.

Canadian Forces electors vote by special ballot. During a general election or referendum, instructions for voting are posted at the polling station in each unit and a deputy returning officer is on hand to issue voting materials.

To vote, the elector must first complete and sign the declaration on the outer envelope that forms part of the voting kit. The declaration states that his or her name is as shown on the envelope and that he or she has not already voted in the election or referendum underway. The elector then completes the ballot by writing on it the name of one of the candidates in his or her riding – or, in the case of a referendum, by checking either "yes" or "no" – and then inserting the ballot in the series of envelopes in accordance with the instructions provided.

Finally, the elector is responsible for ensuring that Elections Canada in Ottawa receives the ballot no later than 6:00 p.m., Ottawa time, on polling day. Electors may mail their ballots themselves or, in most cases, during a general election or referendum, leave them with the deputy returning officer to forward by special arrangement. The ballot must be sent in the envelopes provided. A ballot received by any other means, including fax, will not be counted. The Act also prohibits counting ballots received after the deadline.

http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=bkg&document=ec90550〈=e

[Molly]

Would nursing homes residents not be categorized as a permanent residence? I would think so, therefore no special ballot required, only advance polls.

Advance polls have specifically mandated (extended) hours and days and very restricted rules of conduct. Special ballots/polls have no such time/activity restrictions, so depending on the circumstances, can better serve by accomplishing the same task in a very short time, even if everyone is a permanent resident.

[Harry]

Good on these young folks - this is fantastic

Surprise 'vote mobs' shaking up election campaign

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20110415/youth-vote-election-vote-mob-110415/20110415?s_name=election2011http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20110415/youth-vote-election-vote-mob-110415/20110415?s_name=election2011

[bloodyminded]

From my perspective, if you're too lazy to vote, good. Don't. I have no desire to see such lazy people encouraged to vote. That's particularly so of the young, who in addition to being lazy are generally almost entirely free of knowledge about anything remotely connected with government, economics or finance.

Why do you believe encouraging stupid people to vote is a good thing?

Over 60% of the country might ask the same thing, except that we respect the right to vote.