First Nations governance and compensation

[TimG]

Ottawa has not done a good enough job keeping track of were the money goes and how the FN's are living in conditions that aren't right.

So you are basically saying that First Nations are incapable of governing themselves without big daddy Ottawa holding their hand.

Native self-governence is broken because there is no taxation. If reserves we forced to tax their own people to get the money they use to operate then you would not see these abuses. People are much more diligent about policing these abuses when their own money is been taken away.

Edited December 3, 2010 by TimG

[AngusThermopyle]

So what is more expensive - $243k for some 300+ days per year managing a band of some 300+ people

Well lets look at this shall we. How do you know how much she works? Where are your stats? As for 300+ nonesense. I just finished reading a post last night by an actual member of this particular band who stated that the other members (outside of the 87) are spread out across NS, all of Canada and even the US. So how much does this despicable woman actually do. I can tell you exactly where this reserve is having spent 13 years in NS, I can also tell you of what it consists. It is no 234,000 a years worth of administration thats for sure. Further to that the Chiefs own cousin has publicly announced her resignation from a position granted her by this same Chief, I wonder why?

Your vehement response and apologist stance simply paint you as yet another zealot. Why is it that outrage is permissible when a white person abuses tax payer funding, but not when a Native does? Oh, thats right, any criticism or condemnation is actually racist, right?

What I find most alarming though is the way you guys jump to the defense of these crooks. You who advocate for Natives actually attempt to defend those who are screwing them royally. Or do you only advocate for wealthy dishonest Natives?

The people in the band, the actual members of the band in the OP article, who are complaining about their own chief's compensation - they have a right to complain. You however, just come off sounding like a cheap, haughty hypocrite with a misplaced sense of righteousness.

Bullshit. I work and I pay taxes, I have every right to complain as to how that money is used. It would appear to me that you come off sounding like just another person with an overblown sense of entitlement to other peoples money.

So now you can respond with some flacid comment about jamming Iron rings in my face if you wish. This after all is what I've come to expect of you. Birds of a feather as they say.

Edited December 3, 2010 by AngusThermopyle

[Shwa]

Well lets look at this shall we. How do you know how much she works? Where are your stats? As for 300+ nonesense. I just finished reading a post last night by an actual member of this particular band who stated that the other members (outside of the 87) are spread out across NS, all of Canada and even the US. So how much does this despicable woman actually do. I can tell you exactly where this reserve is having spent 13 years in NS, I can also tell you of what it consists. It is no 234,000 a years worth of administration thats for sure. Further to that the Chiefs own cousin has publicly announced her resignation from a position granted her by this same Chief, I wonder why?

Nothing but an in-artful dodge. Asking me to provide a rational for what she does when you can't even do the same thing. For shame.

Your vehement response and apologist stance simply paint you as yet another zealot. Why is it that outrage is permissible when a white person abuses tax payer funding, but not when a Native does? Oh, thats right, any criticism or condemnation is actually racist, right?

Cheap, haughty hypocrite with a misplaced sense of righteousness. I stand by my assessment and nowhere did I say, or even imply, racist. So now you are a suck too.

What I find most alarming though is the way you guys jump to the defense of these crooks. You who advocate for Natives actually attempt to defend those who are screwing them royally. Or do you only advocate for wealthy dishonest Natives?

What I find appalling is that when a comparison is made to senators, not only do you try and avoid my questions that completely skew your diatribe, but you come up with more questions that you demand be answered. Or do you only advocate for wealthy dishonest Senators?

Bullshit. I work and I pay taxes, I have every right to complain as to how that money is used. It would appear to me that you come off sounding like just another person with an overblown sense of entitlement to other peoples money.

I never said you couldn't complain, just that it is a big much you big suck. How ever I appear to you is no concern of mine.

So now you can respond with some flacid comment about jamming Iron rings in my face if you wish. This after all is what I've come to expect of you. Birds of a feather as they say

.

No, cheap, haughty hypocrite suck with a misplaced sense of righteousness still does just fine.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Shwa

[AngusThermopyle]

Well from the tenor of your last post it certainly is good to see that you too are living down to my expectations of you.

In short your post can be summed up as, wah wah, suck, wah, suck sucky suck suck. Nice, but not at all unexpected. Keep up the good work, you only serve to impress all with your maturity and reason.

Now back on topic. How do you know how I feel about Senators? In actual fact that is another subject that pisses me off. Because one shows an erroneous statement to in fact be erroneous does not in any way confir approval of any part of the relevant data. In this supposition your logic is quite simply not just faulty but actually non-existant.

[The_Squid]

That's not the issue. Politicians are entitled to their entitlements and First Nation politicians are only entitled to our scraps.

I sense a bit of jealousy in the OP. There is more to life than dwelling on one's hatred.

$240,000 is scraps? For administering a band of less than 100 people? You truly think that's reasonable?

Jealousy and hatred? Hardly... Concern how my taxes are spent? Absolutely. Concerned that while most of the community is impoverished a privelaged few make hundreds of thousands of dollars....

"Jealousy and hatred" is just your own ad hominem... I believe the word for that is hypocrite. You accuse me of that and a few posts later complain of an ad hominem attack? Pot meet kettle...

[The_Squid]

What I find appalling is that when a comparison is made to senators, not only do you try and avoid my questions that completely skew your diatribe, but you come up with more questions that you demand be answered. Or do you only advocate for wealthy dishonest Senators?

You're right.... These exorbitantly over-paid First Nations chiefs are the same as our useless overpaid Senators... except even more so... This particular chief gets even more than a Senator to administer a band of less than 100 people.

[Shwa]

You're right.... These exorbitantly over-paid First Nations chiefs are the same as our useless overpaid Senators... except even more so... This particular chief gets even more than a Senator to administer a band of less than 100 people.

Are you kidding me? The overpaid chief actually has work to do - for a band of 300+, the Senators are recipients of political patronage rewards that are required for some 70 or 80 days a year. Some of them don't even bother to show, they just collect their money and run.

[charter.rights]

Well from the tenor of your last post it certainly is good to see that you too are living down to my expectations of you.

In short your post can be summed up as, wah wah, suck, wah, suck sucky suck suck. Nice, but not at all unexpected. Keep up the good work, you only serve to impress all with your maturity and reason.

Now back on topic. How do you know how I feel about Senators? In actual fact that is another subject that pisses me off. Because one shows an erroneous statement to in fact be erroneous does not in any way confir approval of any part of the relevant data. In this supposition your logic is quite simply not just faulty but actually non-existant.

You lose, again. Nothing but ad hominem and straw man arguments out of this one.

[charter.rights]

$240,000 is scraps? For administering a band of less than 100 people? You truly think that's reasonable?

Jealousy and hatred? Hardly... Concern how my taxes are spent? Absolutely. Concerned that while most of the community is impoverished a privelaged few make hundreds of thousands of dollars....

"Jealousy and hatred" is just your own ad hominem... I believe the word for that is hypocrite. You accuse me of that and a few posts later complain of an ad hominem attack? Pot meet kettle...

If you were truly concerned about how our taxes were being spent you would be focusing on the mis-spending of the Conservative government. There are hundreds of examples.

No. you concern is nothing more that using FN as an easy target and leaving the realy tough issues up to those of us with some balls to do something about it.

[charter.rights]

Are you kidding me? The overpaid chief actually has work to do - for a band of 300+, the Senators are recipients of political patronage rewards that are required for some 70 or 80 days a year. Some of them don't even bother to show, they just collect their money and run.

Those 70 or 80 days boil down to maybe 4 hours of work per day in the odd committee. Work that out by the hour.....

[The_Squid]

Are you kidding me? The overpaid chief actually has work to do - for a band of 300+, the Senators are recipients of political patronage rewards that are required for some 70 or 80 days a year. Some of them don't even bother to show, they just collect their money and run.

You truly believe that a chief of a band with less than 100 members deserves $240,000 per year? Interesting...

I believe they deserve to be compensated... perhaps like a mayor of a town would... since the work is comparable. But $240,000 is just bilking taxpayers.

[Shwa]

'AngusThermopyle' date='03 December 2010 - 11:40 AM' timestamp='1291394403' post='604716' says:

Well from the tenor of your last post it certainly is good to see that you too are living down to my expectations of you.

So after posting your usual crap you then oh so predictably launch into your usual insults.

In short your post can be summed up as, wah wah, suck, wah, suck sucky suck suck. Nice, but not at all unexpected. Keep up the good work, you only serve to impress all with your maturity and reason.

dance little puppet dance. You really are so easy to guide any way I wish. The best part though is the fact that you don't even see what I do to you, even after all this time.

Now back on topic. How do you know how I feel about Senators? In actual fact that is another subject that pisses me off. Because one shows an erroneous statement to in fact be erroneous does not in any way confir approval of any part of the relevant data. In this supposition your logic is quite simply not just faulty but actually non-existant.

Oh yes, back to the topic. Would you care to comment further on your statement regarding Senatorial pay levels? Perhaps you would like to retract it publicly and let everyone here know it was just another of your lies?

Nope, cheap, haughty hypocrite suck with a misplaced sense of righteousness still applies nicely. Oh, and a little ugly on the side too.

[charter.rights]

You truly believe that a chief of a band with less than 100 members deserves $240,000 per year? Interesting...

I believe they deserve to be compensated... perhaps like a mayor of a town would... since the work is comparable. But $240,000 is just bilking taxpayers.

First of all the Band has over 300 members. However, the work required for 150 as a Chief is the same as 3500. Same issues. Same paperwork to be filled out and perhaps even more time would be required traveling to Ottawa or the capital of any province lobbying for additional funds.

I would admit that $240k seems a tad high but considering that it is not just a salary but includes all kinds of other reimbursable expenses I don't think that it is out of line for the job. I know myself that the Financial Corporations that I sit on the Board of Directors (I am a volunteer) incurred about $25,000 each last year for my service on the board (training, Per Diem, travel to special meetings and executive expenses) certainly isn't part of my income in any form or fashion. So I can sympathize that their travel to Ottawa for a week's stay can add up especially when it has to be done 5 or 6 times a year. So really $240k is not that much more than the mayor of Anytown, Ontario once the full expenses are factored in.

[The_Squid]

If you were truly concerned about how our taxes were being spent you would be focusing on the mis-spending of the Conservative government. There are hundreds of examples.

No. you concern is nothing more that using FN as an easy target and leaving the realy tough issues up to those of us with some balls to do something about it.

You haven't a clue what I focus on... do you?

And this IS how the Cons are mis-spending our tax dollars. One of the many ways. And one that needs drastic change. Oversight of First Nations spending would be a good start. Some enforcement when taxpayers money is mis-spent by these chiefs and council is only a start.

These salaries are also completely income tax exempt too... so $240,000 is the equivelent of someone making about $430,000.

Did you read how the one councillor of the same band made $718,000 from snow clearing contracts? This reserve is tiny. They must get snow 14 months per year!! Taxpayers are being ripped off and so are the other citizens that live on the reserve. Some of this money came from the band's commercial revenues. Money that should be spread amongst the community, that is instead going to a select cabal of "leaders".

You guys are defending the indefensible! In your zeal to defend First Nations' rights, you are defending the rip-off of First Nations citizens by a greedy few.

Edited December 3, 2010 by The_Squid

[Shwa]

]You truly believe that a chief of a band with less than 100 members deserves $240,000 per year? Interesting...

What is really interesting is that you repeated fail to read - when it is clearly noted in the article is that the band actually has something like 300+ members.

Ms. Clarke runs a reserve of 87 people. The first nation also includes another 217 living off-reserve.

I believe they deserve to be compensated... perhaps like a mayor of a town would... since the work is comparable. But $240,000 is just bilking taxpayers.

I believe more or less what her fellow band members believe which is also clearly noted in the OP article. As for a morality play on bilking taxpayers, if you think 243k is a bit much, you need to get out from behind the shed Fud, there's a whole lotta bilking going on out there and it ain't just the Indians. Senators, for example...

[Shwa]

You haven't a clue what I focus on... do you?

...

You guys are defending the indefensible!

lolwut??! ROFL!

[The_Squid]

What is really interesting is that you repeated fail to read - when it is clearly noted in the article is that the band actually has something like 300+ members.

Less than 100 live on-reserve. Most live off reserve.

Senators, for example...

I agree... lots of bilking. Senators and some FIrst Nations chiefs and council alike.

[charter.rights]

You haven't a clue what I focus on... do you?

And this IS how the Cons are mis-spending our tax dollars. One of the many ways. And one that needs drastic change. Oversight of First Nations spending would be a good start. Some enforcement when taxpayers money is mis-spent by these chiefs and council is only a start.

These salaries are also completely income tax exempt too... so $240,000 is the equivelent of someone making about $430,000.

Did you read how the one councillor of the same band made $718,000 from snow clearing contracts? This reserve is tiny. They must get snow 14 months per year!! Taxpayers are being ripped off and so are the other citizens that live on the reserve. Some of this money came from the band's commercial revenues. Money that should be spread amongst the community, that is instead going to a select cabal of "leaders".

You guys are defending the indefensible! In your zeal to defend First Nations' rights, you are defending the rip-off of First Nations citizens by a greedy few.

You are out of touch on this subject. That is how I know where your loyalties lie (as well as seeing your participation elsewhere).

Accordingly, Sheila Fraser has stated in a number of audits that First Nations are heavily audited - more than any other group in Canada - and that the problem lies not with the First Nations but with INAC who do not either read the reports for months after they are submitted or have failed to act on the issues. The failure is with our government that believes that they are entitled to their entitlements. Band governments are just another department that no one cares about.

[Shwa]

Less than 100 live on-reserve. Most live off reserve.

You truly believe that a chief of a band with less than 100 members deserves $240,000 per year?

So do you understand that the band has more than 300 members or not? Whether they live on or off-reserve isn't the issue.

I agree... lots of bilking. Senators and some FIrst Nations chiefs and council alike.

Except ALL Senators are ripping us off, not all First Nations chiefs and councils are, let's be clear about that.

[The_Squid]

However, the work required for 150 as a Chief is the same as 3500.

Complete and utter nonsense.

I would admit that $240k seems a tad high...

But you'll defend the rip-off anyway, cuz they are First Nations?

They are ripping off their own people as well.... how about defending them???

[charter.rights]

Complete and utter nonsense.

Alas you are out of touch with how things work, or the mounds of paperwork INAC requires to clear a dime.

But you'll defend the rip-off anyway, cuz they are First Nations?

They are ripping off their own people as well.... how about defending them???

It isn't a rip-off. It is a reasonable compensation based on our standards.

And no, they are not ripping off their people. Band administration is paid for by INAC. The band benefits are paid from different budgets and programs that have nothing to do the band administration funding.

Edited December 3, 2010 by charter.rights

[Saipan]

So do you understand that the band has more than 300 members or not? Whether they live on or off-reserve isn't the issue.

True. The issue is those who elected the Chief should pay them.

I didn't vote for any Chief.

[AngusThermopyle]

An interesting take on the situation from someone actually involved with the situation.

Cherie Francis, an outspoken critic of Clarke and the band council, resigned Tuesday morning from her band-sponsored job in the midst of the controversy.

"There are a lot of reasons, but mostly Im just ready to move on," said Francis, 47, supervisor of the Glooscap Variety Store and Gas Bar, where she worked for 14 years.

Francis said she doesnt have much faith in the byelection. More than 70 per cent of the registered band members are spread out across Nova Scotia, Canada and even the United States. "And they dont care," she said. "They just throw their ballots in the garbage. What can we do? We cant force anyone out if we cant get enough people to vote, and its very hard to get that done."

I suppose as an outspoken critic she's just another racist whiner though.

Edited December 3, 2010 by AngusThermopyle

[Shwa]

An interesting take on the situation from someone actually involved with the situation.

Interesting you had to go all the way to a person who is actually involved to try and prop up your limp complaint. Imagine that. No susbstance yourself, let's use someone else, who, by the way, has more of a right to complain than you. Oh wait, the OP article had plenty of that...

I suppose as an outspoken critic she's just another racist whiner though.

Not at all, at least not in comparison to a big suck like you.

[The_Squid]

And no, they are not ripping off their people.

They use funds generated by the band as well to pay the $700,000+ for the one councillor's contracts. This money should be dispersed to the 80 or so members on reserve. That's not a rip-off? Of course it is.