Strippers, escorts should be added to job bank: Ottawa

[grainfedprairieboy]

I mean, is this really necessary?

You will see nothing from me that is derogatory until such time as an adversarial poster draws first blood. I start civil and allow the others to set the tempo and merely match.

I have a relatively small posting history here which should confirm this quickly.

[bloodyminded]

Wow, you are an ugly worthless piece of slime.

Yep, the final hateful remark pretty much clinches the vapidity of the "family values" and "basic decency" and "respect for women" assertions, doesn't it?

[bloodyminded]

You will see nothing from me that is derogatory until such time as an adversarial poster draws first blood. I start civil and allow the others to set the tempo and merely match.

I have a relatively small posting history here which should confirm this quickly.

As every civil person--every civil person--knows, there are areas one simply doesn't enter, no matter the provocation.

Daughters top the list.

I've got two of them. But this is not an invitaiton to your depravity, even if the depravity is a pretence borne out of frustration or anger.

Edited October 14, 2010 by bloodyminded

[grainfedprairieboy]

I think your problem is that you've never met a promiscuous female, or more likely you have, but you found even they had standards.

My point isn't that I wouldn't have any influence, my point is that at 18, she's the boss of her life. I'd be devastated if she became a prostitute. There's a whole host of careers I wouldn't want her doing. But I couldn't stop her if she did want to, no more than I could stop her from other insane behaviors like trying to climb Mount Everest.

It's not my fault the hooker wouldn't take your $20.

Are you trying to make yourself look like a piece of dirt? You don't know me, pal, and I sure don't want to know you.

Because of course every possible career path has a career day at school. You're raving now.

Pal, I wouldn't cross the street to get the advice you offer.

From where I'm standing, I would just become an irrational jerk on the Internet.

Wow, you are an ugly worthless piece of slime.

My oh my but you're a sensitive little fellow ain't ya?

I meant "you" in the royal sense of the word. As in the community itself or base generics. Regardless, I suppose if the shoe fits.............

[bloodyminded]

My oh my but you're a sensitive little fellow ain't ya?

I meant "you" in the royal sense of the word. As in the community itself or base generics. Regardless, I suppose if the shoe fits.............

no, the final remark was decidedly pointed, directly and unequivocally.

Is lying another "conservative value"?

[grainfedprairieboy]

As every civil person--every civil person--knows, there are areas one simply doesn't enter, no matter the provocation.

Daughters top the list.

I've got two of them. But this is not an invitaiton to your depravity, even if the depravity is a pretence borne out of frustration or anger.

I do not know the poster, I do not pretend to know his or her family relations, marital status or sexual predilications for that matter. But I can draw some conclusions fairly quickly.

Regardless, I understand your point and don't necessarily disagree with the spirit, however, to be Frank, I'm not one much to stand around being insulted but for what it's worth, I never carry the grudge from thread to thread.

Edited October 14, 2010 by grainfedprairieboy

[grainfedprairieboy]

no, the final remark was decidedly pointed, directly and unequivocally.

Is lying another "conservative value"?

I reckon so, I consider conservatives and liberals to be essential one in the same. And the final volley was a deliberate smack.

But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here.

Edited October 14, 2010 by grainfedprairieboy

[bloodyminded]

I do not know the poster, I do not pretend to know his or her family relations, marital status or sexual predilications for that matter. But I can draw some conclusions fairly quickly.

Regardless, I understand your point and don't necessarily disagree with the spirit, however, to be Frank, I'm not one much to stand around being insulted but for what it's worth, I never carry the grudge from thread to thread.

I don't stand around and be insulted either; in fact, personally, I think I have gotten a little too harsh on occasion.

But surely there are some limits?

Hell, when I started here, one poster called me a pedophile. I think that, too, is simply unjustified in every case (except to someone who very clearly is one...but few admit it, of course.)

That poster, incidentally, has never forgiven me for his calling me a pedophile, and I am now a proud member of his "ignore" list.

Edited October 14, 2010 by bloodyminded

[Rick]

You will see nothing from me that is derogatory until such time as an adversarial poster draws first blood. I start civil and allow the others to set the tempo and merely match.

I have a relatively small posting history here which should confirm this quickly.

I seem to recall @ CKA you being nothing of the sort. Based on your postings here, not much has changed but ToadBrother and bloodyminded have called it correctly and witnessed that already.

[grainfedprairieboy]

I don't stand around and be insulted either; in fact, personally, I think I have gotten a little too harsh on occasion.

But surely there are some limits?

I have no such social reservations either online or in real life. When you see that asshole berating the cashier for something not her fault while everyone looks sheepishly at the ceiling, I'm the one that comes forward and tells him to piss off.

When it comes to limitations regarding insults I don't see anything as off limits because anyone can choose to ignore another's writings.

Hell, when I started here, one poster called me a pedophile. I think that, too, is simply unjustified in every case (except to someone who very clearly is one...but few admit it, of course.)

Labelling people in order that they feel obligated to defend themselves is generally the first step in acknowledging you have little direction to take in the debate. So if I oppose your view on the age of sexual consent and demand that you defend yourself against my allegations that by extension you are a pedophile looking for a legal loophole clearly I have little to offer to counter your point.

However, if you call me a bible thumping right wing nazi extremist because I disagree with your position then certainly I can use the pedophile pejorative.

(BTW, I am an atheist and still won't buy German or Jap cars)

That poster, incidentally, has never forgiven me for his calling me a pedophile, and I am now a proud member of his "ignore" list.

I shall quickly rise to the top of the fabled ignore list but until such time as you place me there, you will find that I am harsh but I am fair and hopefully in the short term that is both entertaining and refreshing.

[grainfedprairieboy]

I seem to recall @ CKA you being nothing of the sort. Based on your postings here, not much has changed but ToadBrother and bloodyminded have called it correctly and witnessed that already.

I haven't been on CKA since what?........four or five years ago? I obviously left quite an impression on you however you'll forgive me if you are of such little consequence that I don't recognise you.

[dre]

I disagree. I don't want to come off as some holier then thou jackass Green party type but I once was involved with a halfway home for wayward former prostitutes called Exodus House in Calgary back in the 1980s. Here I realised that pretty much every girl involved in the trade had serious issues surrounding family, perceptions of worth of self etc.

I did have a similar position as you (mainstream) but now I have nothing but contempt for any guy who would abuse someone so vulnerable. These girls need help more then most and we seem to turn our backs on them even more. The fantasy of some safe government regulated brothel is just that and the whorehouses of Amsterdam or Nevada are little different then the Escort agencies of Vancouver or Toronto.

We need to revolutionize our thinking as men in this country and start seeing women as beyond sexual objects. That is not to say we should become asexual Victorians or forsake our swing clubs. Lord knows we all need a good menage every now and again. But my experience suggest that prostitutes, strippers and most in the sex trade are far from consenting adults.

The fantasy of some safe government regulated brothel is just that and the whorehouses of Amsterdam or Nevada are little different then the Escort agencies of Vancouver or Toronto.

You just made a good case for legalization.

If our prostitution laws and the mountain of money we dump into them to pay for enforcement/court dont make a difference compared to a country that doesnt waste any of those resources?

I look at this opposite way. If the government wants me to pay for the cost of criminalizing something, they need to make a case for it based on evidence. They have not done so. Criminalization of things like prostitution server absolutely no constructive purpose what-so-ever, and generate no benefit to society what-so-ever.

BTW... I just got back from Amsterdaam and I can tell you that their red light district is a lot nicer than ours. We tend to push prostitutes from the streets of one neighborhood to another... impacting property values as we go, until the residents finally get so pissed off the mayor has police push them into another neighborhood. Then rince and repeat. Or we just let them stay in a single neighborhood and let it go to seed. I didnt see anything like that in Amsterdaam.

[ToadBrother]

I do not know the poster, I do not pretend to know his or her family relations, marital status or sexual predilications for that matter. But I can draw some conclusions fairly quickly.

Like what? Oh tell me, sage one, what conclusions can you draw from my post?

Regardless, I understand your point and don't necessarily disagree with the spirit, however, to be Frank, I'm not one much to stand around being insulted but for what it's worth, I never carry the grudge from thread to thread.

In other words, you don't mind dishing it out, but when it comes to taking it...

[bloodyminded]

However, if you call me a bible thumping right wing nazi extremist because I disagree with your position then certainly I can use the pedophile pejorative.

Whether that's a good point or not, it didn't apply to my case.

however, since I consider the pejorative to be the height of offensiveness, I have determined that anyone who refers to me as one is himself a pedophile, and that it will be loudly and regularly announced. Bullies know no other language.

I shall quickly rise to the top of the fabled ignore list but until such time as you place me there, you will find that I am harsh but I am fair and hopefully in the short term that is both entertaining and refreshing.

I have never put anyone on the ignore list.

Edited October 14, 2010 by bloodyminded

[scribblet]

Not true, completely false they say:

http://www.news1130.com/news/national/article/115122--tories-deny-they-considered-putting-escort-stripper-jobs-on-job-bank-website

[grainfedprairieboy]

If our prostitution laws and the mountain of money we dump into them to pay for enforcement/court dont make a difference compared to a country that doesnt waste any of those resources?

I think any country has a certain responsibility to it's weakest members not to exploit them. So for example, making drugs more available to abusers rather then cleaning them up might seem to be the cheaper and easier way out of the situation a but it doesn't correct the human factor.

Now in regards to prostitution itself, whether we like it or not more girls will be lured into the system through an expanded and legal industry. Further, those that need help will more likely be denied it. Currently I believe that every woman convicted of prostitution should be forced to go through some form of counseling and that outreach efforts should be increased to target those not actively seeking assistance.

It is beyond me that a country as affluent and caring as Canada is so willing to tolerate homelessness, drug addition, indian reservations, prostitution and a variety of other social ills that destroy the lives of so many of our fellow citizens.

In perspective, you read about one woman be murdered by a drive by shooting and you're outraged. 500 indian and metis girls have disappeared from the prairies in a generation but because they were sex trade no one gives a tinkers damn.

I look at this opposite way. If the government wants me to pay for the cost of criminalizing something, they need to make a case for it based on evidence. They have not done so. Criminalization of things like prostitution server absolutely no constructive

purpose what-so-ever, and generate no benefit to society what-so-ever.

All laws, rules and regulations, including those of taxation, are orchestrated to influence, direct or control our behaviour. If the government wants to stop you from buying a gasoline automobile tomorrow all they have to do is place a punitive tax on gasoline and offer rebates on electric cars.

When prostitution is illegal we are afforded the best opportunity to assist those trapped in it and minimise it's influence and

spread. Prostitution will never disappear but made legal it will be every where. Think of gambling in the 1970s which was mostly underground. Today gambling is everywhere, destroys far more lives, and the average casino probably does more business then the whole industry did nationwide a generation ago.

BTW... I just got back from Amsterdaam and I can tell you that their red light district is a lot nicer than ours. We tend to push prostitutes from the streets of one neighborhood to another... impacting property values as we go, until the residents finally get so pissed off the mayor has police push them into another neighborhood. Then rince and repeat. Or we just let them stay in a single neighborhood and let it go to seed. I didnt see anything like that in Amsterdaam.

I haven't been to Amsterdam since 2000 but I don't remember being overly impressed with the window shopping experience.

[grainfedprairieboy]

Like what? Oh tell me, sage one, what conclusions can you draw from my post?

And offend your sensibilities and expedite my trip to your ignore list?

In other words, you don't mind dishing it out, but when it comes to taking it...

In more accurate words: I love to dish it out and sit in anticipation for some jerk off to get the ball rolling for me.

[grainfedprairieboy]

I have never put anyone on the ignore list.

I meant the MLW community & collective ignore list.

[bloodyminded]

In perspective, you read about one woman be murdered by a drive by shooting and you're outraged. 500 indian and metis girls have disappeared from the prairies in a generation but because they were sex trade no one gives a tinkers damn.

Well, women's groups and sex-trade advocates always gave a damn, and as loudly as they could, but were ignored.

In fact, bringing the trade out of the underground could conceivably improve this plainly prejudicial political/social negation of these women's basic humanity.

[ToadBrother]

And offend your sensibilities and expedite my trip to your ignore list?

I have never put anybody on a Ignore list. Not even sure I know how.

Strikes me that you've come this far, but don't have the balls to come and say what you want to say.

[grainfedprairieboy]

Well, women's groups and sex-trade advocates always gave a damn, and as loudly as they could, but were ignored.

In fact, bringing the trade out of the underground could conceivably improve this plainly prejudicial political/social negation of these women's basic humanity.

Though I see your perspective tell me how that has worked for night shift convenience store workers or taxi drivers or any other segment of society that deals with human garbage on a routine basis but not on the government payroll like police, medical staff etc?

You legalise this industry you turn your back on it while it expands plain and simple.

[grainfedprairieboy]

I have never put anybody on a Ignore list. Not even sure I know how.

I'm just mocking your type.

Strikes me that you've come this far, but don't have the balls to come and say what you want to say.

There's something I'm not often accused of. OK, I'll bite.....what haven't I the brass to express IYHO?

[scribblet]

How about getting back to the topic, and the fact that the gov't says it isn't true !!!

[bloodyminded]

Though I see your perspective tell me how that has worked for night shift convenience store workers or taxi drivers or any other segment of society that deals with human garbage on a routine basis but not on the government payroll like police, medical staff etc?

In all sincerity, I don't get what you mean here.

You legalise this industry you turn your back on it while it expands plain and simple.

Well, we already turn our backs on it, so even if you're right, it's not a step back; and simultaneously, you won't give people criminal charges for something that is, in essence, a basic right: to sell sexual favours.

Worse case scenario? In my opinion, similar problems to what we have now, but fewer convictions. So the worst-case scenario, while not a win-win, is nevertheless a single win, one step better than currently.

[dre]

I think any country has a certain responsibility to it's weakest members not to exploit them. So for example, making drugs more available to abusers rather then cleaning them up might seem to be the cheaper and easier way out of the situation a but it doesn't correct the human factor.

Now in regards to prostitution itself, whether we like it or not more girls will be lured into the system through an expanded and legal industry. Further, those that need help will more likely be denied it. Currently I believe that every woman convicted of prostitution should be forced to go through some form of counseling and that outreach efforts should be increased to target those not actively seeking assistance.

It is beyond me that a country as affluent and caring as Canada is so willing to tolerate homelessness, drug addition, indian reservations, prostitution and a variety of other social ills that destroy the lives of so many of our fellow citizens.

In perspective, you read about one woman be murdered by a drive by shooting and you're outraged. 500 indian and metis girls have disappeared from the prairies in a generation but because they were sex trade no one gives a tinkers damn.

All laws, rules and regulations, including those of taxation, are orchestrated to influence, direct or control our behaviour. If the government wants to stop you from buying a gasoline automobile tomorrow all they have to do is place a punitive tax on gasoline and offer rebates on electric cars.

When prostitution is illegal we are afforded the best opportunity to assist those trapped in it and minimise it's influence and

spread. Prostitution will never disappear but made legal it will be every where. Think of gambling in the 1970s which was mostly underground. Today gambling is everywhere, destroys far more lives, and the average casino probably does more business then the whole industry did nationwide a generation ago.

I haven't been to Amsterdam since 2000 but I don't remember being overly impressed with the window shopping experience.

I think any country has a certain responsibility to it's weakest members not to exploit them.

I've seen no evidence at all that these laws do anthing to prevent this exploitation. The only difference they make is that prostitutes are working in the back of Willy Pictons car instead in a legal environment where they can hire security, report crimes to police, ect.

In perspective, you read about one woman be murdered by a drive by shooting and you're outraged. 500 indian and metis girls have disappeared from the prairies in a generation but because they were sex trade no one gives a tinkers damn.

Yup. And criminalization did nothing to stop this, and in fact makes it worse. When you criminalize a business with established demand all youre doing is putting that business in the hands of organized criminals instead of in the hands of regulated tax paying business people.

When prostitution is illegal we are afforded the best opportunity to assist those trapped in it and minimise it's influence and

spread.

The exact opposite is true. When prostitution is illegal prostitutes are afraid to ask anyone for help. Criminalization is the very worst way to get a group to open up and get help from society. An example of this is the legalization of drugs in portugal... Once drugs were decriminalized the number of people in treatment programs rose by almost 400 percent. Social stigmitization is absolutely the worst thing you can do if you want people to accept help.

You have provided not a single shred of evidence why I, as a taxpayer would want to fund these laws. And some of your assumptions are assbackwards from reality.

And this is why Abolishionists are losing the battle and most Canadians want to take another look at these kinds of laws, and the flimsy logic used to support them. Youve sold us a false bill of goods, and people are pretty much done buying it.