Israeli Innovation Beats Arab Oil

[jbg]

Warren Buffett, as part of this video, discusses Israel's entroprenurial spirit and integrity. In fact, he describes it as the only Mideast stop with integrity and industry. View here:

Edited September 14, 2010 by jbg

[season331]

Shortly after the Marines rolled into Baghdad and tore down a statue of Saddam Hussein, I visited the Ministry of Oil. American troops surrounded the sand-colored building, protecting it like a strategic jewel. But not far away, looters were relieving the National Museum of its actual jewels. Baghdad had become a carnival of looting. A few dozen Iraqis who worked at the Oil Ministry were gathered outside the American cordon, and one of them, noting the protection afforded his workplace and the lack of protection everywhere else, remarked to me, "It is all about oil."

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pyramid | fun word game

[Post To The Left]

Israel's entrepreneurial spirit and integrity is a result of its democratic society and the freedoms it provides to Israeli citizens. Arab countries, due to their oil, have for generations been exploited and oppressed by first colonial powers such as Ottoman, French, and British Empires. Then after the Arab countries were granted or won their independence they were exploited by a new type of colonialism via the Soviet and American power plays during the cold war that installed and supported horrible dictators in countries like Egypt and Iraq. These native tyrants suppressed any type of personal freedoms that would spark entrepreneurial spirit as they viewed these advances as a threat to their power. Where as other countries like Iran, in a type of Blowback, the American puppet was overthrown for a new type of dictatorship in the form of the Islamic Republic. If the Arab countries were allowed to develop in the freedom that Israel and its Jewish citizens enjoyed then they too would be as innovative. One only has to look at Arabs that move to nations that have democratic freedoms to see successful, entrepreneurial individuals.

[jbg]

If the Arab countries were allowed to develop in the freedom that Israel and its Jewish citizens enjoyed then they too would be as innovative. One only has to look at Arabs that move to nations that have democratic freedoms to see successful, entrepreneurial individuals.

What's stopping them?

The Americans won their freedom by their lonesome. Why are the Arabs so tolerant of corrupt and oppressive garbage?

[Post To The Left]

What's stopping them?

The Americans won their freedom by their lonesome. Why are the Arabs so tolerant of corrupt and oppressive garbage?

The Americans never had to deal with the sheer brutality of first their colonial (Britain, France) oppressors and then later these American backed or formerly Soviet backed Arab rulers. When the Arabs tried to raise up in Iraq they were literally gassed into submission by the British. Then later Arab leaders came to power in one way or another which were then propped up by huge amounts of American or Soviet aid even though their suppression of both human rights and entrepreneurial spirit (via state planned economies) was horrible. America or the Soviets could have used their support to change the oppressive nature of these regimes but instead just handed over incredible amounts of aid that propped up these oppressive states. It is doubtful that they could survived without this money or could survive now as many states regimes are still funded by American tax payer money (Egypt still gets billions a year to keep the regime in power).

[jbg]

The Americans never had to deal with the sheer brutality of first their colonial (Britain, France) oppressors and then later these American backed or formerly Soviet backed Arab rulers.

Who do you think our first colonials were?

And second of all, I reformatted the opening post so that the media is viewable.

[Post To The Left]

Who do you think our first colonials were?

British technology to oppress its colonial subjects had progressed light years from late 1700s to Iraq War of Independence in the 1920s. Not to mention Britain's use of kiddy gloves when dealing with "English" colonies like American and Canada but using the intense brutal total war methods with other races i.e. Genocide in Kenya, Gassing innocent Iraqi civilians in the British Mandate of Iraq.

[DogOnPorch]

British technology to oppress its colonial subjects had progressed light years from late 1700s to Iraq War of Independence in the 1920s. Not to mention Britain's use of kiddy gloves when dealing with "English" colonies like American and Canada but using the intense brutal total war methods with other races i.e. Genocide in Kenya, Gassing innocent Iraqi civilians in the British Mandate of Iraq.

So much 4 that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolutionary_War

[Post To The Left]

So much 4 that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolutionary_War

So you're comparing a campaign where the British military by and large only targeted the American army (killing 8000 soldiers in combat throughout the American Revolutionary War) to the British massacres of the Boers, Indians, Kenyans and of course the brutal oppression of Arab nations and use of poison gas to suppress Arab attempts of independence in Iraq?

[DogOnPorch]

So you're comparing a campaign where the British military by and large only targeted the American army (killing 8000 soldiers in combat throughout the American Revolutionary War) to the British massacres of the Boers, Indians, Kenyans and of course the brutal oppression of Arab nations and use of poison gas to suppress Arab attempts of independence in Iraq?

Yup. Are you some sort of relativist? Just because the Brits lost doesn't mean they didn't try.

Edited September 14, 2010 by DogOnPorch

[Post To The Left]

I never said that the British didn't try. The British during the American Revolution tread lightly with the civilian population of the American colonies as by some estimates only about 30% of the population supported the Americans the rest being either neutral or pro-British. The conduct of the American War didn't include the gassing of civilian populations or genocide against the natives as it the case with other British wars against non-AngloSaxon peoples.

[Post To The Left]

But think what you're saying. The Americans overthrew the British because at the time of the American revolutionary war the art of war was fairly equal for any army. Buy some muskets seize some artillery and you have an army. The American revolutionary war was one of two fairly equal forces fighting each other.

There is no way you can compare that with Arab nations trying to force off the colonial yoke against brutal British oppression (that wasn't present during the American war) and a huge advantage with the British and French colonial forces fighting with modern armies and weapons like poisonous gas.

[DogOnPorch]

Meh...roll of the dice, really. Throughout history bad stuff has happened and will continue to happen. Does our nation or any other nation have the will to overcome such troubles? It's the Darwinian outlook, I suppose. Survive or go under. Life isn't fair. Even Western culture will vanish under the weight of an iconoclastic alien culture if allowed. Who knows? In 100 years we could all be ass-up facing Mecca while looking forward to the afternoon adultress and homosexual public executions.

[Post To The Left]

Meh...roll of the dice, really. Throughout history bad stuff has happened and will continue to happen. Does our nation or any other nation have the will to overcome such troubles? It's the Darwinian outlook, I suppose. Survive or go under. Life isn't fair. Even Western culture will vanish under the weight of an iconoclastic alien culture if allowed. Who knows? In 100 years we could all be ass-up facing Mecca while looking forward to the afternoon adultress and homosexual public executions.

Ummm OK but the point of this thread (before jbg tried to kill it by going off on a tangent about the American Revolutionary war) was that you can't discount the history of the Arab nations. Entrepreneurial spirit depends on a free democratic society something that Arab nations have never really been allowed to experience due to first the colonial exploitation and then cold war power plays that supported corrupt Arab leaders who were only interested in staying in power. Therefore you can't compare Arab nations and Israeli. Individual Arabs are just as entrepreneurial as Israelis for proof all you have to do is look at Arabs living in Western free and democratic societies.

[Bob]

Ummm OK but the point of this thread (before jbg tried to kill it by going off on a tangent about the American Revolutionary war) was that you can't discount the history of the Arab nations. Entrepreneurial spirit depends on a free democratic society something that Arab nations have never really been allowed to experience due to first the colonial exploitation and then cold war power plays that supported corrupt Arab leaders who were only interested in staying in power. Therefore you can't compare Arab nations and Israeli. Individual Arabs are just as entrepreneurial as Israelis for proof all you have to do is look at Arabs living in Western free and democratic societies.

Nah, no other group really compares to our academic and entrepreneurial success. I'll be the first to admit it - we're special.

You're entire position boils down to this: it's not the fault of the Arabs that they live the way they do. It's the natural result of colonialism. That's a carte-blance allowing them to do whatever they want, no matter how you slice it.

[DogOnPorch]

Ummm OK but the point of this thread (before jbg tried to kill it by going off on a tangent about the American Revolutionary war) was that you can't discount the history of the Arab nations. Entrepreneurial spirit depends on a free democratic society something that Arab nations have never really been allowed to experience due to first the colonial exploitation and then cold war power plays that supported corrupt Arab leaders who were only interested in staying in power. Therefore you can't compare Arab nations and Israeli. Individual Arabs are just as entrepreneurial as Israelis for proof all you have to do is look at Arabs living in Western free and democratic societies.

Get rid of Islam and I'm sure the glory that was Babylon, Assyria, Persia, et al, will return.

[Post To The Left]

Get rid of Islam and I'm sure the glory that was Babylon, Assyria, Persia, et al, will return.

So the glory of Ottoman Empire once the leader of the world in math, science, warfare and medicine doesn't count?

[DogOnPorch]

So the glory of Ottoman Empire once the leader of the world in math, science, warfare and medicine doesn't count?

The Ottoman's were a medieval culture...people...etc.

[Post To The Left]

The Ottoman's were a medieval culture...people...etc.

A "medieval culture" in a time when Europe was light years behind them.

[DogOnPorch]

A "medieval culture" in a time when Europe was light years behind them.

Hardly 'light years'. The Ottoman Empire started at the begining of the 14th century when Osman I proclaimed himself sultan...Europe wasn't that much different technology-wise. As for the Ottoman's being 'leaders in warfare': they were adaquate but certainly not dynamic in a way like the Romans or Mongols. While they enjoyed victories like Constantinople they also suffered massive defeats like Lepanto.

[jbg]

Ummm OK but the point of this thread (before jbg tried to kill it by going off on a tangent about the American Revolutionary war) was that you can't discount the history of the Arab nations.

That video is hardly about any favorable "history of the Arab nations". And my "tangent" was in response to a poster who tried to blame the Arabs' backwardness on British brutality as colonizers. I was pointing out that they didn't leave behind a bad legacy in the U.S. Perhaps the brutality related to the tactics some thugs used to fight the British?

[DogOnPorch]

That video is hardly about any favorable "history of the Arab nations". And my "tangent" was in response to a poster who tried to blame the Arabs' backwardness on British brutality as colonizers. I was pointing out that they didn't leave behind a bad legacy in the U.S. Perhaps the brutality related to the tactics some thugs used to fight the British?

Indeed.

Had the Ottoman Turks (and friends) not taken Constantinople in 1453, the Silk Road route to India/China would not have been cut. This event was the main reason for trying to find a sea route to the Orient via the Atlantic...thus kicking-off the age of colonization. Everyone could use a rewatch of 'Connections' (I, II, III)and 'The Day the Universe Changed' for a quick review, perhaps.

[bud]

looks like the doggy on the porch has his wikipedia window open.

[DogOnPorch]

looks like the doggy on the porch has his wikipedia window open.

You hope.

[bloodyminded]

Nah, no other group really compares to our academic and entrepreneurial success. I'll be the first to admit it - we're special.

Despite your best efforts to drag the Jewish people down?

You're entire position boils down to this: it's not the fault of the Arabs that they live the way they do. It's the natural result of colonialism. That's a carte-blance allowing them to do whatever they want, no matter how you slice it.

No, his entire position is that there is a complicated series of historical circumstances.

You're the one who sees the world through a black-and-white prism of Goodness battling the Evil Philistines.

Your view is not Post on the Left's fault.

Edited September 18, 2010 by bloodyminded