Saipan Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 NDP's in my town feel the same way as CPC. All of them hunters. They don't register. Quote
bloodyminded Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 NDP's in my town feel the same way as CPC. All of them hunters. They don't register. Yes, the NDP is trapped between trying to appease two camps within its own support base, at least on this issue. The Conservatives and Liberals can afford to give the middle finger to large swaths of their supporters. It's tougher for the NDP. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
guyser Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) The gun registry places police officers' lives at risk. Thats like saying.....oh I dunno.....pens cause spelling mistakes . Edited January 25, 2011 by guyser Quote
Saipan Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 Thats like saying.....oh I dunno.....pens cause spelling mistakes . Exactly. Guns don't make people violent. Nor do they make people kill themself. Quote
guyser Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 Exactly. Guns don't make people violent. Nor do they make people kill themself. So you think the email from "the RCMP guy" was stupid....why post it then? Quote
madmax Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 Thats like saying.....oh I dunno.....pens cause spelling mistakes . LMFAO!!! Quote
Saipan Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 So you think the email from "the RCMP guy" was stupid....why post it then? You're no any RCMP Quote
Saipan Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 SASKATCHEWAN RCMP OFFICER (Name withheld by Garry Breitkreuz, MP) I am a peace officer with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and am currently posted to the xxxxxxxxxx Detachment. One of my current responsibilities is to train new cadets that have recently graduated from Depot Division by furthering their "hands on" training in the field. I am very concerned about this new Bill regarding firearms registration. I am concerned that if it is not passed in the House that more Mounties may face the same fate as the two young men did within this last month. This firearms registration must be abolished once and for all! I find that I have to deprogram every cadet that I train when it comes to CFRO checks and their reliability in regards to officer safety. One dark evening, myself and a newly graduated cadet had to visit a residence of someone suspected of a violent crime. The cadet told me, rather proudly, that they had conducted a CFRO check on the house and that it showed that there were no firearms present, so we would not have to worry. I scolded his ignorance and naivety. I told him to stop and think about that for a moment. I said, "Do you honestly think that someone who is already living a criminal lifestyle and is in possession of firearms has any intention of registering them?" I told him to never place any faith in the registry and most of all, never trust that notion that just because nothing is registered to an individual then an officer's safety is insured. Conversely also, do not ever believe that just because someone has a firearm registered that they will never use it in the commission of an offence! It does not matter if a gun is registered, if someone is bent on crime they will use a registered or non-registered gun. If no gun is available, they will use something else. In my evaluation, the registry only causes more criminal code infractions (before the amnesty) as police query law abiding citizens' guns to see if they are registered only to find out that they may not be - in spite of the claims that the owner did in fact attempt to register them; or the information on the registration certificate is incorrect, etc. making the gun owner appear negligent. The gun registry places police officers' lives at risk. The gun registry offers a false sense of security. The gun registry is making criminals out of otherwise law-abiding citizens. The gun registry is eating up resources that the RCMP and every other municipal or first nation force desperately need. The gun registry consumes valuable time for the average police officer on the street who has real crime to fight. Saying that the guns are the problem in this society is like saying pens are the cause of spelling errors, or that cars are the cause of drunk driving, or like saying fast food restaurants are the cause of obesity. When will common sense prevail? People need to be held accountable for their actions - whether with firearms, alcohol, vehicles, etc. That is what the Conservatives did with the Liberals when in opposition and then on a larger scale once elected. The gun registry brings justice into disrepute. It is an absolute waste of taxpayers money. The registry does nothing to fight the crime issues in this country. Please do everything possible to make sure that this Bill passes. SOURCE: Personal E-Mail to Garry Breitkreuz, MP dated November 17, 2007. Quote
segnosaur Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 The gun registry places police officers' lives at risk. Thats like saying.....oh I dunno.....pens cause spelling mistakes . Ummm... the letter that was quoted gave specific reasons why the author felt that it "places lives at risk"... For example, from the letter: The gun registry offers a false sense of security....The gun registry is eating up resources that the RCMP and every other municipal or first nation force desperately need. Do you have any specific counter arguments to those particular claims? Or is your only way to debate the issue is to dismiss it with inaccurate analogies? Quote
guyser Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) Ummm... the letter that was quoted gave specific reasons why the author felt that it "places lives at risk"... For example, from the letter: The gun registry offers a false sense of security....The gun registry is eating up resources that the RCMP and every other municipal or first nation force desperately need. Specific reasons? Those a re not reasons at all, and even if they were real they would be lame reasons.That cop is an idiot if he thinks people are going to buy that. Do you have any specific counter arguments to those particular claims? Or is your only way to debate the issue is to dismiss it with inaccurate analogies? How about I deal with the gist of his argument, not his lame reasoning. The gun registry puts officers lives at risk....so does the registry stalk cops during the night and shoot them? Does it spike their donuts? The registry is merely a piece of paper, a couple of 1's and 0's on a data base. It certainly cant put anyone at risk, unless a paper cut is a problem. I bet you think I support the registry? Nope. Edited January 25, 2011 by guyser Quote
segnosaur Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 Do you have any specific counter arguments to those particular claims? Or is your only way to debate the issue is to dismiss it with inaccurate analogies? How about I deal with the gist of his argument, not his lame reasoning. You haven't really dealt with anything... Hint: Labeling something as "lame" and hand-waving away any arguments is not really "dealing with the gist of an argument". The gun registry puts officers lives at risk....so does the registry stalk cops during the night and shoot them? Does it spike their donuts?The registry is merely a piece of paper, a couple of 1's and 0's on a data base. It certainly cant put anyone at risk, unless a paper cut is a problem. Ummm... you do realize that that database is not exactly free... money gets spent on maintaining the computers themselves, paying for data entry, updating the software, etc. Believe it or not, we do not have unlimited resources in this country. Every dollar spent on maintaining a registry that has little or no value means limited funds for things like additional officers, better equipment, etc. (things that actually could make a difference). Unless you think computers run on magical pixie dust and good intentions. A good analogy would be the cancer sufferer who decides to give up chemo and radiation treatments in favor of quack treatments like herbal treatments and homeopathy. Those other treatments may not necessarily be killing the patient directly, but using them means that the patient is not using treatments that are effective. There's also something called the Pelzman effect... a habit us humans have where we increase certain risky behavior after safety measures have been brought into effect. (e.g. drivers with ABS breaks may drive faster, and thus negate any safety benefit.) Quote
Oleg Bach Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 JUDGES are the only weapons we really need...If we had a justice system..that was just - and men and woman with the title YOUR HONOUR...who have no honour...had some...there would be no need for registry of long guns - short guns - sharp sticks or fist size tossing rocks...People get out of shape...and go bonkers when they are frustrated...we must have a system that grants satisfaction to the offended...Instead there are just a bunch of smiling hetro phag men and woman sitting in black robes being stupid - thinking they are important because someone told them so. Quote
Saipan Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 That cop is an idiot if he thinks people are going to buy that. Yes, some are. They think that if 75 year old handgun registration didn't accomplish anything the LONG firearm registration will So goes for most liberals. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 Yes, some are. They think that if 75 year old handgun registration didn't accomplish anything the LONG firearm registration will So goes for most liberals. Yes for us old school guys - we would transport the shot gun and 22 as kids - we would never dare possess a hand gun..we were conditioned that it was illegal..and we obeyed the law.....and even as children we never would possess the thought of pointing a fire arm at a human being - NEVER..but it is a different world now..and the average project black knows nothing of nature ...of country side...or guns ...all he knows is what was shown to him via media..which is not good. Quote
Saipan Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 Those young blacks watch too many movies. AND they think it's all real. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 Those young blacks watch too many movies. AND they think it's all real. NOT just the blacks...yah - they do think it's real...when you watch more media than real life - media is your life and your values come from what you do most - habitualism...forms....it's strikes me as odd that my kid who briefly attened an urban school was threatened with a gun..because he actually was courteous ...and that was taken as "disrespect" - His math teacher said that my boy at the time as "at risk" acedemically speaking...I say he was at risk being in that shit hole school...He asked if he could drop out - I said - do what is right and he did...he walked away from the shit hole. It would have been a matter of time --that some hooligan would have harmed him for being blonde and blue eyed. Quote
guyser Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) You haven't really dealt with anything... Other than ascribe he is an idiot for saying that? Why bother, it stops there. The gun registry is paper/data , so no, it cannot harm his brothers. Hint: Labeling something as "lame" and hand-waving away any arguments is not really "dealing with the gist of an argument". Except when it is. There is no argument , and frankly you will embarass yourself if you try, much like that cop is. Ummm... you do realize that that database is not exactly free... money gets spent on maintaining the computers themselves, paying for data entry, updating the software, etc. Believe it or not, we do not have unlimited resources in this country. Every dollar spent on maintaining a registry that has little or no value means limited funds for things like additional officers, better equipment, etc. (things that actually could make a difference). Unless you think computers run on magical pixie dust and good intentions. So you are saying that money spent in Ottawa for the database is stealing funds for the City of Nelson BC's Police force and putting them in harms way? I sure hope your aren't. A good analogy would be the cancer sufferer who decides to give up chemo and radiation treatments in favor of quack treatments like herbal treatments and homeopathy. Those other treatments may not necessarily be killing the patient directly, but using them means that the patient is not using treatments that are effective. Huh? I do hopoe you arent as stupid as saipan. I doubt that but anyway, the argument is.....does a piece of paper/data kille police men? Nope, not today yesterday tomoorrow, and it will never, oh oh save for a paper cut on the jugular (never say never) occur. Edited January 25, 2011 by guyser Quote
Saipan Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 SERGEANT BOB COTTINGHAM - LETHBRIDGE, ALBERTA Not once, however, during my career do I recall using the gun registry to solve a major crime. Simply put, the vast majority of criminals use firearms which don't come close to being included in this bureaucratic jumble of information. Letter-writer Wendy Cukier may also be disappointed to know that I observed that most front-line officers have little faith in the gun registry, and see it as another bloated and failed attempt by the former government to appease its constituents. SOURCE: National Post, "Former cop says drop the gun registry", Page A17, July 27, 2006 Quote
Saipan Posted January 25, 2011 Report Posted January 25, 2011 A.B.J. (BEN) BEATTY: 23-YEAR VETERAN OF THE ONTARIO PROVINCIAL POLICE In June of 2006 I will be commencing my 24th year as a member of the Ontario Provincial Police. For 18 of those years I have been assigned the rank of Detective, specifically assigned to major criminal investigations. I must point out that in all my experience as a police officer I have only investigated one homicide were a firearm was the weapon used in the slaying. In contrast, the majority of murders that I have been involved in as an investigator, a knives were preferred and two separate occasions a hammer was the weapon of choice. I have however been involved in the investigation of countless offences such as robbery, where handguns were the weapon of choice and I must point out Sir, that the firearms registry did not assist in solving one, nor obviously in deterring one. The reasons that the firearms registry is so highly ineffectual are, I believe obvious, but basically it affects the wrong people, law abiding citizens and not criminals. [READ MORE] http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/2006_new/54.htm SOURCE: Letter to all MPs dated April 5, 2006 Quote
Saipan Posted January 26, 2011 Report Posted January 26, 2011 LEN GRINNELL, RETIRED RCMP STAFF-SARGEANT As you have already responded to the position of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police (CACP) in this regard, I offer my wholehearted agreement. As a retired member of the RCMP, who supervised police officers in Canada's largest Detachments, I have grave concerns about the reliance on the registry for data which could result in death or injury of a police officer. Accepting the premise that criminals will not register guns, one has to wonder how that would affect approaching a residence or premises that had been checked with the registry and found "no firearms present"? In the case of a "hit" that indicates the residence in question is owned by a lawful firearms owner, what approach would the police take. My experience has told me that the greatest hazard to police officers is complacence and I found it prudent to continually remind my staff of that fact. Relying on a flawed system for officer safety will eventually lead to a tragedy. It is unfortunate that the CACP did not take the time to consider the consequences of their position and the safety of the men and women they represent. SOURCE: E-Mail to Garry Breitkreuz, MP dated February 1, 2006 Quote
Saipan Posted January 26, 2011 Report Posted January 26, 2011 ERIC W. FERGUSON, Retired Chief of Police and RCMP Officer I was 75 years of age on Dec. 31, 2005. Part of my life's story was serving 24 years with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and four years as Police Chief for the City of Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada. For the past six or seven years I have stood by and watched the Liberal Government of Canada mishandle gun control and in the process not save one life, but encouraging criminals to commit more offences and yes, help to turn good honest Canadians into criminals. Now Prime Minister your plan to banish all handguns is real "dumb." Sir, have you not figured out yet, that criminals do not register their guns, not now or in the future? Your political plan will not save one life! SOURCE: Moncton Times and Transcript Letter: "Prime Minister had his chance and failed", Page D8, January 4, 2006 Quote
Saipan Posted January 26, 2011 Report Posted January 26, 2011 SASKATCHEWAN RCMP OFFICER "I met with an RCMP officer this week who was told by his superiors to stop sending requests to the gun registry before attending domestic disputes because he 'was putting his life in danger'. The RCMP officer was told the usual 'no guns' response to his query 'creates a false sense of security'. The young officer was also told that if he ever criticized the gun registry publicly his career would be over," reported Breitkreuz. SOURCE: MP Garry Breitkreuz's News Release dated December 15, 2005 - Name withheld at the officer's request Quote
bloodyminded Posted January 26, 2011 Report Posted January 26, 2011 SASKATCHEWAN RCMP OFFICER "I met with an RCMP officer this week who was told by his superiors to stop sending requests to the gun registry before attending domestic disputes because he 'was putting his life in danger'. The RCMP officer was told the usual 'no guns' response to his query 'creates a false sense of security'. The young officer was also told that if he ever criticized the gun registry publicly his career would be over," reported Breitkreuz. SOURCE: MP Garry Breitkreuz's News Release dated December 15, 2005 - Name withheld at the officer's request I think you've made your point, in multiple posts, through carpet bombing. More of it is not needed. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Saipan Posted January 26, 2011 Report Posted January 26, 2011 You're free to ignore evidence and scroll by. Quote
bloodyminded Posted January 26, 2011 Report Posted January 26, 2011 You're free to ignore evidence and scroll by. I am ignoring the evidence. Everybody is, or will soon, when they see it's the same-old same-old, whether they agree with your stance on this matter or not. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
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