Bonam Posted June 30, 2010 Report Posted June 30, 2010 Thats not a question worth answering. If you dont see a difference between a multinational force even handedly applying the law to both sides, and a nation using its military to expand its borders and get access to resources, then were pretty much going to have to leave it at that. Israel's borders and the areas it occupies have been shrinking, not expanding, since 1967. Applying the law "evenhandedly" is impossible - people on both sides would always find cases to illustrate real or supposed bias. Additionally we have seen how badly multinational forces have failed at these kinds of efforts, such as in Lebanon. Quote
naomiglover Posted June 30, 2010 Report Posted June 30, 2010 Israel's borders and the areas it occupies have been shrinking, not expanding, since 1967. Is that so? Which borders exactly? What about the population? Let us look at the population change: West Bank Settler population: 1972: 1,182 1983: 22,800 1993: 111,600 2004: 234,487 2007: 276,462 2009: 304,569 Gaza Settler population: 1972: 700 2004: 7,826 2009: 0 Golan Heights settler population: 1983: 6,800 2009: 20,000 East Jerusalem settler population: 1972: 8,649 1993: 152,800 2009: 192,000 Overall Israeli settlement population: 1972: 10,608 2004: 441,165 2009: 516,569 Despite removing 7000 settlers (and relocating them in the West Bank) by law, Israel continues to occupy Gaza, as recognized by the international community. Quote Jewish Voice for Peace Canadians for Justice and Peace in the Middle East
segnosaur Posted June 30, 2010 Report Posted June 30, 2010 I dont see that as being a problem, and I think that if a multi national force is enforcing the law fairly the vast majority of palestinians will support that force, and Hamas wont stay relevant for long. Ummmm.. just out of curiosity, what exactly makes you assume that "Hamas won't stay relevant for long"? They're a terrorist group. They care only about their own goals, and the people of Palestine are just an afterthought. What makes you think that they'll just disappear? I see, so you don't see dead Palestinian civilians as "being a problem". So why are they a problem when they happen to be killed by Israel rather than a "multi national force"? Thats not a question worth answering. Actually the question is very worth answering. If you dont see a difference between a multinational force even handedly applying the law to both sides, and a nation using its military to expand its borders and get access to resources, then were pretty much going to have to leave it at that. The false assumption here seems to be that the only use of the Israeli military has been to 'expand its borders'. Yet their actions in Gaza gained them no territory. I also don't think you quite understand how little support there would be among the populations of various countries in the world to supplying peacekeepers, and that support would likely plumit at the first sign of civilian casualties. Quote
dre Posted June 30, 2010 Report Posted June 30, 2010 Ummmm.. just out of curiosity, what exactly makes you assume that "Hamas won't stay relevant for long"? They're a terrorist group. They care only about their own goals, and the people of Palestine are just an afterthought. What makes you think that they'll just disappear? They get support from Palestinians by constantly using Israel, and the occupation and blockade as a scapegoat and boogeyman. It will be a LOT harder for them to do this once the occupation is over and the blockade is gone. I also don't think you quite understand how little support there would be among the populations of various countries in the world to supplying peacekeepers, and that support would likely plumit at the first sign of civilian casualties. Im not saying I think this is likely to happen. It absolutely wont happen. This conflict wont ever be resolved, you can take that to the bank. In fact... it will escalate into a broader regional conflict over the next decade or so as the region continues getting drier. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Bonam Posted June 30, 2010 Report Posted June 30, 2010 Is that so? Which borders exactly? The Sinai, Southern Lebanon, and Gaza. Quote
Bonam Posted June 30, 2010 Report Posted June 30, 2010 They get support from Palestinians by constantly using Israel, and the occupation and blockade as a scapegoat and boogeyman. It will be a LOT harder for them to do this once the occupation is over and the blockade is gone. No they could just switch to using the multinational occupation as the new bogeyman. Im not saying I think this is likely to happen. It absolutely wont happen. This conflict wont ever be resolved, you can take that to the bank. In fact... it will escalate into a broader regional conflict over the next decade or so as the region continues getting drier. The solution you propose won't happen, but the conflict will certainly be resolved sooner or later. Nothing lasts forever, not even conflicts. It may take a decade, a century, a thousand years, or a million years, but eventually the conflict will be over with. Fighting it out in a "broader regional conflict" is certainly one form of resolution. Quote
dre Posted June 30, 2010 Report Posted June 30, 2010 No they could just switch to using the multinational occupation as the new bogeyman. The solution you propose won't happen, but the conflict will certainly be resolved sooner or later. Nothing lasts forever, not even conflicts. It may take a decade, a century, a thousand years, or a million years, but eventually the conflict will be over with. Fighting it out in a "broader regional conflict" is certainly one form of resolution. No they could just switch to using the multinational occupation as the new bogeyman. That wouldnt work worth shit. It would be tough for Hamas to demonize a force that had just ejected Israel from the occupied territories and pushed the back onto their own land because exactly what the majority of palestinians want. It may take a decade, a century, a thousand years, or a million years, but eventually the conflict will be over with. Fighting it out in a "broader regional conflict" is certainly one form of resolution. Given the two gangs of morons we are dealing with over there, Im gonna take the "million" option Alex! Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
segnosaur Posted June 30, 2010 Report Posted June 30, 2010 They get support from Palestinians by constantly using Israel, and the occupation and blockade as a scapegoat and boogeyman. It will be a LOT harder for them to do this once the occupation is over and the blockade is gone. However, much of the terrorist funding comes from foreign countries (Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc.) Those will be unaffected by the support within the population. Re: The possibility of demonizing a multinational forceThat wouldnt work worth shit. It would be tough for Hamas to demonize a force that had just ejected Israel from the occupied territories and pushed the back onto their own land because exactly what the majority of palestinians want. Until of course the first civilian palestinian casualty occurs after Hamas tries to launch a rocket from a schoolyard and the multi-national force tries to stop them. Not only that, people have short memories. Its a case of "what have you done for me today"? And of course you're also assuming that enough palistinians just want their own land. Some actually do want all of Israel's territory. And some may be happy allowing Israel to exist, but not like the particulars of the deal. Quote
dre Posted June 30, 2010 Report Posted June 30, 2010 However, much of the terrorist funding comes from foreign countries (Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc.) Those will be unaffected by the support within the population. Until of course the first civilian palestinian casualty occurs after Hamas tries to launch a rocket from a schoolyard and the multi-national force tries to stop them. Not only that, people have short memories. Its a case of "what have you done for me today"? And of course you're also assuming that enough palistinians just want their own land. Some actually do want all of Israel's territory. And some may be happy allowing Israel to exist, but not like the particulars of the deal. Yeah well these are some of the reasons the two parties have not, and will never negotiate a deal themselves. And just so you know its the same on both sides. A lot of Israelis dont believe in a palestians states right to exist either, and want to keep the occupied territories. Thats why the only possible way to resolve the conflict would be through force applied on both sides, and a DMZ between the two sides with millions of land mines and a permanent contingent of foreign troops. When you have two belligerent retard-children fighting over the same sandbox and the same dinky cars you need to separate them somehow. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
naomiglover Posted July 2, 2010 Report Posted July 2, 2010 (edited) The Sinai, Southern Lebanon, and Gaza. They were never part of Israel to begin with. Not sure what you mean by Israel's borders are shrinking. Edited July 2, 2010 by naomiglover Quote Jewish Voice for Peace Canadians for Justice and Peace in the Middle East
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